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Old 06-01-2019, 01:29 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverWind View Post
Bob....could you please explain, in layman's terms what you mean by this...

Just to complete things, this is also the reason you put in a ground jumper when you hook up a generator. The trailer does not connect the two lines. It expects them to be connected outside the trailer (at the power source and *only* at the source).

Thanks
One of the things a protection device is looking for is a bonded neutral/ground. This bonding should not occur within the trailer.

At a campground pedestal, or your house, the neutral and ground are connected (bonded) at the meter.

Some generators have a bonded neutral/ground, connected within the generator itself.

Some generators do not have a bonded neutral/ground, called a floating neutral. This type of generator needs a wire jumper between ground/neutral, or testing and protection devices will recognize this as a fault. It is not necessary for safety.

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Old 06-01-2019, 01:30 PM   #22
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I suspect bob was talking about one of these.


https://www.microair.net/products/ge...12272654155860
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Old 06-01-2019, 02:52 PM   #23
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"That daisey chain set up has been usedfor years. Works as long as everyone follows the rules."

"Everyone following the rules" would have to include the so-called electricians (were they really, or were they just self-appointed "experts"?) who created this unsafe setup. Let's review a first-hand description of the situation:

The Airstream folks provide a Hodge podge of electrical wiring and 4 trailers split 20 amps. When we hooked up the electrical my outer skin was electrified! They brought back the electricians to repair the lines on the ground. Yesterday I adjusted my hitch and as I was kneeling and grabbing the hitch, I got knocked backward by a charge of electricity.

In the afternoon a wire nut got hot and melted through so the wires shorted against the metal box. It sent the voltage through 8 trailers including mine. It completely fried two trailers converters, blew out a surge protector and fried my HDMI mono price box and melted my HDMI cables ends.


This was an extremely dangerous electrical lash-up that could easily have killed someone. It was sheer luck that it only fried a few trailers, rather than a few trailer owners. I don't care what unsafe practices were common years ago; this should never have been allowed to happen. Far better to include the words "DRY CAMPING ONLY" in the get-together announcement than to risk the lives and equipment of attendees with a grossly inadequate and incorrectly wired ad hoc electrical system. I have a Progressive Industries EMS, but I would never connect to such a setup.

"Does not surprise me that the new type owners and new type trailers fouled this up."

You've got to be kidding. To blame the victims of what was clearly an unsafe setup is way out of line.
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Old 06-01-2019, 04:02 PM   #24
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this is a VERY dangerous situation.

if i was at the event, i would call the police and the local city inspector. they must all follow code. In some countries , you can lose your job, licence to work and or go to jail. In most countries, the people that are responsible for the hazardous deployment will go to jail if and when someone gets hurt or dies

the EMS device is great. it is mounted inside our AS so that its is always inline and keeps us safe

shame on AS Corporate for allowing this to happen
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Old 06-01-2019, 04:19 PM   #25
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Hot Skin

This is a problem that is being addressed very seriously
On RV Forums and I would suggest the excellent YouTube’s
that are provided dealing with the subject

Surge protectors are good but you are best
To test the skin with a digital volt meter. Or a logic probe.

It’s all part of improper grounding. Death could occur. Some people notice pets
Not wanting to touch the trailer stems. That’s a clue!
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Old 06-01-2019, 04:29 PM   #26
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They’re expanding and building out the Airstream factory enterprise like crazy in Jackson Center but are not providing top of the line infrastructure support to their own sponsored Alumapaloosa event? Seriously? “Hodge-podge” wiring for electricity which could fry not only Airstreams but their owners? Again, seriously? Airstream corporate needs to get their priorities straight. This seems like a great way to get sued.
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Old 06-01-2019, 05:24 PM   #27
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My 1966 & 2 1967 AS had small white indicator light above water heater shore power cord that if lit polarity wrong would get small shock, remedy was turn plug over, then polarity was correct. 76 does not have light. In late 60s was at northern Il. rally at Amboy Il, rained hard water was up to floor of all AS, every body was daisy chained to elect. We waded in knee deep water, no one got shocked or died. Guess we all were lucky as no one unhooked electric. NEVER AGAIN stupid doings.
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Old 06-01-2019, 05:46 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paprika View Post
"That daisey chain set up has been usedfor years. Works as long as everyone follows the rules."

"Everyone following the rules" would have to include the so-called electricians (were they really, or were they just self-appointed "experts"?) who created this unsafe setup. Let's review a first-hand description of the situation:

The Airstream folks provide a Hodge podge of electrical wiring and 4 trailers split 20 amps. When we hooked up the electrical my outer skin was electrified! They brought back the electricians to repair the lines on the ground. Yesterday I adjusted my hitch and as I was kneeling and grabbing the hitch, I got knocked backward by a charge of electricity.

