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Old 06-12-2021, 06:56 PM   #1
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2016 23' Flying Cloud
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Post EMS-HW30C install problem

I just installed an EMS-HW30C on our 2016 23FB Flying Cloud. Prior to the install I was plugging the trailer into a 15 amp garage circuit with no problem. I was even able to run the AC on this circuit after installing a Micro - Air Easy Start 364 as long as we didn't run anything else besides lights.

Now after I installed the EMS-HW30C on the intial plug in of shore power with the 30 amp main breaker in the trailer off I got the expected codes on the display indicating proper opertation. Then I started turning on the A/C breakers, 30 amp main 1st followed by 20 amp circuit 1, 2, 3, 4, with no problem. Then when I flip 20 amp circuit 5 on it causes the circuit breaker for the 15 amp circuit in my garage to pop. I repeated this proces three times with the same results. There is nothing else plugged in on that circuit other than the trailer. According to the Owners Manual circuit five supplies power to Water Heater, 100W inverter, 7 amp breaker, 10 amp transfer switch, fInverted bedroom tv receptacle, inverted dinetted receptacle, inverted blu-ray player receptacle. I have nothing plugged in to any of these receptacles. Water heater switch is in the off position.

Any help would be appreciated as I am dead in the water and we are looking toward a June 18 two night maiden voyage.
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Old 06-12-2021, 07:49 PM   #2
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Try leaving ac breaker off
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Old 06-12-2021, 07:50 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big_Gar View Post
I just installed an EMS-HW30C on our 2016 23FB Flying Cloud. Prior to the install I was plugging the trailer into a 15 amp garage circuit with no problem. I was even able to run the AC on this circuit after installing a Micro - Air Easy Start 364 as long as we didn't run anything else besides lights.

Now after I installed the EMS-HW30C on the intial plug in of shore power with the 30 amp main breaker in the trailer off I got the expected codes on the display indicating proper opertation. Then I started turning on the A/C breakers, 30 amp main 1st followed by 20 amp circuit 1, 2, 3, 4, with no problem. Then when I flip 20 amp circuit 5 on it causes the circuit breaker for the 15 amp circuit in my garage to pop. I repeated this proces three times with the same results. There is nothing else plugged in on that circuit other than the trailer. According to the Owners Manual circuit five supplies power to Water Heater, 100W inverter, 7 amp breaker, 10 amp transfer switch, fInverted bedroom tv receptacle, inverted dinetted receptacle, inverted blu-ray player receptacle. I have nothing plugged in to any of these receptacles. Water heater switch is in the off position.

Any help would be appreciated as I am dead in the water and we are looking toward a June 18 two night maiden voyage.
1. Is the garage outlet GFCI protected by a GFCI outlet or a GFCI breaker?
2. Did you try switching the EMS to bypass?
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Old 06-12-2021, 08:51 PM   #4
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Yes the garage has GFIC but that is not the circuit breaker that opens. It is the main breaker for the garage in the main house electrical panel that opens. what is the use of having the EMS system if I use the bypass switch?
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Old 06-12-2021, 09:00 PM   #5
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Also, Air Conditioner was not one when I was powering up circuits. Nothing was one except things that are on all the time like the propane sensor.
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Old 06-12-2021, 09:04 PM   #6
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The EMS-HW30C CANT be plugged into a GFCI outlet.

call the OEM and they will tell you why.

it needs to be plugged into a non-GFCI outlet
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Old 06-13-2021, 06:23 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big_Gar View Post
what is the use of having the EMS system if I use the bypass switch?
I am only suggesting the bypass to rule out a
coincidental problem in the trailer.(testing purposes only)
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Old 06-13-2021, 07:13 AM   #8
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After further testing this moring:

Yes I tried the bypass. The same thing happened when I turned circuit 5 on. The breaker opened on my house main pane.

I have a 25 ft. 10 gage 30amp extension cord so I tried plugging in to different circuits in my house for shore power.

I tried plugging into my home kitchen circuit which is GCFI. The GCFI to the kitchen circuit opened when I turned on trailer circuit number 5.

I tried plugging into my living room outlets which is not a GCFI circuit. When I turned trailer circuit number 5 on the breaker in my main house panel for the living room outlets opened.

I have a call in to Progressive Industires so I will be waiting for a call back on Monday.

Maybe I am in over my head. Does anyone know of a good reliable honest electrician or RV dealer somewhere in my region (MN, SD, ND, IA, Nebraska) I could pay to finish this job for me. I don't have the EMS unit mounted yet nor do I have the cover on as I was testing before I did that. I also see that my shore power 30 amp wire jacket (just the exterior) is compomised between the EMS unit and the exterior trailer shore power outlet.
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Old 06-13-2021, 07:29 AM   #9
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You've already done some of the things I was about to suggest so saved me some typing A couple more things to try and narrow this down. If you have a multimeter, with the trailer unplugged record the Ohms between the two flat blades of your plug. Then turn on the first 4 breakers and measure, record again. Then turn on the 5th breaker, measure and record. Then turn off the first 4 and measure/record just with #5 turned on.
Also: Did you try turning on #5 only and see if that trips the breaker?

