Is there a new rule to 3amps

[rideair]

In the days of old, the rule was "3amps" will be provided to keep your batteries charged during the rally. Please note: that was the rule for trailers built in the 60's, 70's, 80's and 90's. When folks would go to a rally, turn the refrigerator over to gas, use only lights that needed to be one at night, run the furnace as needed.

Now with everyone running around with new trailers, 12v refrigerators, water-based heating systems, etc.. I have "no clue" what the minimum would be if someone was putting on a rally and wanted to offer limited power??

Since my newest trailer is from 1996 and is still old-school, can someone make me smarter on the subject of what is the minimum no days?

I don't want to hear generators running all night even if they are the Honda's. I have three Honda's (2200) and the thought is run them during the day to help keep folks batteries up, but off at night to keep it quiet.

Willing to learn

Enjoy,

[Bill M.]

I have not seen a 3 amp rally in a long time. Everything has been full hookups. 3 amps will not run my latest converter. The times I was on 3 amps people were talking about running their microwaves. And the power kept going off. Maybe there are 3 amp sites at rallies now and I just missed them.

Frankly I would rather have generator sites with restrictions on operating hours.

[ventport]

3 amps is a battery tender, meant to keep your battery charged when not in use.

[overlander64]

Greetings Rideair!

I attended nearly every International Rally from 1998 (Boise, ID) to 2009 (Madison, WI). During that time, the International Rally began changing -- those first few rallies were minimal electric with a generator section. Gradually, around 2004 (Lansing, MI), I believe, the club began to offer 30-AMP sections that were typically operated off of generators -- the additional fee was rather steep, and if I remember correctly amounted to between 20% and 30% of the Rally fee for regular parking. I gladly paid the upcharge as I never have been able to take heat and humidity well, and we nearly always seemed to be experiencing a near record or record heat wave during the International Rally. During this time period, we didn't have to ask or wonder when the International Rally would be held -- it was held such that the last day was on July 4 -- Wally Byam's Birthday.

I will never forget my first International Rally in Boise. I was parked in the Vintage section next to Kathy Hunt who helped immensely with my introduction to the world of the International Rally. One of my first stops was the vendors area where I made immediate arrangements for two Fantastic Vent Fans for my Overlander -- that first night with minimal electric and daytime temperatures near 100 degrees had me looking for any way to increase the cooling in my trailer. Kathy also helped me to find someone who could help me setup my old A and E Travel Awn 5000 as I hadn't received any instructions with the trailer for its operation (the Internet was still in its Infancy). Over the next several years, to make my International Rally stays more pleasant, I added three solar panels and three AGM deep cycle batteries along with a 1,000 WATT Inverter. I am at the beginning of year 29 with that 1964 Overlander Land Yacht, and if all goes as planned, we will be in attendance at this year's International Rally in Sedalia, MO -- hard to miss and International Rally when it is only about 325 miles from home. I didn't take my trailer, but I did take in several days of the 2011 International Rally in Du Quoin, IL as I was only living about 25 miles from there at the time.

I think that I am going to really enjoy the campground level services at this International Rally -- it will be quite a change from any other International Rally that I have attended.

Kevin

[JohnTF]

1st off --- a battery monitoring system , and collect data .
Then plan & build .

Basically if you monitor your consumption , then you know what you need to replace .

Once you have some spec.s , you can make choices - like a budget option , charging rate [ as long as you do not exceed manufactures max ] if you are able to take more time to recharge .

vs. trying to recharge as fast as possible [ again within spec.s ] - cost more .

As mentioned above " 3 amps is for storage / non-use " .

Are you looking at solar ?
Are you looking at lithium ?

[gypsydad]

3amps would not cut it in NC or any of the hot/huid states when AC is needed...no generators allowed either. These rally's and parks today are capable of supporting the large groups and if there were no AC, doubt you would see this many folks attending when it's hot and humid.

[Bill M.]

