Lithium & Solar Issue

[Silvr_Bullet]

Originally Posted by wulfraat

Here is another basic diagram on how to wire a shunt to the factory system.

The employee at the dealership is incompetent when it comes to 12/120v electrical / ABYC standards and I’ll leave it at that [emoji4]

Also adding a second diagram that includes a proper battery cut off switch so you don’t end up draining your batteries again.

If one had one lithium battery, how would the installation differ with no inverter. I am in the process of replacing my AGM 100 amp with a Lithium 100 amp, maybe a Battle Born. I would like to add a Victron 712 to replace the factory Sun Explorer. Add a Victron 30 amp Solar Controller ( and a Bluetooth Dongel ). I don’t know if my current onboard battery charger supports Lithium. I have an 80 watt roof top solar panel and a 120 watt portable. This is in a 16’ Sport. I am not having any luck finding someone in my area for an install, thinking of my residential electrician. Any advice would be appreciated as my experience with electrical is changing out a light switch.

[richard5933]

Not a lot I can add to the advice given by others, but I will agree that the bus bars used are wholly inadequate. Especially the negative bus bar.

One suggestion - if you are using anything which has set-screw terminal connection on it and you're using stranded wire it really helps to install a ferrule on the end of the wire before inserting it into the set screw terminal. Ensures that all the strands are playing their parts and not squished off to the side somewhere laying loose.

[uncle_bob]

Originally Posted by Silvr_Bullet

If one had one lithium battery, how would the installation differ with no inverter. I am in the process of replacing my AGM 100 amp with a Lithium 100 amp, maybe a Battle Born. I would like to add a Victron 712 to replace the factory Sun Explorer. Add a Victron 30 amp Solar Controller ( and a Bluetooth Dongel ). I don’t know if my current onboard battery charger supports Lithium. I have an 80 watt roof top solar panel and a 120 watt portable. This is in a 16’ Sport. I am not having any luck finding someone in my area for an install, thinking of my residential electrician. Any advice would be appreciated as my experience with electrical is changing out a light switch.

Hi

You will need a converter / charger that is lithium compatible. The stock units normally are not.

You will need a solar controller. I would get the "Smart" Victron with the Bluetooth built in. It's cheaper than buying the "dumb" one and adding a dongle.

If you have a portable panel, it also would need a lithium compatible controller on it. With two small panels, having the controllers "fight" with each other does impact things.

I realize there is only so much space on top of a 16'. Still, I'd sure look into fitting another panel on the roof.

Diagram wise it's all the same. You just don't have the second battery.

Like anything on an RV, there *is* a value in learning how to do this or that. You never know when a problem will pop up 200 miles from nowhere / with no cell service

Bob

[wulfraat]

Originally Posted by Silvr_Bullet;

If one had one lithium battery, how would the installation differ with no inverter. I am in the process of replacing my AGM 100 amp with a Lithium 100 amp, maybe a Battle Born. I would like to add a Victron 712 to replace the factory Sun Explorer. Add a Victron 30 amp Solar Controller ( and a Bluetooth Dongel ). I don’t know if my current onboard battery charger supports Lithium. I have an 80 watt roof top solar panel and a 120 watt portable. This is in a 16’ Sport. I am not having any luck finding someone in my area for an install, thinking of my residential electrician. Any advice would be appreciated as my experience with electrical is changing out a light switch.

See attached. no inverter is easy, just eliminate that cable to / from the battery. Your solar charger will connect to the positive and negative bus bars in black / red in the diagram.

[AirstreamJim]

Originally Posted by richard5933

Not a lot I can add to the advice given by others, but I will agree that the bus bars used are wholly inadequate. Especially the negative bus bar.

I agree; I was a bit surprised to see them so tightly packed, as nothing new has been added to them. I believe the bus bars are original to the trailer. I’ll see about replacing them as well.

Jim

[Silvr_Bullet]

wulfraat and Uncle_Bob thanks for your expertise. Will I be able to reuse circuit breakers from the on board charger to the new one that will support the Lithium battery . Thanks

[Silvr_Bullet]

Originally Posted by Silvr_Bullet

wulfraat and Uncle_Bob thanks for your expertise. Will I be able to reuse circuit breakers from the on board charger to the new one that will support the Lithium battery . Thanks

Just watched a YouTube video and now I know that the fuse box and the converter are separate and distinct , I know the answer to my question I quoted here. You now understand my limited knowledge. So no need to answer. But any advice or comments are welcome. Thanks

[wulfraat]

Originally Posted by Silvr_Bullet

Just watched a YouTube video and now I know that the fuse box and the converter are separate and distinct , I know the answer to my question I quoted here. You now understand my limited knowledge. So no need to answer. But any advice or comments are welcome. Thanks

Airforums is a great place to learn. I knew zero (0) about any of this stuff until we got a trailer. Comes over time and there is a lot of great folks on the forum who will share their knowledge and expertise.

All good! Airstreams are awesome!

[AirstreamJim]

I've supplied the dealership with the attached schematic for them to follow when they fix their poor workmanship. Please let me know if there's anything seriously wrong with it before it's too late.

Thanks again for everyone's help.

Jim

[wulfraat]

Very close. Your inverter hot (red) should be wired to the to the right of the disconnect switch but before the “DC fuse block”. Otherwise your converter cannot power 12v loads in the trailer when the batteries are disconnected from the system. The wire from the converter actually bolts to the disconnect solenoid switch itself IIRC.