The facts are pointing to an issue with circuit #5 in your trailer especially since it trips even when bypassing the EMS. When you say the water heater is on #5 is it for an electric heating element?

Also, did you try #5 with the Inverter and converter turned off?
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Old 06-13-2021, 07:29 AM   #10
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It sure sounds like there is something wrong with the #5 circuit. It sounds like the EMS is okay and just doing its job. Was circuit 5 working before the install? Any chance you damaged that circuit during the install? Drill hole or screw or something? Drilling or screwing into a wire is a big concern for me when working on the trailer. I think I would unplug the trailer and test #5 with a meter looking for a short or load before I did anything else.
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Old 06-13-2021, 07:43 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by waninae39 View Post
The EMS-HW30C CANT be plugged into a GFCI outlet.

call the OEM and they will tell you why.

it needs to be plugged into a non-GFCI outlet
Not saying this is incorrect but it doesn't make a lot of sense The OP's problem doesn't appear to be the GFCI as it trips on short circuit/overload not on ground fault, the garage GFCI did not trip, also it worked fine on 4 of his circuits. Everything at this point indicates a problem with one of his circuits.

The documentation for the HW30C doesn't mention this either but you have got me curious and later today I am going to try a side experiment and try mine on a GFCI and see what happens, This would not be good because one of the big reasons for the EMS is to protect from low voltage when hooking up at a friends garage or outdoor circuit overnight and running the AC.
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Old 06-13-2021, 08:12 AM   #12
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If checking resistance between the flat blades does not turn up an overload then check again from the hot blade to the ground pin to check for a ground fault (short)
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Old 06-13-2021, 09:43 AM   #13
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Hi

Best guess: You bumped / nicked / crushed something associated with circuit 5 while putting in the EMS. Start out looking at the circuit 5 wires near your install location.

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Old 06-13-2021, 10:28 AM   #14
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The EMS is not seeing a ground causing it to think the circuit is bad. You can put the EMS on by pass if its a hardwired unit.
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Old 06-13-2021, 10:31 AM   #15
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Quote:
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The EMS is not seeing a ground causing it to think the circuit is bad. You can put the EMS on by pass if its a hardwired unit.
How does an EMS trip upstream circuit breakers because of lack of ground??
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Old 06-13-2021, 10:54 AM   #16
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My electrical knowledge is extremely limited, so I can't provide much detail or explanation, but we occasionally have a problem tripping a breaker at home when we plug in and we seem to have found a solution. We turn the inverter ON before plugging in - something about a relay in the inverter causing the EMS to detect a fault?? We just turn it off after a moment and everything runs fine.
We may have come across this suggestion in a forum post in the past.
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Old 06-13-2021, 11:19 AM   #17
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I agree. It seems like a fault in circuit #5. I would disconnect the water heater element and see if the problem goes away. I have heard of WH elements doing strange thing as they are buried in water which is a great conductor.
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Old 06-13-2021, 11:57 AM   #18
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I have the same EMS on a Sport 16.
Mine does trip a GFCI when I hook up at home.
I don't have any issues with the main house breakers.
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Old 06-13-2021, 07:18 PM   #19
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Thank you all for your suggestions. First, yes the circuit will open if just #5 is turned on when I was on the GCFI circuits. Then, I tried ITSNO60's suggestion and the ohmeter read "infinity" in all situations. I then plugged in to shore power using my house living room outlet circuit (not GFCI). I then I tried RZolla's suggestion of turning the inverter on. In all situation previous the inverter and the converter were off. Now no matter how I turned on circuit 5 either by itself or after turning on other circuits no house breaker opened, Yay! However the EMS was opening and giving me error code E4 "Low Voltage." I tried turning the inverter off and had the same results, no house breaker opening but the EMS opened and gave me the error code of E4. So I don't think it has to do with wether the inverter is on or off. I also believe now that the EMS unit doesn't like the GFIC circuits. I have a message in to Progressive Industries and I will talk to them about this tomorrow and then report back.
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Old 06-13-2021, 07:22 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big_Gar View Post
Thank you all for your suggestions. First, yes the circuit will open if just #5 is turned on when I was on the GCFI circuits. Then, I tried ITSNO60's suggestion and the ohmeter read "infinity" in all situations. I then plugged in to shore power using my house living room outlet circuit (not GFCI). I then I tried RZolla's suggestion of turning the inverter on. In all situation previous the inverter and the converter were off. Now no matter how I turned on circuit 5 either by itself or after turning on other circuits no house breaker opened, Yay! However the EMS was opening and giving me error code E4 "Low Voltage." I tried turning the inverter off and had the same results, no house breaker opening but the EMS opened and gave me the error code of E4. So I don't think it has to do with wether the inverter is on or off. I also believe now that the EMS unit doesn't like the GFIC circuits. I have a message in to Progressive Industries and I will talk to them about this tomorrow and then report back.
Hi

When you check the voltage with your multimeter, does it read low?

Bob
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