3 amps has never really been 3 amps. That is just nomenclature. You basically have a number of 15 amp circuits that total a lot more than the power source will provide if they all pull at once. Hence people hit the hair dryer or microwave and it does not immediately shut down so they decide they are good. An yes, it is an interesting question. What is a minimum AC current for a very new Airstream to run on? With and electric fridge and a lithium battery system that draws a high charge rate I expect it takes a good bit of amps at some times.

[uncle_bob]

Hi

Looking at this "on a new trailer":

3 amps at 120V is 30 amps at 12V (with a 100% efficient converter).

The most any of these DC powered fridges pull is 10.5A. On average that one pulls about 4 A (all at 12V). The more typical ones pull about 6A max.

Turn on a fan and you might pull 2A. Turn on a few LED lights might be 2A.

Many trailers have monitoring / control systems, figure another 2A (again at 12V) for that.

That works out to about 12A average at 12V. You still have another 18A "to spare".

How much do you need for charging your battery? Your typical converter only puts out about 30A. (No it's not anywhere close to 100% efficient .. ). Hopefully they don't charge for long .....

So, *could* you get by with a 3A "allowance" at a rally? As long as you don't run any 120V stuff, you probably could.

Bob

[overlander64]

My practical experience at International Rallies from 1998 through 2009, at those Rallies where the 30-AMP option wasn't offered, I managed with my Vintage trailers -- either the 1964 Airstream or 1978 Argosy. Many times it was far from comfortable, and I can remember filling the bathtub in my Airstream with cool water so that my two small Chihuahuas could take a cooling swim when we were at the International Rally in Dayton, Ohio during one of the traditional International Heat Waves where we had heat index numbers over 100 degrees several days. As much as I disliked running my refrigerator on LP Gas, it was operating on LP Gas, I had 2 Fantastic Vent Fans running (one on intake and one on exhaust) as well as two Fantastic Endless Breeze (12-Volt DC) box fans running. My use of the incandescent lights was minimal, but I did make frequent use of my 12-Volt DC Television/VCR combination. I can't remember every having a power failure/blown circuit while on the Limited Electric setup.

The one time that I remember trouble was when I was parked in the Optional 30-AMP section, and we had a severe thunderstorm roll through when lightening stuck the generator (or very near the generator) resulting in a surge through the electric lines -- this was at the 2005 International in Springfield, Missouri. I was in my 1978 Argosy Minuet 6.0 Metre that year, and was in the trailer during the storm and witnessed the lightening strike. Didn't realize that anything was damaged in my trailer as everything continued to function (this was in the days before I purchased a surge supressor). I learned on my next camping trip that something was wrong with my 2-year old Coleman Mach series Air Conditioner, and the repair shop determined that it was that the start capacitor had been destroyed. They told me that it appeared to have been exposed to a power surge, and my immediate thought was the lightening strike as that was the only time that I was aware of a power surge.

Kevin

[rideair]

Having knowledge of the International Rallies of old where a “3-Amp” connection would be provided to keep your batteries charge shows gray hair is on my head. Yes, there was a time sitting in Springfield, MO parked in the Vintage area with a pool 12’ across, 3’ foot deep helping to keep us cool in the July summer heat, Fanstastic Vents running full blast in the 1966 Overlander with the M52 refrigerator on gas, we had a great time as a family. If memory is correct, that International Rally also had limited 30amp power hookups with water and a few included sewer. Even Perry, GA was an interesting International Rally with the great “Motorhome” vote. It was a rally spent traveling in a 1968 International Travelall (no AC) pulling a 1966 Safari (no AC) in the 100-degree heat of July with all three Famstastic roof vents sucking air through the trailer to help beat the summer heat to the point the trailer door could be sucked shut if left open about three inches from being fully closed.

Guess the question may really be “Does a new Airstream trailer require more power just to keep the light on?” or “Do the average owners of a new Airstreams require more power just to camp?” Looking back at some of the pictures of old and how/where owners went and camped compared to today, I’m not sure it’s really the same. Don’t get me wrong, I commend those with solar, extended water, etc. that are using the trailers more like in the days of old and maybe more are doing so than it appears on the outside looking in.

