Magnum vs Victron Hybrid Inverter?

[daleyocum]

That’s true, while it’s an older model it does seem to do a lot of what the Color panel does. You still use a Digital Multi to turn on and off the inverter and set power levels, correct?

[Docinabox]

Originally Posted by daleyocum

That’s true, while it’s an older model it does seem to do a lot of what the Color panel does. You still use a Digital Multi to turn on and off the inverter and set power levels, correct?

The blue power panel allows on/off control as well as control of hybrid settings. This is the only control I need for the multi. In addition, it allows detailed control of charger settings and much more. Below is one of the views using diagram like display of power flow like the GX.

[daleyocum]

Thanks! It looks like that B/W panel may be my answer. I like how everything is in one place. I’m surprised the Color one can’t handle things like Inverter on/off and shore current limits.

[mythbuster88]

Originally Posted by daleyocum

I'm about to replace the Inverter/charge controller and add solar to a 2018 FC 25FBT. I'm choosing between a Victron and Magnum 3000w Hybrid inverter and related accessories. I've had a Magnum before but not a Victron. I'd be interested in the thoughts of the community.

The choice is between the Magnum:
MSH3012M 3000W, 12v 125A Inverter
ME-BMK Battery Monitor
ME-ARC50 Remote control
PT-100 MPPT Solar Charge Controller
Total $2,990 (from iMarine)

Or the Victron:
Multiplus 12/3000/120-50 Inverter Charger
BMV-702 Battery Monitor with dongle
Digital Multi Control 200/200A
MPPT 100/50 Charge Controller with dongle
MK3-USB Computer Interface
Total $2,233 (from Amazon)

Note the Victron system as spec'ed doesn't have the spiffy color Control panel GX for $516. That's cool to watch, not sure if I actually need it given the battery monitor.

I know the Magnum solar charge controller is overkill. It's the only one they make and it integrates with the single control panel. The Magnum is nice in that everything works through the easy-to-mount panel.

These will be powered with 200W of Lithium and around 400-600W of solar (depends on what fits)

Thoughts on which is best? Things I'm missing (besides the usual master switches, fuses, etc.)

Where is the DC/DC converter?

[daleyocum]

Originally Posted by mythbuster88

Where is the DC/DC converter?

I’ll be wiring the batteries in parallel so the whole system is 12v. I’ll likely have a couple of smaller DC converters for the TVs (so you won’t need to turn on the inverter to run them) but the batteries won’t need one for powering the pumps, lights, etc.

[Troutboy]

Dc/dc converter isolates the AS batteries from the TOw vehicle batteries. Protects lithiums from shocks etc, as well as ensures proper charging of lithiums from the vehicle when plugged in. In addition, without one, because of the higher voltage in lithiums, if you are connected to the tow vehicle it is possible to drain your lithiums as they think they have to charge the vehicle battery.

It’s very important to protect the lithium investment...

[mythbuster88]

From Victron Energy the Orion TR-12-12-18 floats my boat.

The input is 8-17 V
The output is adjustable for 10-15 V
Rated current is 18 Amps.

There is a 9 amp version that is probably just fine. But I don't know yet what is best.

Also Victron has a new DC/DC converter in the works.
http://www.airforums.com/forums/f37/...er-176937.html

[mythbuster88]

Originally Posted by daleyocum

I’ll be wiring the batteries in parallel so the whole system is 12v. I’ll likely have a couple of smaller DC converters for the TVs (so you won’t need to turn on the inverter to run them) but the batteries won’t need one for powering the pumps, lights, etc.

Your tow vehicle is set up to charge lead acid batteries.
It was never designed to charge LiFePO4 batteries.

Although if you do nothing you wont start any fires or anything, it is best to pony up the ~$200 to match the (very ancient, stinky, acid from hell, heavy as lead ) charging system of your tow vehicle to your new very cool LiFePO4 batteries.


RC

[daleyocum]

Originally Posted by mythbuster88

From Victron Energy the Orion TR-12-12-18 floats my boat.

