LongLongHoneymoon Install #LoLoHo

[turk123]

Originally Posted by fran&frank

If you want remote monitoring and are content to use your phone or laptop instead of the Color GX screen and controls you can use the Victron Venus GX, which is essentialy the same as the Color GX but without its own monitor. --Frank

Victron has a very well thought out solution. Remarkable product.

Scroll to the bottom of this link to "movies" that describe the Victron Venus:

https://www.victronenergy.com/panel-...enus-gx#movies

[GMFL]

Here’s a few screen shots of my ability to monitor for London.

[uncle_bob]

Hi

The downside of all this "remote monitor" stuff is that it needs to be powered. Once you add up all the bits and pieces, it's not a small amount of power. That's fine if the trailer has a power source (solar in the sun, shore power). It's not so great if it does not (stored in the shade, no plug available). If you are out in the boonies, both you *and* the trailer need a signal to connect to. Lots of variables.

Why bring this up? I went with the Venus early on. I pulled it out after a while. There simply was no "use case" that fit our needs.

Bob

[chris_kelly]

Good video tonight!

Kudos to you Ronnie.

https://youtu.be/tEc6DwBMGwA

[GMFL]

Thanks guys. Here’s a link with the Thumb Nail. I think Sean did a great Job on portraying the install.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEc6DwBMGwA

[nryn]

Well done, sir! Clean install and should provide them some great flexibility on the road.

[GettinAway]

Enjoyed the video. Nice job Ronnie. Very clean system.

[Slimpockets]

How much power does it take to run AC or the furnace? I’m wondering how long you can run systems with this setup.

[AirMiles]

Originally Posted by Slimpockets

How much power does it take to run AC or the furnace? I’m wondering how long you can run systems with this setup.

A 13,500 to 15,000 BTU air conditioner uses about 16A at 120V while running. I always multiply by 10 for running on a 12V battery system, so that totals 160A. Then add a few amps for the inverter and other loads in the Airstream, so let's say 170A load for A/C with other loads. Therefore, theoretically, the Air Conditioner could be run for about two hours if the a 400AH Lithium battery bank was fully charged at the start. If the sun is out and you have 400W of solar, up to 30A of solar charging may extend the A/C run time by an additional hour. If the A/C is cycling and only running 50% of the time, up to six hours of air conditioned comfort could be obtained with solar and sunshine. Maybe someone who actually has this configuration can tell us how it operates in the real world.

The furnace only takes 7A at 12V to operate on propane. Running the furnace on propane is not a concern with 400AH of Lithium. Running the heat pump would be equivalent to running the A/C.

[Slimpockets]

So would that be 84 watts an hour for propane heat? How many watts can you pull from the lithium battery?

I have read that the propane heater will drain the lead battery in one night. I don’t know much about electronics so I apologize in advance for the dumb questions.

[AirMiles]

Originally Posted by Slimpockets

So would that be 84 watts an hour for propane heat? How many watts can you pull from the lithium battery?

I have read that the propane heater will drain the lead battery in one night. I don’t know much about electronics so I apologize in advance for the dumb questions.

No, the propane furnace runs on 12 volts so no 120V multiplier is needed for the amp draw. The furnace uses 7 amps per hour of run time. The stock Airstream batteries only have 160AH of storage and only 80AH can be used without damaging them. Therefore, 80AH divided by 7A equals about eleven, so one night of furnace usage. But if the furnace only runs 50% of the time, it could be on for 24 hours.

There are no dumb questions. Sometimes there are dumb answers.

[Rocinante]

We have in the past gotten through a warm day via hybrid power input. We had 15A shore power, 650 watts of solar, and our batteries. (We spun the dial on the controller so it would never draw more than 15A.) This capability has enabled us to be well-behaved driveway moochers without blowing any circuits in the house. Doing so certainly exercises the trailer's electrical system, which on a particularly warm day can generate its own heat as the batteries are discharged, charged, and so on, as the heat pump cycles on and off.

We also once accidentally left the AC on while towing, and found an hour or so later when we stopped to walk the dog that while the trailer batteries were lower than expected, the trailer was comfortably cool. Needless to say, we turned off the heat pump before proceeding on our way, which enabled the solar panels to recharge the batteries as the day progressed.

[wulfraat]

Originally Posted by Slimpockets

How much power does it take to run AC or the furnace? I’m wondering how long you can run systems with this setup.