Know “I’m a hypocrite”. Owning both a 1956 Safari Front Kitchen and a 1996 34’ Front Kitchen, love the life of luxury in the big trailer, it does make camping comfy. Not to defend my actions, the 1996 34’ can still be used with little to no power since the refrigerator/water heater can run on propane, though it does bother me, both items require 12volts to do so vs. the old-style units that it was just light the pilot-light and the units worked, no 12volts needed. Maybe one of these days I’ll purchase a meter to see how many amps it takes to keep the 1996 trailer up and running due to the 12 volts required to run the appliances.

Can’t imagine a newer trailer has the same “little to no draw” of power to keep the batteries charged like the old trailers of the 60’s-80’s, though the old “univolt” was able to cook a battery and most likely had more draw, compared to the newer Inteli-Power used in today’s trailers.
Well, I’ll plan the rally, bring my three Honda’s for those that need to charge during the day, I also have a full RV power-tower with the 50/30/20amp plugs, connected via a main 100amp breaker in the house, so that should help.

Kinda miss the old style in the middle of a field rally where there was at best limited power, no generators running all day/night, show up with full fresh, empty gray/black and enjoy vs. more rallies being held in campgrounds so everyone can run two AC units while cooking in the microwave oven.
Really starting to sound like the old guy that I’ve become!

Enjoy,

[BikeCamper]

Originally Posted by rideair

Having knowledge of the International Rallies of old where a “3-Amp” connection would be provided to keep your batteries charge shows gray hair is on my head. Yes, there was a time sitting in Springfield, MO parked in the Vintage area with a pool 12’ across, 3’ foot deep helping to keep us cool in the July summer heat, Fanstastic Vents running full blast in the 1966 Overlander with the M52 refrigerator on gas, we had a great time as a family. If memory is correct, that International Rally also had limited 30amp power hookups with water and a few included sewer. Even Perry, GA was an interesting International Rally with the great “Motorhome” vote. It was a rally spent traveling in a 1968 International Travelall (no AC) pulling a 1966 Safari (no AC) in the 100-degree heat of July with all three Famstastic roof vents sucking air through the trailer to help beat the summer heat to the point the trailer door could be sucked shut if left open about three inches from being fully closed.

Guess the question may really be “Does a new Airstream trailer require more power just to keep the light on?” or “Do the average owners of a new Airstreams require more power just to camp?” Looking back at some of the pictures of old and how/where owners went and camped compared to today, I’m not sure it’s really the same. Don’t get me wrong, I commend those with solar, extended water, etc. that are using the trailers more like in the days of old and maybe more are doing so than it appears on the outside looking in.

Know “I’m a hypocrite”. Owning both a 1956 Safari Front Kitchen and a 1996 34’ Front Kitchen, love the life of luxury in the big trailer, it does make camping comfy. Not to defend my actions, the 1996 34’ can still be used with little to no power since the refrigerator/water heater can run on propane, though it does bother me, both items require 12volts to do so vs. the old-style units that it was just light the pilot-light and the units worked, no 12volts needed. Maybe one of these days I’ll purchase a meter to see how many amps it takes to keep the 1996 trailer up and running due to the 12 volts required to run the appliances.

Can’t imagine a newer trailer has the same “little to no draw” of power to keep the batteries charged like the old trailers of the 60’s-80’s, though the old “univolt” was able to cook a battery and most likely had more draw, compared to the newer Inteli-Power used in today’s trailers.
Well, I’ll plan the rally, bring my three Honda’s for those that need to charge during the day, I also have a full RV power-tower with the 50/30/20amp plugs, connected via a main 100amp breaker in the house, so that should help.

Kinda miss the old style in the middle of a field rally where there was at best limited power, no generators running all day/night, show up with full fresh, empty gray/black and enjoy vs. more rallies being held in campgrounds so everyone can run two AC units while cooking in the microwave oven.
Really starting to sound like the old guy that I’ve become!

Enjoy,

Nah, the old guys are the ones who grouse about the hassles of sissy holding tanks and miss the good old days when drains dumped into little pits in the ground that they dug themselves. Back when men were men. If only we could all go back to the good old days.