The input is 8-17 V
The output is adjustable for 10-15 V
Rated current is 18 Amps.

There is a 9 amp version that is probably just fine. But I don't know yet what is best.

Also Victron has a new DC/DC converter in the works.
http://www.airforums.com/forums/f37/...er-176937.html

This is a good tip I’d forgotten about. My 2016 F150 has a very low charge current it supplies to the trailer, I think it’s only 6 amps or so. I suppose that’s better than nothing so I should get a small DC to DC converter like your 9 amp one. I was thinking about not even bothering and just charging with solar while driving but that just seems wrong somehow.

Some people have rewired their F150s to charge directly from the alternator with a relay (to turn off the charge circuit while stopped.). I’ll do that if I must but would rather not. I’ll have to see how it all works in practice.

My truck turns off the charge circuit when stopped so there’s no danger of discharging the batteries.

[Rocinante]

I had believed that my 2014 RAM 1500 automatically disconnected from the trailer when the ignition was off, but then I had cause to disconnect the truck's battery cables in the truck from the truck's battery terminals. Imagine my surprise when the light under the hood kept working, despite this.

When I physically disconnected the 7-pin cable that connects the trailer to the truck the light went out. Thus, I have learned empirically that for my vehicle, the trailer and truck are electrically connected as long as the 7-pin cable is connected, regardless of the state of the ignition switch. So, check to be sure before you assume that turning off the ignition breaks the electrical connection between trailer and truck.

[daleyocum]

I do know that the 12v pin on a newer F150 trailer connector isn’t activated unless there’s a trailer plugged in. I was planning to use that line to power my air suspension compressor but those hopes were dashed. I also know they somehow current limit the line to around 6 amps. I had assumed that meant it wouldn’t try to leak power back into the truck but I haven’t put a meter on it.

I’m sold on installing the DC to DC converter anyway so it doesn’t matter in my case.

[Docinabox]

Alternatively you could examine your AS electrical schematic and disconnect the umbilical charge line from the DC bus. Thus putting all your trust in the solar power system.

[fran&frank]

That is essentially what I did-- I put a switch on the 12-v charge wire coming from the tow vehicle and just leave it off and rely on the solar to charge the battery when not on shore power. However if I had an all Victron system I probably would have used the dc-dc converter Troutboy mentioned.

Docinabox your comments about the Blue power panel are helpful, I have been trying to decide among the control and monitoring options to use with my victron solar charger and multiplus inverter/charger without going for the more expensive color control panel. Do you have a solar charger connected to the Blue power panel so you can monitor the solar contribution to the system? From some of the information on supplier websites it sounded like maybe you could not do this?

[Docinabox]

Originally Posted by fran&frank

That is essentially what I did-- I put a switch on the 12-v charge wire coming from the tow vehicle and just leave it off and rely on the solar to charge the battery when not on shore power. However if I had an all Victron system I probably would have used the dc-dc converter Troutboy mentioned.

Docinabox your comments about the Blue power panel are helpful, I have been trying to decide among the control and monitoring options to use with my victron solar charger and multiplus inverter/charger without going for the more expensive color control panel. Do you have a solar charger connected to the Blue power panel so you can monitor the solar contribution to the system? From some of the information on supplier websites it sounded like maybe you could not do this?

The BPP (blue power panel) has both VE.net and VE.bus victron communication protocols via cat5 wire and RJ 45 connectors. The VE.bus protocol is how the multiplus communicates with the system. The VE.net protocol is used by the battery monitor(VE.net battery controller). The Victron solar charge controllers use VE.direct which is not compatible with the BPP. I have used the Bluetooth dongle for my victron solar charge controller via my cell phone. I am not aware of any way to convert the .direct protocol to .bus or .net. In any case the BPP does reflect the total current in and out of the system through the battery controller/shunt , so I still find it useful. In contrast the color control panel does have the VE.direct inputs. When curiosity strikes I have my Morningstar remote panel mounted next to the BPP and can easily access the victron charge controller via bluetooth. The CCGX integrates better/more easily with current Victron components, and if designing a system top to bottom, would likely put this component in. As many of the DIYers here, motley systems evolve as we learn and apply new/better ideas. My system is no different. However, it’s tuned now and I’m not changing it for quite some time. That being said, the BPP is incredibly useful for monitoring and making settings to the inverter, charger, and hybrid aspects of the multiplus and do not regret buying it.