The AC sucks a lot of juice. I run mine off batteries. With 600ah (480 usable) of lithium I can realistically run my AC on a hot summer day for about 2.5 hours on batteries alone (if I’m starting around 100%) with minimal cycling of the compressor. With my 800w of solar this is extended to about 3.5ish hours in the real world with other things going on in the trailer + the efficiency loss of the multiplus. This also assumes I start out around 100% charge which is typically not the case. The other challenge is you end the day with flat batteries and no sun left to charge [emoji4]

Also note that I have successfully melted a blue sea 300A rated switch between the multi and the batts, and melted the heat shrink on the 12v cable. Replaced with a newer version rated at 350. Stuff gets HOT when you push that much 12v amperage through the system for hours on end. Kinda thinking I should have gone to a 24 or 48v system [emoji4]

If I know I will be running the AC for extended amount of time (all day) I will typically move to hybrid mode and use my honda 2000 on propane to deliver 1100-1200 watts or so (at altitude here in Colorado) to take the edge of the battery draw.

If I run hybrid mode and it’s sunny I can go on all day and still have ample battery power left end of day.

The 12v furnace is somewhat of background noise in my system. I am a heavy 120v+12v user off grid. I typically use 150ah+ per day. My panels can put back 200ah+ per day if it’s sunny.

... for those who are interested in real world numbers [emoji4]

[uncle_bob]

Originally Posted by AirMiles

No, the propane furnace runs on 12 volts so no 120V multiplier is needed for the amp draw. The furnace uses 7 amps per hour of run time. The stock Airstream batteries only have 160AH of storage and only 80AH can be used without damaging them. Therefore, 80AH divided by 7A equals about eleven, so one night of furnace usage. But if the furnace only runs 50% of the time, it could be on for 24 hours.

There are no dumb questions. Sometimes there are dumb answers.

Hi

It also depends a lot on which "furnace" you happen to have. The hydronic system in ours averages about 1 amp of draw while heating on propane. It cycles on and off so you do need to average it out.

Bob

[AirMiles]

Originally Posted by uncle_bob

Hi

It also depends a lot on which "furnace" you happen to have. The hydronic system in ours averages about 1 amp of draw while heating on propane. It cycles on and off so you do need to average it out.

Bob

Thank you Bob for fixing my dumb answer

[ghaynes755]

Turk, with the 7” CZONE they eliminated some of the components up in the front overhead compartment.

[turk123]

Originally Posted by ghaynes755

Turk, with the 7” CZONE they eliminated some of the components up in the front overhead compartment.

Well, at least they are simplifying the system by having fewer parts to go wrong.

Airstream once told me that they have several upgrades features they are rolling out. I guess I assumed that my software was being upgraded to improve some of the features. What they really meant was 2020 would have the upgraded features. It is sad that they do not offer improvements when it only requires software changes. Tesla upgrades my car about every two weeks! Airstream basically says "If it ain't broke, don't fix it."

Probably a few days to add several new improvements to the Czone panel software and then offer the upgrade for $100. I'd pay for it. Add a few sensible modes and correct some odd voltage reporting and that would make me happy. Add these to the phone software and you're done. Czone has all the programming software available and from what I understand, Airstream did program the panel themselves.

It would go a long way to offer that to existing customers.

[GMFL]

Originally Posted by wulfraat

Also note that I have successfully melted a blue sea 300A rated switch between the multi and the batts, and melted the heat shrink on the 12v cable. Replaced with a newer version rated at 350.

Check out the 600A rated BlueSea switches. They are awesome.

[uncle_bob]

Originally Posted by GMFL

Check out the 600A rated BlueSea switches. They are awesome.

Hi

These:

https://shop.pkys.com/Blue-Sea-7700-...2V_p_1691.html

while "only" rated at 500A continuous are pretty much indestructible in this sort of application. They will handle 2500A for 10 seconds. While these are really neat batteries, doing that sort of current is unlikely. It's certainly *way* past the startup surge on anything like an inverter.

Since they are "latching" devices. They pull no current while on or off. The only
power used is when you change state.

No more fumbling behind this or that to find the magic switch ....

It ... umm ... errr ... also just *might* allow the wife to easily spot the fact that it's in the wrong position as you exit the trailer and ... umm... point that out ... Just saying.

Bob

[Troutboy]

Originally Posted by dhroberts

I am not an electrical engineer. That said, I agree with the 'I think 400W will struggle to keep 400AH charged' statement. When I worked with my designer/installer Marv Braun of Precision RV, I decided to go with 900W (9 panels) on my 30' Classic to work with my 600Ah lithium cell bank. I maxed the panel count permitted by my roof's footprint. I considered less than sunny days and the sun's angle during the day. After 4 years, my thinking has been rewarded.

I have 500w of panels, and 360 Amphr of battery and it works awesome out in Colorado, felt drops below 80% even in winter when using furnace.