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Old 07-04-2020, 11:02 AM   #1
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Just read a blog on the package from AS

Does anyone have any details on "Airstream Power Plus™ Lithium package" Thanks

KC
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Old 07-06-2020, 03:33 PM   #2
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I am interested in this as well. Does anyone have any info?
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Old 07-06-2020, 04:06 PM   #3
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Old 07-18-2020, 01:47 PM   #4
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Anyone have an update on this?
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Old 07-18-2020, 05:43 PM   #5
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Only thing found is the original blog post, as referenced in the OP title:

https://www.airstream.com/blog/whats...avel-trailers/

“Battery and Solar Updates: Batteries will not be included as standard equipment to ensure our customers are getting new fresh batteries during delivery. If the optional solar package is selected from the factory, travel trailers will ship with 2 AGM batteries. The all-new Airstream Power Plus™ Lithium package is available for install at dealerships for advanced energy storage and use.

Upgraded Progressive Dynamics 1,000 watt inverter on applicable models

Upgraded Victron solar controller on applicable models.”
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Old 07-18-2020, 06:11 PM   #6
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We have a Globetrotter 25 on order that will be delivered in late November so I was interested in this too. Our buddy, Patrick from Colonial told me yesterday that Airstream will be announcing the package details soon. It will be a dealer installed option. Apparently it will be compatible with the new converters that are about to be used and it will be a complete package.
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Old 07-18-2020, 06:40 PM   #7
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Thanks for the update. Patrick usually has his finger right on the pulse.
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Old 07-18-2020, 07:04 PM   #8
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Apparently it will be compatible with the new converters that are about to be used and it will be a complete package.
The new converters will be selectable as to lithium or AGM, FLA.
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Old 07-28-2020, 05:57 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by OTRA15 View Post
Only thing found is the original blog post, as referenced in the OP title:

https://www.airstream.com/blog/whats...avel-trailers/

“Battery and Solar Updates: Batteries will not be included as standard equipment to ensure our customers are getting new fresh batteries during delivery. If the optional solar package is selected from the factory, travel trailers will ship with 2 AGM batteries. The all-new Airstream Power Plus™ Lithium package is available for install at dealerships for advanced energy storage and use.

Upgraded Progressive Dynamics 1,000 watt inverter on applicable models

Upgraded Victron solar controller on applicable models.”
I'm at JC now and asked about the package. Each battery is 100AH, new solar controller and new inverter. They quoted "around" $3500 to retrofit the system into a 2019, so I can only assume this will be an across the board backwards compatible upgrade.

In my mind, the run down to 10% is the main advantage without destroying the batteries...but I'm not hearing anything about adding a Battery monitor system to ensure proper load down of the batteries.

I just rewired my trailer to support the Victron BMV-712 Smart and while it was fairly "straight forward".....until it wasn't. They use two separate grounds on each battery so how will you know when you truly achieve 10%? I had to cut the battery post connection and convert it to a heavy gauge ring connector to get all the grounds to return to the single point of the battery shunt to measure all of the returning current. I am not sure if Airstream is doing that as part of the upgrade. So yes, you will get longer run times and better battery performance, but IMO, no appreciable way to actually measure and know the true state of the batteries condition.....on the assumption they are just dropping in new batteries, converter, and solar controller......without properly rewiring they grounding system.

We are going to pass on the upgrade for now, maybe next year when more is known of how they will actually do the process of converting it and what the true upgrade actually looks like.

That is what I've been told thus far about it from the service center manager.
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Old 07-28-2020, 07:07 AM   #10
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More details,(first hand experience), needed...I wouldn't be surprised if the 'bang for buck' quotient still leans toward DIY.

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Old 07-28-2020, 07:35 AM   #11
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...I wouldn't be surprised if the 'bang for buck' quotient still leans toward DIY.

Let me play "Captain Obvious" for a moment: DIY should always be cheaper, because you're retaining someone else's profit margins.


But on a more serious note...I can imagine there is a lot of appeal for a manufacturer-supplied Li-ion setup; some people just want a turn-key solution. I literally have a PhD in battery technology, and I have not yet pulled the trigger on installing Li-ion system because there are too many degrees of freedom (i.e. decision points) for me to process quickly. By the time I specify a system, run a cost-benefit analysis, estimate total cost of ownership, something new comes out or someone changes their price points.

If we "experts" have a hard time figuring out the best solution for our needs, I can imagine the set-it-and-forget-it crowd wants someone trustworthy to do all the math.

DISCLAIMER: Yes, I am aware that any of the systems I look at would probably be adequate for my needs. But as a DIYer, I really want to install the best system for my needs with the simplest user interface at the lowest budget. I guess it's true: "Perfect is the enemy of good enough".
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Old 07-28-2020, 05:18 PM   #12
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I'm inclined to agree with jaybauman as to the cost/benefit factor.

Cold weather is hard on batteries, but it is my understanding that Li-ion batteries are more susceptible to cold weather than lead acid or AGM, therefore it is recommended that they be installed inside a trailer for maximum benefit.

I'm going to be the outlier there, but with proper energy management and attentive monitoring to the variables that affect battery life, I manage very well with my 160W Zamp suitcase solar and two lead acid batteries. With proper maintenance I can make lead acid batteries last as long as AGM batteries. (Also, a suitcase panel is much more effective than roof mounted panels. Moving the suitcase panel with the sun is an opportunity for me to get up out of my chair, move around.)