[tabney0315]

Did you but this stuff yet? I went with all Victron and couldn’t be happier. I have the CCGX and I think it’s excellent and worth the cost and allows for remote online access and control.

The best place to buy is a website called ThePowerStore.com.

They have great service and you will save at least $500 compared to any other site and the products come direct from manufacturer.

My sales guy was Kevin Pitts and he will help take care of everything.

kevin.pitts@thepowerstore.com

[daleyocum]

Originally Posted by tabney0315

Did you but this stuff yet? I went with all Victron and couldn’t be happier. I have the CCGX and I think it’s excellent and worth the cost and allows for remote online access and control.

The best place to buy is a website called ThePowerStore.com.

They have great service and you will save at least $500 compared to any other site and the products come direct from manufacturer.

My sales guy was Kevin Pitts and he will help take care of everything.

kevin.pitts@thepowerstore.com

Thanks for the tip, I'll check that out.

I just took delivery of my FC25. I thought we'd take it out for a week-long shakedown trip in March in it's stock configuration before I tear it's electrical system apart. That way there won't be any warranty issues if something doesn't work right out of the gate. We won't be bookdocking on that first trip so no need for all the fancy solar stuff.

Once we return I'll start making a mess in preparation for our big trip starting mid-June.

[daleyocum]

Thanks to everyone’s advice I’ll be installing the Victron system in my 2018 FC25FB Twin and I’ll bite the bullet and get the Color GX control panel.

I’d like to not be cutting more holes for display panels than necessary so am I correct in assuming that with the Color GX I wouldn’t need to see the battery monitor (the BMV712)?

Also, where is a good place to mount the Color GX while minimizing the disruption of cabinet space behind? I know there’s a CAT5 prewire next to the factory inverter control for the factory solar charge controller display in the kitchen backsplash. Between those inverter control wires (which I don’t need with the Victron Multiplus) and the CAT 5 would I need to run any more wires if I used that area? Will it fit?

[tabney0315]

Excellent choice. You will not be disappointed.

I guess you could say you do not need to mount the BMV-712 since you will be able to see most of it on the CCGX but may want to have it easily accessible in the event you do need to view something on the BMV.

Also you will need it close enough to connect it to the CCGX via the V.E. Direct cable in order to have the battery monitor information to display.

[daleyocum]

Originally Posted by tabney0315

Excellent choice. You will not be disappointed.

I guess you could say you do not need to mount the BMV-712 since you will be able to see most of it on the CCGX but may want to have it easily accessible in the event you do need to view something on the BMV.

Also you will need it close enough to connect it to the CCGX via the V.E. Direct cable in order to have the battery monitor information to display.

I was going to put all the electronics under the curb side front twin bed so I then need to get whatever cables I’ll need to wherever the display is. Can I use the existing CAT5 cable Airstream installed by splicing on the appropriate connectors if that place was the area above the kitchen counter? Does everything happen over V.E. Direct or will I need other cables as well? Is there anything special about the V.E. Direct cable that a CAT5 couldn’t handle?

[tabney0315]

V.E. Direct is a Victron proprietary cable used to communicate between Victron products. E.g. Between the CCGX and the Solar Controllers and/or the BMV-712.

The RJ-45 (CAT5) is an industry standard cable and is used to communicate between the CCGX and the Multiplus (Inverter/Charger. )

You will need to get all the below to the back of the CCGX from your main system:
- 12VDC positive
- 12VDC negative
- RJ-45

You will need to get the below to the back of the BMV-712 from your Battery Shunt:
- RJ-12

You will need to connect the below from your BMV-712 from your CCGX:
- V.E. Direct

How you wire that is up to you... but it looks like you will have to get either the V.E. Direct or the RJ-12 wired to where the CCGX will be.