Free 7 Day Trial RV GPS App RV Trip Planner Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Free 7 Day Trial ×
 


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 04-03-2018, 08:27 AM   #1
4 Rivet Member
 
1964 24' Tradewind
Lawrence , Kansas
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 290
Replacing 2 prong electrical outlets.

I am going to replace my two-prong electrical outlets with three-prong outlets in my 64 Tradewind. Should I run a ground wire from the three-prong outlet ground to the outlet box just like you would if your were replaceing outlets in your house? Thanks in advance!
ttbikes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2018, 11:16 AM   #2
Rivet Master

 
2007 22' International CCD
Corona , California
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 8,863
Absolutely run a dedicated ground wire. It should be connected to a single point ground buss in your electrical breaker box that is bonded to the trailer shell and frame. The 120 volt neutral (usually white wire) should be connected to an isolated neutral bussbar that only connects to the shore power neutral connector. This is code for trailers. Neutral and ground (safety earth) are NOT and must not be connected inside the trailer power panel unlike house wiring.
__________________
Rich, KE4GNK/AE, Overkill Engineering Dept.
'The Silver HamShack' ('07 International 22FB CCD 75th Anniversary)
Multiple Yaesu Ham Radios inside and many antennae sprouting from roof, ProPride hitch, Prodigy P2 controller.
2012 shortbed CrewMax 4x4 Toyota Tacoma TV with more antennae on it.
rmkrum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2018, 12:44 PM   #3
Rivet Master
 
1976 31' Sovereign
Oswego , Illinois
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,950
Blog Entries: 1
A old electricion showed me a trick when using romex wiring. Whip bare ground wire in romex around romex install in metal box this will create ground, then install 3 prong outlet instead of fastening to outlet. When doing large jobs saves lots time.
featherbedder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2018, 12:58 PM   #4
4 Rivet Member
 
1964 24' Tradewind
Lawrence , Kansas
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 290
rmkrum, I am not sure we are communicating. I have no way to run a dictated wire to the breaker box. This is a vintage tailer with just two wires and I am not replacing the wiring. In a house, you would run a wire to metal electrical outlet box from the neutral on the electrical outlet (If the wire was in conduit, I believe). So in my trailer case, from what I think you are saying, I should just leave the natural pole on the electrical outlet bare. I am changing the outlets so I do not have to use a two prong adapter.
ttbikes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2018, 01:20 PM   #5
4 Rivet Member
 
1964 24' Tradewind
Lawrence , Kansas
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 290
I will take back part of what I said below. I went out and pulled a couple of outlets and the outlet does have what appears to be a ground wire attached to the screw that holds the outlets in place. I assume this wire acts as the ground. Should this wire be attached to the ground on the the 3 prong outlet or should it remain attached at the screw holding the outlet in place? Sorry for any confusion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ttbikes View Post
rmkrum, I am not sure we are communicating. I have no way to run a dictated wire to the breaker box. This is a vintage tailer with just two wires and I am not replacing the wiring. In a house, you would run a wire to metal electrical outlet box from the neutral on the electrical outlet (If the wire was in conduit, I believe). So in my trailer case, from what I think you are saying, I should just leave the natural pole on the electrical outlet bare. I am changing the outlets so I do not have to use a two prong adapter.
ttbikes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2018, 01:49 PM   #6
Rivet Master

 
2007 22' International CCD
Corona , California
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 8,863
That ground lead should be attached to the green screw (safety earth or ground) on the new outlets. Good that they put them in.

The silver screw is neutral (usually white wire) and the brass or black screw is the hot lead, usually black wire. The face slot for the hot side of a standard outlet is a bit shorter than the neutral slot.
__________________
Rich, KE4GNK/AE, Overkill Engineering Dept.
'The Silver HamShack' ('07 International 22FB CCD 75th Anniversary)
Multiple Yaesu Ham Radios inside and many antennae sprouting from roof, ProPride hitch, Prodigy P2 controller.
2012 shortbed CrewMax 4x4 Toyota Tacoma TV with more antennae on it.
rmkrum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2018, 03:41 PM   #7
4 Rivet Member
 
1964 24' Tradewind
Lawrence , Kansas
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 290
That is good news and leads me to another question. Can (or should) a GFIC outlet be added to both my 15 amp circuits?
ttbikes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2018, 08:38 AM   #8
2 Rivet Member
 
1965 24' Tradewind
Chestertown , Maryland
Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 25
Make sure to run a simple test from the box to ground. Just to make sure!
jcslocum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2018, 10:34 AM   #9
Rivet Master
 
gklott's Avatar
 
2004 30' Classic
Johnson City , Texas
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 590
Images: 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by ttbikes View Post
That is good news and leads me to another question. Can (or should) a GFIC outlet be added to both my 15 amp circuits?
Yes, if it will fit safely in the box, and the box has a ground wire that connects back to the isolated safety ground in your breaker panel. GFCI is always a good idea. Every AC circuit in our trailer is now AFCI/GFCI.

