Phase II Electrical

[59toaster]

Well Floor replacement is pretty well done. Time to rewire the old 59. The 40+ rear old wires need to be redone.

Some information on my original layout. Our Coach has both 110V lighting and 12 volt lighting. All items that had the option of 12v and 110 operation had a Swith at the appliance that would route the 110v through a step down transformer. They did not run off a Univolt. This included the overhead fans and the blower on the heater.

There are several of us currently restoring and updating our Vintage coaches. I plan on a full update including some safety related up grades (GFIC breakers and such)

The old 2 110 circuit box is not cutting it. It's gone. It will be replaced with a 8 breaker circuit box. The 110v breaker box will be in the rear of the coach like original.

Breaker lay out
#1 110v lighting. I may retain the existing wiring since I am trying to avoid removing anymore interior wall.
#2 Goucho 110 wall plug (Currently has a window A/C plugged into it so going dedicated. will be next year before new over head A/C is installed).
#3 Street side Galley wall plugs GFIC
#4 Curb side wall plugs and Vanity.
#5 Pre wire for RV A/C with heat strip
#6 Converter /Charger
# 7 Fridge on a dedicated circuit.
#8 water heater till funds are available for a RV replacement,


12 Volt system will be run by a Intellicharger 9160. I'm still mulling over location to mount this. Couple other component locations are still up in the air.

I am thinking about incorperating a 1500 watt or better inverter into the system. It will run the galley side wall plugs only since I don't want to acidently over load it by having it before the breaker box. That will prevent the A/C from being able to draw from it. Since we have both 12v and 110v lighting in most locations there is no need to have any of the lighting on it.

The inverter is what is throwing me at this point. I have read some inverters will auto switch when 110v is available so I'm trying to decide if that's worth the price verses having a manual switch over set up.

I also need to decide on battery location. Real estate on the tounge is at a premium. I'm starting to think relocating the battery to under the center of the Goucho is a better option then trying to move the tanks and make room. I'm also dealing with Dual cam sway control arms interfering with the tank mount.
Hate having the battery inside with the venting concerns but may have to be done. I also hate loosing the center drawer of the goucho but if I did that would be enough room for 2 batteires.

At this point I think the Intelicharger will be located in the back next to the Fuse box. I will run a 4 gage cable from the battery at the front to the rear to handle the powere going both ways if I do incorperate a Inverter.

I'm open to product recemondations as well as comments on system layout or items to incorperate for future needs.

[87MH]

I would think that long term storage combined with hot and humid interior conditions would set up a real corrosion cell with the batteries on the inside.

Any way you could isolate them from the interior (air tight aluminum box?) and vent to the outside?

[59toaster]

I forgot to include my 12v lay out.

I'll be running a 12v pre wire to the fridge location once we have the cash for a propper Reefer to replace the domestic fridge.
12v accessory plugs at Goucho, Galley, above Reefer and Vanity.

A 12V junction block inside the Galley for any additions we may need in the future.

There will be a automotive CD player mounted in the Wardrobe. Speakers will be on the side of the Galley cabinet and the side of the Reefer cabinette to give Stereo seperation while sitting on the Goucho. The goal is to retain the vintage look so it will be out of site.




In addition to this Chillie has asked that the 8 track stereo that resided on the shelf over the Gouch be retained. One of her fond memories from when she was young.


Next problem is Antenna's :

The CD Stereo will get a roof mounted spring base antenna.

TV I'm still undecided. Part of me want's no TV camping with us. The other part thinks about rainy day and 2 board children. Also being able to pick up local news for weather issues would be a plus. What does the roof mounted bat wing antennas require? Even if I don't install one now I want to have the wiring ready if I do want to add it at a later date.

Solar prewiring: Again, what does it require be in the roof?

[74Argosy24MH]

All the tv antenna requires is the coax. Mounting is a hole about 1 1/4" and the screw mount holes. If you have any scrap aluminum I would make a reinforcing plate for the inside while you have it open.

Solar is 2 wires from the collector to the charge controller. My panels put out a little over 6 amps, but I used #10 wire. You don't want any loss in the wire so go real heavy.

Pull a few spares as you go. It will make upgrading or repairs a lot easier in the future.

John

[thenewkid64]

Now is also the time to run the feed for the future roof AC. I would call Airstream to findo out where it would go on the roof.

Inverters............

Many of the larger ones have a 30 amp relay in them. This relay is designed to draw power to charge the batteries as well as sense incoming power to autoswitch. When the inverter is on the relay opens and feeds power to the wired accessories.