[rideair]

Bikecamper,

Yep, know what you mean. Compared to now days where the young guys send all of that same stuff down a common PVC pipe to the huge thing called a septic-tank which then everyone’s affluent travels to a distribution box that has a bunch of perforated pipes coming out of it which are buried in the ground. If those old guys only knew how they could create a system that could be used over and over to get rid of people's poop, never moving where the black stuff goes, think of all the time they could have saved not having to dig those holes in the ground over and over.

Enjoy,

[ITSNO60]

Originally Posted by rideair

then everyone’s affluent travels to a distribution box

Enjoy,

And you've just demonstrated something interesting, that the only difference between "affluent" and "effluent" is one vowel!

[rideair]

Just a Freudian Slip!

[Bearstream01]

Hi rideair,
I literally just watched Luv Subbin attend a "boondocking rally". It was at a park with full hookups available, but they didnt use them!!! So I say, plan your rally the way you want it to be. Those who like boondocking/dry camping will come and have a great time. Those that dont, well, this one isnt for them. Dont forget, included in the "newer trailers" you mention is the Trade Wind.

[eubank]

Small current like 3A is fine, though I get as much from the solar plus lithium plus fine-tunable inverter / charger. It wouldn't be hard to hold out for quite a while.

But it does get hot in the summertime and can certainly limit what you plan to do with either limited or no incoming current. I am simply no longer willing to sit in a blazing hot rig with bright sun at over a hundred degrees. Ain't gonna happen (though it did, miserably, this last summer at 6500 feet last summer).

Lynn

[akarakos]

For everybody out there saying the three amp rule really doesn’t exist we referred to any of the previous Alumapaloozas at Jackson Center The fax page from the 2024 gathering follows:
Both the Holloway and Factory camping areas are on grass, with water and 3-amp electric hookups (except Generator sites). The cost is the same for either location.

[SilverCabin]

Another old timer here. Every year in December, my Club has a rally in Florida with "limited" power and shared water, no sewer. It's mostly cool in Florida at that time of the year, so it works. All the refrigerators and water heaters are switched to gas. Then we divvy up the power, three or four Airstreams to a 30 amp circuit and two or three to a 15 amp circuit. That's enough to keep the batteries charged and power the TVs and the furnace, if needed, on a chilly morning. (I'm not sure if they have dealt with any electric refrigerators yet.) Boil a little water on the stove for instant coffee or tea. Or, a little coordination among the neighbors and everyone gets to make a pot of coffee—one at a time or cook something in the microwave.

Randy

[nvestysly]

Hi Paul,

First... I want to know more about the rally you're planning. When, where, who? You know we always enjoy seeing you and we like your neck of the woods. I'm hoping the thoughts are mutual - if not for me, then certainly for my better half!

Regarding your question... I think there is such a thing as rally power, say 3A to 5A or so. As another person mentioned, Alumapalooza uses this approach and we've attended other rallies in the not too distant past that only provide rally power. We've also attended urban rallies in which generators are only permitted during the day. There are boondocking rallies planned and offered by WBCCI - as an example, a boondocking rally is highlighted in the Summer 2024 Blue Beret.

I think if you set the expectation of "limited power," and inform all potential participants in advance, you should be fine. No CPAP machines unless they operate on the 12V battery system. No microwaves. No coffee makers. No air conditioning.

Some people may have high capacity batteries and inverter systems with other means of recharging batteries such as solar or DC-DC converters.

The time of the year and the amount of shade available may be a big factor.

[uncle_bob]

Originally Posted by eubank

Small current like 3A is fine, though I get as much from the solar plus lithium plus fine-tunable inverter / charger. It wouldn't be hard to hold out for quite a while.

But it does get hot in the summertime and can certainly limit what you plan to do with either limited or no incoming current. I am simply no longer willing to sit in a blazing hot rig with bright sun at over a hundred degrees. Ain't gonna happen (though it did, miserably, this last summer at 6500 feet last summer).

Lynn

Hi

Since we're talking about 3A at 120V, that would be 30A at 12V. You get the 3A for 24 hours a day. Net would be "720 AH a day" from solar.

That's a pretty hefty solar setup.

Bob