In the afternoon a wire nut got hot and melted through so the wires shorted against the metal box. It sent the voltage through 8 trailers including mine. It completely fried two trailers converters, blew out a surge protector and fried my HDMI mono price box and melted my HDMI cables ends.


This was an extremely dangerous electrical lash-up that could easily have killed someone. It was sheer luck that it only fried a few trailers, rather than a few trailer owners. I don't care what unsafe practices were common years ago; this should never have been allowed to happen. Far better to include the words "DRY CAMPING ONLY" in the get-together announcement than to risk the lives and equipment of attendees with a grossly inadequate and incorrectly wired ad hoc electrical system. I have a Progressive Industries EMS, but I would never connect to such a setup.

"Does not surprise me that the new type owners and new type trailers fouled this up."

You've got to be kidding. To blame the victims of what was clearly an unsafe setup is way out of line.
What rules? Never heard a word about detailed rules for electrical hookups at the last International Rally. We ended up relying on our 500 watt solar array which was just fine. We also had a component that allows us to use our AC with our generator installed by the Micro-Air crew at the rally so we off grid.

I realize that these events are put on by very well meaning volunteers and my hats off to them. However, as others have said here, you are ultimately responsible for the safety and security of you rigs and yourselves. The better informed you are the better off you'll be. So....thanks to AirForums and our participants for raising our collective consciousness.
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Old 06-01-2019, 05:54 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PatLee View Post
They’re expanding and building out the Airstream factory enterprise like crazy in Jackson Center but are not providing top of the line infrastructure support to their own sponsored Alumapaloosa event? Seriously? “Hodge-podge” wiring for electricity which could fry not only Airstreams but their owners? Again, seriously? Airstream corporate needs to get their priorities straight. This seems like a great way to get sued.
Alumapaloolza is run by a private for profit group. Airstreams involvement is only the they allow it to happen on their grounds.
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Old 06-01-2019, 05:59 PM   #30
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Ok, this has scared the heck out me. I've never been faced with a set up like that, but I am signed up for the international rally in Virginia. Is that likely to be the situation there, does anyone know. I use a very good surge protector, but that's all. I don't want to risk death or frying my rig.
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Old 06-01-2019, 06:04 PM   #31
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Thumbs up

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rainmaker View Post
Geo
Very interested in the lockbox. Can you show a picture or give some specs (ei. manufacture or dimensions). I would like to have something like that for when I have to use an extra 30 amp extension.
There at least 3 on Ebay manf. by PD
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Old 06-01-2019, 08:36 PM   #32
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[QUOTE=Mansderm161;2247543]Ok, this has scared the heck out me. I've never been faced with a set up like that, but I am signed up for the international rally in Virginia. Is that likely to be the situation there, does anyone know. I use a very good surge protector, but that's all. I don't want to risk death or frying my rig.


Me too. This will be my first International. I was feeling pretty good about going until this communication about electrical issues. Something new to prepare for I guess. So does anyone know what kind of setup there will be at international?
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Old 06-01-2019, 08:41 PM   #33
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Tester’s Video Link

forgot to include this-


https://youtu.be/GuWX9wJwvtU
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Old 06-01-2019, 08:46 PM   #34
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Well, my trailer checked out OK. The service center told me to bring it in at 7:00 AM this morning! They checked all the circuits and converter. Everything has passed.

I will never go on a daisy chain 20 amp circuit again. When we arrived, I hooked up and didn't realize my 50 amp surge protector would work on the lower voltage. My skin was live with 110 AC power!

I talked to Tim the Holloway host and he called the maintenance guys from Airstream. They found out they wired it wrong.

Later, someone must have used to much power and a wire nut melted and shorted against the metal box sending a surge through 7 trailers. It fried two converters, a surge protector and my HDMI cables and monoprice switch. I also had hot skin again.

I unhooked. That is when Airstream said to bring the trailer in so they can verify that everything works and the hot skin problem needed to be solved. After 4 hours they said my trailer is clear of the hot skin problem and they wired a new HDMI cable to the living room TV, but could not replace the bedroom HDMI because it would take about 6-8 hours. They moved my warranty appointment up from Aug 12th to July 18th. I now have ninteen Items for them to fix on the 18th.

By the way, they had the Monoprice switch in stock and gave it to me to replace the burned out one. They briefly used this in earlier classics but replaced it with a cheap inexpensive model that burned out on me 7 months ago. That's why I bought the Monoprice!