What you need to do is feed the power for the outlets that can use the inverter thru the inverter. Then only those outlets will have AC power, wether the inverter is on or not.

This will not feed power to the panel or the rest of the coach because the relay will open.

Before you buy the Intelicharger you need to make up your mind on the inverter. Most of them have a really good battey charger that can equalizie and keep your batteries healthy.

Trace is the brand I am famliar with. Will support all types, Deep Cell, Golfcart, Gel, Etc. Some of the inverters can also measure battery temps so if they are getting hot from a fast recharge they will slow down to allow for absorbsion.

Lastly you want to mount the inverter as close to the batteries as possible. Remember hi volts over long distances have less Amps in loss than low volts. Even if you have to put the inverter next to the batteries the 120 volt feed can run to wherever it is needed.

[59toaster]

Good stuff. Thanks.

I have looked at MANY pictures and it looks like the A/C has to replace the center vent. The Caravanner, Flying cloud and Safari all shared the same body work around the vintage of our coach. Every picture I have seen that shows a A/C including a vintage A/C are all in that center vent.

I have a recessed light between the center and rear light as well as a partition pannel that the room devider slides on. That location also puts it well behind the axle line. Room between the solar dome and center vent but that's well Forward axle centerline. It's also where it makes sense to install the TV, Radio and Cell antenna's ( yeah I'm going to install a cell phone in it with speaker phone (what I do for a living).

Brett:

Any recomendations on the inverter Charger?

I understand the need to try to keep the Battery close to the charger but it looks like I need to have them at opposite ends of the coach. I have a big dead spot in the street side rear corner that is difficult enough to access that you wouldn't want to use it for day to day storage but usefull space for electrical gear I don't need frequent access to. It also the original location for the inverter that was in it (300watt and vintage). To far back to concider putting the battery (s) (weight). I have some fine strand 4 gage as well as fine strand 2 gage. the 2 gage seemed a little over kill but I could run it as well. Would be about a 22-24ft run from the center of the Goucho probably 24-26 if the Battery stays on the front exterior of the coach.

John:

That antenna run standard RG58 Or the Proflex stuff you would see in residential? It's looking like I will have to pull the center interrior pannel out. Heck might as well pull as much as I can. Still need to strip ugly blue paint off everything any way. What's another few hundred rivets LOL. I still need to add bracing for the A/C so I'll put a 1/8 backing plate in the area I plan to put the antenna as well. How far down does that crank handle hang? Wondering if it will be giving me knots on my head LOL.

whats the dimentions of your solar pannels? Trying to figure out where I can sneak them in on our coach. Right now with the A/C and antennas it looks like about my only available spot would be infront of the last vent behind the A/C or possibly on top of the A/C.

87MH:

Sealed box for sure! Out gasing is a real concern of mine. It will be vented out the bottom. I had a old VW wagon that had a battery explode that was under the DRIVERS SEAT.

I need to check my clearences to the goucho. It's tight hight wise. I may have to make a recessed area in the floor for the batteries to sit in and brace it off the frame.

[74Argosy24MH]

What's another few hundred rivets LOL

Not much for an Airstream. I ended up putting 1800 in my inner skins.

The antenna is RG59. It doesn't hang that far down inside, maybe 1 1/2". It is one size fits all roof thicknesses, there is a shaft for elevation and a giant knob for orientation that cut to fit. On the negative it should go as close to the centerline (most inside clearance) as possible. If you do that it will mount flat to the roof. If you end up having to go off center Winegard makes angled shims to keep it level.

My panels are Siemens (now Shell) SM55. They are 13x51", two side by side. It is hard to find them to fit length and width. I don't think the ac cover would be good support for very long. It is thin and one of those things that falls apart quickly. It isn't that hard to move the AC if you need room inside or out. I moved 1 vent and the AC to make everything fit. If AS didn't build supports for it in the body it won't be any more work and gives you flexibility for the roof clutter.

John

[thenewkid64]

Here is the type I had (mine was a 1500 watt)

http://www.xantrex.com/products/product.asp?did=549&p=2

There is a remote control panel available and they even offer a battery temp sensor. The charger is as good as the intellipower or charge wizard.

Finding a 7X11X13 inch space near the batteries is really the way to go one this. The line loss you will experience even on a #2 wire will really cut into your run time and charge capabilities. If you do go stem to stern on the battery wires be sure to loom them and fuse the positive with a fast blow 50 amp fuse. Xantrex sells one made for just that purpose.

