My trailer got fried!

[Hittenstiehl]

66 overlander you are correct 51 posts later there is still no conclusive answer from experts on both sides and those passionate people posters. I guess we're better informed as to argue either side at this point.

[ROBERTSUNRUS]

Hi, so here we are again. Scare tactics.

(1.) If you don't have a P P or Ha Ha hitch.

(2.) If you don't have disc trailer brakes.

(3.) If you don't tow with a Kenworth.

(4.) If you don't bootleg your generator ground.

(5.) If you don't have a tire pressure monitor.

(6.) If you don't convert to LT tires on your trailer.

Etc. Etc. Etc. You will die tomorrow.

[SteveSueMac]

I’m not sure if this question will help resolve this or not.

It seems the two camps as it were are:

A) the bonding plug is a safety device

B) the bonding plug is a device to trick a ground fault detector

While I suppose both could be true, my personal confusion is that if A is true, the plugs identified for this purpose look so small, it’s hard to imagine them providing any safety - in my electricity-untrained mind, I’m envisioning the “safety” of an 8’ rod driven in to the ground to discharge a wayward voltage vs. a 3-prong plug with at best a 10G wire.

While I can clearly see how the device can trick a sensor, I can’t see how it provides safety. Can that be explained to an untrained person like me?

Now that assessment and question alone likely demonstrates my complete ignorance on the matter, but for me anyway, that’s why the issue isn’t settling.

If that helps focus anything - great. If it only further muddies the waters, just ignore it.

Thanks! [emoji3]

[Ephraim]

Originally Posted by SteveSueMac

I’m not sure if this question will help resolve this or not.

It seems the two camps as it were are:

A) the bonding plug is a safety device

B) the bonding plug is a device to trick a ground fault detector

While I suppose both could be true, my personal confusion is that if A is true, the plugs identified for this purpose look so small, it’s hard to imagine them providing any safety - in my electricity-untrained mind, I’m envisioning the “safety” of an 8’ rod driven in to the ground to discharge a wayward voltage vs. a 3-prong plug with at best a 10G wire.

While I can clearly see how the device can trick a sensor, I can’t see how it provides safety. Can that be explained to an untrained person like me?

Now that assessment and question alone likely demonstrates my complete ignorance on the matter, but for me anyway, that’s why the issue isn’t settling.

If that helps focus anything - great. If it only further muddies the waters, just ignore it.

Thanks! [emoji3]

It's not voltage that kills. It's current that kills. that is why tazers work. they may deliver several thousands of volts, but very little current. It only takes 1/10 of an amp to kill a person (100mA). Note that that is not a guarantee because it really depends on the path that the voltage takes through the body. but 100mA through the heart and bad things happen.

How about this explanation: You know what a GFI breaker is right? they work by sensing current that is flowing through the third wire (green, ground, round connector on household plug, whatever) that should be flowing through the neutral (white, wide side of plug) wire. If the current on the hot (black, red or narrow side of the plug) is not the same as the neutral, then something has gone wrong and the breaker will trip.

when you are connected to shore power, the ground/neutral bond is taken care of by the place supplying your power. but when you are on generator power, you have to make sure that it is in place. If you do not have that connection, then even when things go wrong, power will never flow through that third wire and your GFI breaker is useless. that means if something goes wrong, the safety feature is non-functioning and if, for whatever reason, that current finds a return path through you.... Well, you get the idea.

<sarcasm on>
Of course, by the logic being used by many on here, the GFi breaker presents a danger to you so you should remove it and all other safety devices. Obviously a safety feature is designed to hurt you by doing the opposite of what it is supposed to.
<sarcasm off>

[jmsokol]

Originally Posted by turk123

We are at Alumapolosa and are at the Holloway camp area.

I'm Mike Sokol from RVelectricity and the No~Shock~Zone. I was just teaching a seminar on RV Electricity at Alumapalooza last week. Were you able to attend? I'm an expert in all things electrical for RVs, specializing in Hot-Skin Conditions and generator neutral bonding. And I actually taught a class to the RV technicians at the Airstream plant about 5 years ago in hot-skin detection and repair. Please contact me as I'm sure I can help figure this out. You an PM me here, or email me directly at mike (@) RVtravel (dot) com to discuss.

[OTRA15]

Originally Posted by lsbrodsky

Peter, this is the Amazon link for the Southwire plug

https://www.amazon.com/Southwire-Com...34786144&psc=1

Larry

Thanks again for the link.

Seems like a useful tool to have in the bag.

No need to debate how and when to use a sharp chisel right now!



Happy Trails,

Peter

[lsbrodsky]

You are welcome! The simple fact is your EMS will not allow current flow from a generator unless you use one of these. Folks can debate the need/safety forever, it seems.
Larry

[jmsokol]

I'm Mike Sokol from RVtravel, RVelectricity and the No~Shock~Zone. I also invented t he Neutral-Ground bonding plug referred to above, as well as taught a number of seminars on portable generator bonding and grounding principals. If I could get any support from Airstream I would love to create some Airstream specific articles and videos on AC hookup and grounding, as well as present seminars about it at some of your rallies. Please have anyone interested contact me at mike @ rvtravel (dot) com to discuss.

[rgwatkin]

I would be asking AS for a new trailer. Who knows what other damage it did under the skin. The least they could do is give you a loaner until yours is fixed.

[GCinSC2]

Knock knock

Folks Mike Sokol is reaching out.

Have you watched his hot skin and bonding plug and other RV electrical training videos?

[Pahaska]

I had my 1000w Magnum inverter in my Interstate fried at Alumapalooza last year. I was not using my surge suppressor. First clue, after I left, was my batteries not getting charged. When I opened up the old inverter, one of the PC boards had been fried. Cost me about $700 to replace.