73/gus
__________________
Gus - KR4K : Mary - K5MCL
2004 30ft. Classic
2017 Infiniti QX80 Limited
ProPride 3P/Prodigy P3
gklott is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2018, 10:45 AM   #10
2 Rivet Member
 
2010 20' Flying Cloud
Clearwater , British Columbia
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 24
With respect to the GFCI, what's the opinion on investing in a 15A GFCI breaker for an entire circuit vs installing individual GFCI outlets (or perhaps location the first outlet on a circuit and installing a single GFCI oulet to protect the rest of the outlet on that circuit - assuming you know the wiring schematic)?
BCMtnHound is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2018, 11:53 AM   #11
4 Rivet Member
 
1964 24' Tradewind
Lawrence , Kansas
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 290
Quote:
Originally Posted by BCMtnHound View Post
With respect to the GFCI, what's the opinion on investing in a 15A GFCI breaker for an entire circuit vs installing individual GFCI outlets (or perhaps location the first outlet on a circuit and installing a single GFCI oulet to protect the rest of the outlet on that circuit - assuming you know the wiring schematic)?
I think I have a wiring schematic some where. If not, I most likely find one online.
I did not know that they make a 15 amp GFIC breaker but replaceing the 50 year breakers is on my to do list anyway.
ttbikes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2018, 03:46 PM   #12
2 Rivet Member
 
2010 20' Flying Cloud
Clearwater , British Columbia
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 24
Yup, 15A single pole GFCI breakers are available for about $90CND, depending on the type of connection. GFCI outlets are around $25, and regular outlets for under $5. Size of both GFCI breakers and outlets might play a factor in replacement considerations, but I'm not an electrician so would be interested if anyone knows other considerations besides size and cost. i.e. longevity, are there shared neutrals in an AS, etc?
BCMtnHound is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2018, 07:16 PM   #13
New Member
 
Currently Looking...
Hudson , New York
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 2
TTbikes you don't need a breaker, just an outlet with a safety will do. A breaker is new code for new installations in homes etc. Don't over do it. Yo said that you would not use the third ground prong anyways but just stick to the original wiring. So you don't need a GCGI outlet.
As I understand you want to use your say coffee maker with a three prong in your camper without switching the plug out every time.
keep it simple but safe. Do it all or don't.
robtechno101 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2018, 07:54 AM   #14
Rivet Master
 
gklott's Avatar
 
2004 30' Classic
Johnson City , Texas
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 590
Images: 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by ttbikes View Post
I did not know that they make a 15 amp GFIC breaker but replacing the 50 year breakers is on my to do list anyway.
Yes, you should replace all 50 year old breakers and potentially your old loadcenter.

There are excellent new OCPDs (breakers) available. The days of using simple breakers for dwelling unit branch circuits are over. The 30A service disconnect should be the only standard OCPD in your loadcenter.

When we upgraded our 30' Classic to 50 amp service, we replaced all our 15 year old breakers with the new Eaton AFCI/GFCI breakers. Eaton offers these new combo breakers in 15A (CHFAFGF115) and 20A (CHFAFGF120).

We also replaced the 30 single pole and 50 amp two pole RV outlet breakers where we park our Airstream with GFCI. All works well.

Think safe, build safe, stay safe.

73/gus
Dr. Gus Lott P.E.
__________________
Gus - KR4K : Mary - K5MCL
2004 30ft. Classic
2017 Infiniti QX80 Limited
ProPride 3P/Prodigy P3
gklott is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2018, 11:38 PM   #15
Rivet Master
 
2011 22' Sport
Portland , Oregon
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 632
GFCI doesn’t require a ground to even be present and can be installed with only 2 wires. Depending on working, you can protect multiple outlets with a single GFCI outlet as well (requires ground from GFCI to downstream outlets).
SilverHouseDreams is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2018, 11:46 AM   #16
Rivet Master
 
gklott's Avatar
 
2004 30' Classic
Johnson City , Texas
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 590
Images: 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverHouseDreams View Post
GFCI doesn’t require a ground to even be present and can be installed with only 2 wires. Depending on working, you can protect multiple outlets with a single GFCI outlet as well (requires ground from GFCI to downstream outlets).
On a two wire, ungrounded branch circuit receptacle, the NEC says you can "(b) Replace it with a GFCI-type receptacle and mark the receptacle with the words “No Equipment Ground;"". This receptacle is safer than a replacement two-prong receptacle.

Do you have enough space in the wall box for a GFCI receptacle? If not, the best approach is a GFCI breaker, or preferably, an AFCI/GFCI combo breaker.

73/gus
__________________
Gus - KR4K : Mary - K5MCL
2004 30ft. Classic
2017 Infiniti QX80 Limited
ProPride 3P/Prodigy P3
gklott is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2018, 08:48 AM   #17
4 Rivet Member
 
1964 24' Tradewind
Lawrence , Kansas
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 290
Quote:
Originally Posted by gklott View Post
On a two wire, ungrounded branch circuit receptacle, the NEC says you can "(b) Replace it with a GFCI-type receptacle and mark the receptacle with the words “No Equipment Ground;"". This receptacle is safer than a replacement two-prong receptacle.

Do you have enough space in the wall box for a GFCI receptacle? If not, the best approach is a GFCI breaker, or preferably, an AFCI/GFCI combo breaker.

73/gus
It appears that I have enough room in the wall box for a GFCI but, cold weather has kept me out of the trailer to actually try to see if it can be done safely (Why are we having snow flurries in April?). I do prefer the installation of the AFCI/GFCI combo breaker but, I am a little out of my element here. I have been looking at breaker boxes online but, the smallest I have found is 8 spaces and I am not experienced to know if my old breaker box will work, so I am going to have to continue to research. The 8 space box may fit in my space I just have not gotten out to the trailer to check. I have read that there is supposed to be compatibility in breaker boxes but, it is not always true.
ttbikes is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Vintage trailer with two prong outlets BambiTex Batteries, Univolts, Converters & Inverters 6 03-11-2015 02:08 PM
Broke 3 prong electrical cable connector in bumper storage compartment ArgosyMinuet All Argosy Trailers 6 06-30-2014 09:41 PM
Bargman #99 Tailight refit 6-prong to 7-prong silverkeeper 1960 - 1965 Safari 6 03-05-2011 10:01 AM


Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by the Airstream, Inc. or any of its affiliates. Airstream is a registered trademark of Airstream Inc. All rights reserved. Airstream trademark used under license to Social Knowledge LLC.



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:32 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.