On the subject of venting the batterybox. You could get a 120 volt muffin fan that runs when you have the inverter powered, or the unit plugged in to move more air thru the battery box. I still think it should only vent to the outside, but with a fan you can be sure of no gas buildup.

[59toaster]

Originally posted by thenewkid64
Here is the type I had (mine was a 1500 watt)

http://www.xantrex.com/products/product.asp?did=549&p=2

There is a remote control panel available and they even offer a battery temp sensor. The charger is as good as the intellipower or charge wizard.

Finding a 7X11X13 inch space near the batteries is really the way to go one this. The line loss you will experience even on a #2 wire will really cut into your run time and charge capabilities. If you do go stem to stern on the battery wires be sure to loom them and fuse the positive with a fast blow 50 amp fuse. Xantrex sells one made for just that purpose.

On the subject of venting the batterybox. You could get a 120 volt muffin fan that runs when you have the inverter powered, or the unit plugged in to move more air thru the battery box. I still think it should only vent to the outside, but with a fan you can be sure of no gas buildup.

Interesting product. EXPENSIVE though. Looks like if I don't buy the $300 link control I can't use some of the features. Have to run some options by the finance department.

I may have a stand alone 2500 watt corrected sine converter I can pick up cheap ($100 or so). It doesn't have the switch over or charge features though.

[markdoane]

Any thoughts about running EMT?
I'm running conduit under the floor to several wiring boxes at strategic locations, mostly to avoid all the grommets and chafing problems, and to allow easier changes in the future. Plan to keep the 120vac and 12VDC in separate runs, but don't know about things like speaker wire and coax. Any recommendations?

[74Argosy24MH]

Coax should be ok as long as you ground the shielding. Keep the speaker wires separate from each other and AC or it will pick up a lot of hum- sort of a linear transformer.

John

[Mrcrowley]

Home built 12 volt power supply made with a vertical or horizontal gas lawnmower engine and a gm (built in voltage regulator) alternator with a 12 deepcyle battery. I bet you could make this with a 2 horse trimmer eingine with the right pully AND I bet you could mount it on the rear fender real easy with its own casing. and a 2 to three gallon tank which would run for a good three hours . I think it would be a great idea or mount it where the brake resevoiur is on the tongue I have a 6 horse honda engine I bet I could hook up two alternators to no problem... here take a look at what this guy did

http://theepicenter.com/tow02077.html

[Mrcrowley]

I think they have two wire sheiled speaker wire at home depote>

[markdoane]

Originally Posted by Mrcrowley

Home built 12 volt power supply made with a vertical or horizontal gas lawnmower engine . . . .

Before you try this, park a running lawnmower under your window for three hours and see if you can tolerate the noise.

[lewster]

Trace and Xantrex are the two brands I find most in the RV's I work on. If you get the inverter/charger models, they will do the battery charging for you when connected to 120VAC, provide 12VDC and have an internal auto transfer switch for when 120VAC is present.

Thay aren't cheap, but are well worth it if that's the direction you would like to take.

BTW, They are both made by Xantrax now!!

[Mrcrowley]

Originally Posted by markdoane

Before you try this, park a running lawnmower under your window for three hours and see if you can tolerate the noise.

You can make a encloser that would muffle the exaust noise if it is small enouhg(said trimmer engine) you can sound proof it pretty good I bet..

[Mrcrowley]

Originally Posted by markdoane

Before you try this, park a running lawnmower under your window for three hours and see if you can tolerate the noise.

I bet you can run a long extension exaust pipe with to mufflers in series the sound would not be bad ...

[Mrcrowley]

Originally Posted by 74Argosy24MH

Not much for an Airstream. I ended up putting 1800 in my inner skins.

The antenna is RG59. It doesn't hang that far down inside, maybe 1 1/2". It is one size fits all roof thicknesses, there is a shaft for elevation and a giant knob for orientation that cut to fit. On the negative it should go as close to the centerline (most inside clearance) as possible. If you do that it will mount flat to the roof. If you end up having to go off center Winegard makes angled shims to keep it level.

My panels are Siemens (now Shell) SM55. They are 13x51", two side by side. It is hard to find them to fit length and width. I don't think the ac cover would be good support for very long. It is thin and one of those things that falls apart quickly. It isn't that hard to move the AC if you need room inside or out. I moved 1 vent and the AC to make everything fit. If AS didn't build supports for it in the body it won't be any more work and gives you flexibility for the roof clutter.

John

You know the riviting would not be so bad if I didnt have to pay 119 bucks for a rivit shaver (damn)