Negative from the inverter should connect directly to the top of the shunt itself, not the bus bar. It draws a lot of current and the bus bar is not rated for that load. Same for red / positive to the inverter - that should go straight to the positive battery terminal bypassing the positive bus bar.

There should also be a tiny red line from the shunt to the positive battery terminal (it gets a tiny amount of constant DC power to stay alive 24/7)

Finally, technically, from your solar controller, you should show 2 wires headed off to the solar panels. Not needed really but for the avoidance of doubt....

Nice work. Next time you need to troubleshoot something you will be a pro because you know how this stuff works!

[Dozer1960]

Originally Posted by wulfraat

Very close. Your inverter hot (red) should be wired to the to the right of the disconnect switch but before the “DC fuse block”. Otherwise your converter cannot power 12v loads in the trailer when the batteries are disconnected from the system. The wire from the converter actually bolts to the disconnect solenoid switch itself IIRC.

Negative from the inverter should connect directly to the top of the shunt itself, not the bus bar. It draws a lot of current and the bus bar is not rated for that load. Same for red / positive to the inverter - that should go straight to the positive battery terminal bypassing the positive bus bar.

There should also be a tiny red line from the shunt to the positive battery terminal (it gets a tiny amount of constant DC power to stay alive 24/7)

Finally, technically, from your solar controller, you should show 2 wires headed off to the solar panels. Not needed really but for the avoidance of doubt....

Nice work. Next time you need to troubleshoot something you will be a pro because you know how this stuff works!

@Wulfrat - I have been following this thread and learning like everyone else.I printed the diagram and am making changes you suggested but there appears to be a contradiction. Please help me understand where I might be missing something.

First - you have him move the RED Inverter wire to the right side of the shut off switch, that makes perfect sense to me.

Then you say, same for the Red/positive from the Inverter, that should go directly to the battery and bypass the positive buss bar.

Is there a line missing in the drawing or can you help me understand what you meant here?

Thank you and this is great work, as you said, we all learn along the way.

Brian

[rich.dev]

Originally Posted by AirstreamJim

I've supplied the dealership with the attached schematic for them to follow when they fix their poor workmanship. Please let me know if there's anything seriously wrong with it before it's too late.

Thanks again for everyone's help.

Jim

Jim, I've enclosed a basic layout of the batteries, shunt, disconnect switch and fuses in sequence I believe they should be. Looks like your negative from the battery to the shunt is ok, however, in your configuration I believe the inverter negative should connect directly to the output side of the shunt.
Also, in my enclosed diagram you will notice an ANL fuse coming from the poss side of the battery, then a disconnect switch and the inverter connected directly to the disconnect switch.

[wulfraat]

Did this real quick per the original diagram in this thread...

[richard5933]

I would add one thing - a circuit breaker between the solar controller and the positive connection to the system. Victron recommends a circuit breaker in that location, and by using a switchable breaker it's possible to use it to disconnect the solar system from the trailer's 12v system. This is quite helpful when you're working on something and need to be sure that there is no power coming into the trailer.

[AirstreamJim]

Originally Posted by rich.dev

Jim, I've enclosed a basic layout of the batteries, shunt, disconnect switch and fuses in sequence I believe they should be

For some reason this diagram completely confuses me, and I’m not sure why…I’m usually very adept at following electrical diagrams. :-(

[AirstreamJim]

Originally Posted by wulfraat

Did this real quick per the original diagram in this thread...

Now this I understand.

Thank you so much! I’ll give this to the dealership when we bring it back.

I wrote them a long email last night outlining the issues and including my original schematic and some photos. I got a phone call from the service manager at 8:40 this morning apologizing for the poor work. They’ll be waiting for me on 7/31 first thing and they’ll get it corrected the same day. And I’ll check the whole thing over before I take it home.

I’m satisfied with their response so far.

Jim

[wulfraat]

Sweet glad they will get this fixed up right quick!

[rich.dev]

Originally Posted by AirstreamJim

For some reason this diagram completely confuses me, and I’m not sure why…I’m usually very adept at following electrical diagrams. :-(

If it's the SafetHub 150, sorry I should've clarified, the SafetyHub 150 replaces your neg and pos buss bars. You don't need it, just a more compact way of combining the neg and pos buss bars. Anyway, the diagram from Wulfraat is good.

I do agree with richard5933 to add a circuit breaker between the solar panels and solar charge controller on the positive side.

[vanderwielen]

In my designs, I use a Victron Battery Protect devices. It can be set to disconnect your DC loads BEFORE your Battleborns go into a disconnect state via their BMS. It's only about $100. It also allows you to disconnect all DC loads via bluetooth if you desire.

[uncle_bob]

Originally Posted by vanderwielen

In my designs, I use a Victron Battery Protect devices. It can be set to disconnect your DC loads BEFORE your Battleborns go into a disconnect state via their BMS. It's only about $100. It also allows you to disconnect all DC loads via bluetooth if you desire.

Hi

If you are talking about the BP-xxx Victron devices, be aware that they have some *really* odd habits. It is unclear to many just what the target audience is. I had a couple of them (BP-220) in my system and eventually pulled them all out.

Bob