[SteveSueMac]

I don’t know why AS needs to give permission Mike - I think if you’re a vendor a selling a product you can declare that in the forums somehow - that’s all good. I’d be glad to check out your videos and info.

Ephraim above answered my question - it seems to make more sense to my untrained mind. I’ll dig deeper but I think unless you need to declare some vendor relationship, you should feel free to post your thoughts. Love to hear them!

[OTRA15]

Originally Posted by Pahaska

. . .
. . . I was not using my surge suppressor.
. . .

[uncle_bob]

Originally Posted by SteveSueMac

I’m not sure if this question will help resolve this or not.

It seems the two camps as it were are:

A) the bonding plug is a safety device

B) the bonding plug is a device to trick a ground fault detector

While I suppose both could be true, my personal confusion is that if A is true, the plugs identified for this purpose look so small, it’s hard to imagine them providing any safety - in my electricity-untrained mind, I’m envisioning the “safety” of an 8’ rod driven in to the ground to discharge a wayward voltage vs. a 3-prong plug with at best a 10G wire.

While I can clearly see how the device can trick a sensor, I can’t see how it provides safety. Can that be explained to an untrained person like me?

Now that assessment and question alone likely demonstrates my complete ignorance on the matter, but for me anyway, that’s why the issue isn’t settling.

If that helps focus anything - great. If it only further muddies the waters, just ignore it.

Thanks! [emoji3]

Hi

Take a look at the size of the wire in your power panel. None of it is very large. A perfectly fine piece of wire will fit in one of those little plugs. It does not take a giant cable to get this done.

Again, none of this has anything to do with connecting to planet earth. You are simply tying two wires together the way they *should* be tied together. That's it. No downside, no risk from doing it, near zero cost.

Bob

[Beboplu]

That is super scary! Being newbies, we loved all the information the different speakers gave us at our first Alumapalooza this year. We already had a good surge protector, but did not know about shutting off circuit breakers, testing electrical at power box with the surge protector BEFORE plugging in our trailer. Well, turns out that was very valuable information, since we camped on our way home from Alumapalooza, and the last campground we stopped at was one near our home that I have camped at for 30 years. We pulled in to our site, did the surge protector test, and sure enough, it showed reverse polarity! I went back to the office and told them no way I was plugging my Airstream trailer into that! They reassigned us to a site with good electric and immediately sent a technician to check out the bad electrical site. I'm sure Jackson Center will take care of you, and you can figure out exactly what happened.

[jmsokol]

Originally Posted by uncle_bob

Hi

Take a look at the size of the wire in your power panel. None of it is very large. A perfectly fine piece of wire will fit in one of those little plugs. It does not take a giant cable to get this done.

Again, none of this has anything to do with connecting to planet earth. You are simply tying two wires together the way they *should* be tied together. That's it. No downside, no risk from doing it, near zero cost.

Bob

Exactly right. In fact, if you have an on-board generator in your RV the transfer switch performs the function of bonding the neutral and ground together while on generator power, but separating the neutral and ground while on shore power. That's because your RV expects a bonded neutral-ground from the generator OR the shore power line (but never internally). Since a portable generator is connected to the shore power connection without a transfer switch, my simple G-N bonding plug performs this function. Simple, isn't it?

[GOUSC]

I had posted some questions on this subject and wanted a simple yes or no answer as it pertained to my useage with my Honda EU2000. I was never able to get an answer so I took "JMSOKOL", post #125, up on his offer to assist. Below is his response to me. I hope this helps others who may be in the same situation as myself. Mike Sokol's answers are in BOLD. I appreciated his simple / straightforward response. He approved my being able to post his response to me.




Post #107

Electrical Novice here again.

Based on what I just read, the answers to my questions should be;

With that background, Will I harm my trailer if I,

1. Use a bonding plug, and use my surge protector between the generator and the RV? No, my RV will not be harmed.

Yes, you can use a bonding plug on any Honda or Yamaha Inverter generator, along with any surge protector and it works perfectly. I’m the guy who invented the generator Neutral/Ground bonding plug, so I know how this works. (Mike Sokol)


2. I am assuming by adding the surge protector in this chain will provide me with additional protection than I have had in the past. Is this a valid assumption or just an unnecessary step? Yes, it is a valid assumption in the instance that the generator does not supply correct voltage to the RV.

Is this the correct conclusion? We have 2 views of whether to use a bonding plug on a Honda 2000 or not.

Yes, you can always use the extra protection, so hooking up a surge protector to any generator is a good idea. I’ve never had a Honda or Yamaha fail in high-voltage mode, but I’ve seen this on a number of contractor and Chinese generators. (Mike Sokol)

As mentioned earlier I have not had any issues in the past of not using a bonding plug. I do not want to start using one and find out I created a problem where none existed before. If the above answers are correct, then IMO I don’t care which view is correct and I won’t put my RV or myself in any danger / risk by following the above practice.






Mike Sokol / JMS Productions
jmichaelsokol@icloud.com
301-964-5682 (Cell)
301-202-8719 (Fax)

[Alex12]

what waninae39 said is very good. Always use surge protection everywhere you go. Even if it isn't a big gathering like Alumapalooza. Park pedestals sometimes are wired incorrectly and park power surges are very common especially in the summertime with over-crowded conditions. Power surges into your coach can wear on your electrical appliances and systems and cost you a lot more $$ in the long run.

[xrvr]

Six pages making a mountain out of a mole hill.

[ROBERT CROSS]

Better than a pile of melted AU...🥴

Bob
🇺🇸