There are two factors that come into play that might make my situation different from than that of other people. 1) Our 19cb Bambi has less energy need that larger Airstreams. 2) We have a Goal Zero lithium-ion battery (with a solar panel) that we use, while off-grid, for charging electronic devices. My wife works remotely, so I think this would be necessary no matter what battery set-up we had in our Airstream, no matter which model we owned.

If upon reading the above, you think that I must have been raised by German-Americans who never got over the Great Depression, then you're absolutely correct.
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Old 07-29-2020, 01:56 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by kittmaster View Post
I'm at JC now and asked about the package. . . .
. . .
We are going to pass on the upgrade for now, maybe next year when more is known of how they will actually do the process of converting it and what the true upgrade actually looks like.
. . .
That is what I've been told thus far about it from the service center manager.
Thanks for the detailed post.

Did they review any cold-weather-charging limitations of these batteries with you? Is it true that they should not be charged if their internal temp is below freezing? In many installations, in the colder northern climes, this would often be true during storage, or when preparing for a trip IMO.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfreeham View Post
. . .
Cold weather is hard on batteries, but it is my understanding that Li-ion batteries are more susceptible to cold weather than lead acid or AGM, therefore it is recommended that they be installed inside a trailer for maximum benefit.
. . .
Curious for your thoughts on the questions asked above.

FYI search results here for "lithium batteries charging limits freezing weather" -- https://www.google.com/search?q=lith...=airforums.com

I guess many of the lithium batteries [and BMS brains] have low-temp sensors which block charging in freezing weather, but that is of little help if you are stuck someplace, and don't have enough battery energy to run the heat, right?



Thanks,
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Old 08-03-2020, 07:22 AM   #14
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Thanks for the detailed post.

Did they review any cold-weather-charging limitations of these batteries with you? Is it true that they should not be charged if their internal temp is below freezing? In many installations, in the colder northern climes, this would often be true during storage, or when preparing for a trip IMO.



Curious for your thoughts on the questions asked above.
It was an off the cuff inquiry about the retrofitting of the system itself that crossed my mind while there based on what is known from the blog post. I didn't get down in the dirt details because it was with Kevin the service advisor (had to have someone summon him for the discussion) who I could tell was just trying to convey the info and move along.

He is a good advisor, but very short with people so I just asked what the conversion was and it's cost and then listened......I was of the opinion I'll dig deeper if I decide to jump into the end of the pool.
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Old 08-04-2020, 09:42 PM   #15
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New Lithium Package

I am considering upsizing to a 2021 FC 23FBT and asked my guy at Windish Airstream in Denver about this. He checked and indicated that the package includes two Battle Born 100 Ah batteries, probably with a monitor, although what is included beyond the batteries wasn't clear.
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Old 08-05-2020, 02:46 AM   #16
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It was an off the cuff inquiry about the retrofitting of the system itself that crossed my mind while there based on what is known from the blog post. I didn't get down in the dirt details because it was with Kevin the service advisor (had to have someone summon him for the discussion) who I could tell was just trying to convey the info and move along.

He is a good advisor, but very short with people so I just asked what the conversion was and it's cost and then listened......I was of the opinion I'll dig deeper if I decide to jump into the end of the pool.
Thanks for the update.
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Old 08-22-2020, 09:03 AM   #17
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Still no firm info on Power Plus?

Hey all,

Newbie here, super excited to be ordering my first Airstream (2021 27 GT) and I'm following this thread closely, as I'm highly interested in Lithium over AGMs.

Spoke to Airstream of VA and was told that the only way to get Power Plus is to purchase the Factory Solar with AGMs and then pay again to have it upgraded to the Power Plus package. Maybe I'm missing something here...but definitely does not sound right to pay for AGMs then pay to have them replaced with Lithium (Battle Born 100s?).

Last post on this thread was about 2 weeks ago so I'm hoping there is some new info or insights out there by now.

Thanks in advance if you can chime in!

Derek in Charlottesville VA
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Old 08-22-2020, 09:55 AM   #18
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I just ordered a 2021 Flying Cloud 25 fbt with the factory solar and tentatively plan to do the lithium upgrade, although I didn't include it in the original order. The dealer didn't mention the necessity of ordering factory solar in order to do the lithium, but I intended to get the solar anyhow. You do end up with the AGM batteries, unfortunately. If I get the lithium, I plan to either sell them or include them in the deal when I sell my 2015 Sport 22, as it still is using the original Interstates. As a bit of an update on the lithium package, it includes two Battleborn 100Ah batteries, a monitor (likely the Victron that is generally in that package), a battery heater, and either a new charge controller or tweaks to the existing one (which wasn't clear). It would be nice to know a bit more about the details, which still seem to be somewhat lacking. Hopefully those will emerge before my trailer arrives and I have to choose.
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Old 08-23-2020, 03:15 PM   #19
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Thanks WP53, appreciate the additional info on what the PowerPlus package includes. Hope it works out well for you!
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Old 09-12-2020, 06:01 AM   #20
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I have a 2021 Caravel 20FB with the 90 watt solar package and 2 AGMs, and purchased 180 watt portable.

Curious about lithium batteries so I’ll follow.
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