Lessons learned. Always use a surge protector even if it fries the $375 item instead of the $139 switch. I guess it could have been worse.

From now on when we go to Alumapolosa, we will be with the generator group. I also have solar to rely on. No more 110 ac wires laying on the ground with non-electricians stringing the stuff in the rain and mud and coming back to announce that "We goofed and wired the neutral wrong". No more Airstream non-thinking owners firing up the hair dryer or defrosting a steak in the microwave and melting the circuit.

We left a day early, missed both the last day and the day previous waiting for Airstream service guys to show up and missed the one seminar I wanted to go to which ironically had to do with electricity, batteries, and solar in your Airstream. Also, my rear tv will not work until the end of summer and I was told to keep an eye on the trailer in case the short returns because. "It could kill you!"

Actually, the guys in the service center were the best. They were looking out for me and they went out of their way to install the one HDMI cable. I couldn't be happier. They all know what they are doing. Just keep those maintenance guys away from the wiring.
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Old 06-01-2019, 09:05 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by Mansderm161 View Post
Ok, this has scared the heck out me. I've never been faced with a set up like that, but I am signed up for the international rally in Virginia. Is that likely to be the situation there, does anyone know. I use a very good surge protector, but that's all. I don't want to risk death or frying my rig.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mbubbaca View Post
Me too. This will be my first International. I was feeling pretty good about going until this communication about electrical issues. Something new to prepare for I guess. So does anyone know what kind of setup there will be at international?
The International Rally will have 30A hookups for all (except the generator section), though it is possible that a few may be by way of a 50A to 30A splitter (i.e. a 50A male plug to two 30A female plugs) if they run out of 30A receptacles. There will be no "3A" daisy chains

Some History: The International Rally hasn't used "3A" for more than a decade since everyone came to expect 30A in the early 2000's. Back in the late 1950's to the early 2000's, 3A was all you got at an International Rally. And everyone liked it. ;-) That's all we got at the 2004 International Rally, which was the first to offer optional 30A for an extra price. 30A became standard soon thereafter. By the time of our next international Rally in 2009, I believe 30A was standard. Not sure the exact year the change was made.

Since most International Rallies are now held at fairgrounds and other facilities set up to host large RV events, there rarely is anything more than some extension cords needed to get power to Airstreams. Last year the the international Rally in Salem, OR the fairground did provide 30A extension cords to reach some trailers. These cords were not provided, nor set up, by the club.
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Old 06-01-2019, 09:05 PM   #36
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Glad you’re all good. The service guys are the best. Can’t wait to visit again next year for some tick list items.

Tell us how the ride goes with the realigned yoke on your hitch!! Good luck!
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Old 06-01-2019, 11:14 PM   #37
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Alumapaloolza is run by a private for profit group. Airstreams involvement is only the they allow it to happen on their grounds.
Therefore the endorsement of being reputable and supported by them. Hence, they should be sniffing around to make sure things are good to go.
What I have learned from this thread is that I will never go to an event like this, for a variety of reasons.
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Old 06-02-2019, 01:49 AM   #38
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. . .
I talked to Tim the Holloway host and he called the maintenance guys from Airstream. They found out they wired it wrong.
. . .
Lucky no one was killed or seriously injured, not to mention the risk of multiple fires.

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Old 06-02-2019, 03:06 AM   #39
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Hi, I have never been daisy chained and have never had an electrical problem, yet. But I have a polarity tester and a Kiil-a-Watt permanently mounted in my trailer's kitchen. I always look at these to make sure that my power is good.
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Old 06-02-2019, 06:19 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by ROBERTSUNRUS View Post
Hi, I have never been daisy chained and have never had an electrical problem, yet. But I have a polarity tester and a Kiil-a-Watt permanently mounted in my trailer's kitchen. I always look at these to make sure that my power is good.
What makes me mad is that not what happened to my trailer, but that I didn't take the precautions, like you, that will identify any problems before plugging in. I forgot the issues we had last year when the power would always go out as circuits were overloaded. For some reason, I didn't believe my 50 amp surge protector would work on 110 volts. I also was in a hurry and did not take the time to find all the adapters I needed and a proper heavy gauge extension cord. I would have been better to set the rest of my rig up and pay attention to the power later.

Of course, at these events, the host is being helpful and quick to point out where your water and electric is and helps you hook up. He is handing you a backflow prevention valve and making sure you use it properly. One thing leads to another and you have electric and water before you've tested anything. Let this be a lesson to all of us to take the precautions you all know you need to do to protect you and your trailer.

This will never happen again to me. Quite frankly, knowing what I know about the electrical systems at Alumapolosa, I will go solar and in the generator area.
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