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04-24-2022, 10:43 AM
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#21
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3 Rivet Member 
Tahoe Vista
, California
Join Date: Jul 2021
Posts: 118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guskmg
Remember all these ratings are figured at sea leval and must be increased as you go up in altitude and add more for hotter days. It is called volumetric efficiency and can be determined from a Koch Chart.
guskmg
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Thanks! I had forgot about that. We live and camp at higher altitude so a more powerful gen is most likely needed. Found one that is 3200w starting and 2800 running which should be able to handle AC startup and then run a few other items if needed.
Thanks!
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04-24-2022, 11:21 AM
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#22
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Rivet Master 
2013 31' Classic
billings
, Montana
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 3,656
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Harbor freight 4000….30 amp. Does a good job ..$275 
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04-24-2022, 11:59 AM
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#23
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3 Rivet Member 
Tahoe Vista
, California
Join Date: Jul 2021
Posts: 118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tjdonahoe
Harbor freight 4000….30 amp. Does a good job ..$275  
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Thanks! I took a look at that one, but it’s too large. I want to get one I can store in the interior closet when not in use. Most of the single handle, carry type looks like they will fit in the closet.
Looking at this one here…
https://www.homedepot.com/p/3300-Wat...300i/319812655
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04-24-2022, 12:17 PM
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#24
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Rivet Master 
2019 25' Flying Cloud
Ocala
, Florida
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 1,257
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One shortfall I had with the Champion 2,500 generator was the lack of an hour meter. I ordered these:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...tag=ratio07-20
It works by looping 5 coils of hook up wire around the plug, inductively sending a timer pulse back to the unit. Joe Henry would be proud.(*) No batteries, it must have a very low current requirement and an internal capacitor/storage device of some kind, I guess.
I found the trickiest part was making the loops stay in place. I ended up putting a figure 8 knot in one end of the wire, then sliding a partially closed zip tie over both ends. Loop through five times (needle nose here), pull taught, being careful to capture the figure 8 knot within the zip tie, as you slowly cinch it all down. Trim the plug side wire and zip tie neatly.
I didn't have a good hole to feed the wire in the Champions, so I just drilled a 9/64" at a suitable location and fed the wire up neatly, then slipped it into the channel of the pickup unit. I attached the pickup unit with double sided velcro.
Ran both at least 6 minutes to make sure the loops were sensing (little hour meter flashes) and the counter advanced to 0.1.
*Only an EE would get this joke.
__________________
“Character is doing the right thing when nobody’s looking. There are too many people who think that the only thing that’s right is to get by, and the only thing that’s wrong is to get caught.” - J.C. Watts Jr.
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04-24-2022, 12:20 PM
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#25
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Rivet Master 
2019 25' Flying Cloud
Ocala
, Florida
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 1,257
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Double J
Thanks! I took a look at that one, but it’s too large. I want to get one I can store in the interior closet when not in use. Most of the single handle, carry type looks like they will fit in the closet.
Looking at this one here…
https://www.homedepot.com/p/3300-Wat...300i/319812655
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That looks like it would do the job, but it appears to be gasoline-powered only? Maybe I missed it.
I'm not sure my DW would allow me to store a gas-powered genny inside the coach, but it might work for you.
__________________
“Character is doing the right thing when nobody’s looking. There are too many people who think that the only thing that’s right is to get by, and the only thing that’s wrong is to get caught.” - J.C. Watts Jr.
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04-24-2022, 05:41 PM
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#26
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Rivet Master 
2022 27' Globetrotter
DALLAS
, TX
Join Date: Apr 2022
Posts: 1,674
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Llando88
One shortfall I had with the Champion 2,500 generator was the lack of an hour meter. I ordered these:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...tag=ratio07-20
It works by looping 5 coils of hook up wire around the plug, inductively sending a timer pulse back to the unit. Joe Henry would be proud.(*) No batteries, it must have a very low current requirement and an internal capacitor/storage device of some kind, I guess.
I found the trickiest part was making the loops stay in place. I ended up putting a figure 8 knot in one end of the wire, then sliding a partially closed zip tie over both ends. Loop through five times (needle nose here), pull taught, being careful to capture the figure 8 knot within the zip tie, as you slowly cinch it all down. Trim the plug side wire and zip tie neatly.
I didn't have a good hole to feed the wire in the Champions, so I just drilled a 9/64" at a suitable location and fed the wire up neatly, then slipped it into the channel of the pickup unit. I attached the pickup unit with double sided velcro.
Ran both at least 6 minutes to make sure the loops were sensing (little hour meter flashes) and the counter advanced to 0.1.
*Only an EE would get this joke. 
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Very funny Llando88.
Thanks for the reference. I’ll wasn’t aware such a product exists. I’ll be sure and snag one of these for my future Honda EU2200i if it doesn’t come with one.
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04-26-2022, 10:52 AM
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#27
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3 Rivet Member 
Tahoe Vista
, California
Join Date: Jul 2021
Posts: 118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Llando88
That looks like it would do the job, but it appears to be gasoline-powered only? Maybe I missed it.
I'm not sure my DW would allow me to store a gas-powered genny inside the coach, but it might work for you. 
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It is gasoline powered only. I wanted a dual fuel for the reason you mentioned as I believe it would not smell as bad, but I am unable to find a dual fuel 3000w or more generator that is small enough to fit in the closet. The closest one I can find is the champion 2500w.
What about keeping the gas generator in a thick plastic bag when not in use and in the closet?
Also, where does everyone store their generator while camping when it is not in use?
Our TV is a Yukon and the wife will not like that being kept in there and the exterior storage compartment openings on the airstream are too small to fit a generator.
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04-26-2022, 01:10 PM
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#28
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Rivet Master 
2019 25' Flying Cloud
Houston
, Texas
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 1,151
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Double J
It is gasoline powered only. I wanted a dual fuel for the reason you mentioned as I believe it would not smell as bad, but I am unable to find a dual fuel 3000w or more generator that is small enough to fit in the closet. The closest one I can find is the champion 2500w.
What about keeping the gas generator in a thick plastic bag when not in use and in the closet?
Also, where does everyone store their generator while camping when it is not in use?
Our TV is a Yukon and the wife will not like that being kept in there and the exterior storage compartment openings on the airstream are too small to fit a generator.
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Just get the EasyStart and a smaller propane generator. We carry our converted EU2200i in the back of our SUV. Simple.
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04-26-2022, 02:38 PM
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#29
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3 Rivet Member 
Tahoe Vista
, California
Join Date: Jul 2021
Posts: 118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DCPAS
Just get the EasyStart and a smaller propane generator. We carry our converted EU2200i in the back of our SUV. Simple.
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Will that still be enough power? The 2500w champion shows a running wattage of only 1665w with a propane tank, at sea level. I live and camp at 4K to 7k.
We have a 13.5 btu AC and from what I can tell it needs about 1970 watts for running wattage. If I wanted to use the AC it seems like the only thing I could run would be the AC and that would really be pushing it at altitude.
Does this sound right or are my calculations way off?
Thanks!
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04-26-2022, 03:01 PM
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#30
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Rivet Master 
2019 25' Flying Cloud
Houston
, Texas
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 1,151
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Double J
Will that still be enough power? The 2500w champion shows a running wattage of only 1665w with a propane tank, at sea level. I live and camp at 4K to 7k.
We have a 13.5 btu AC and from what I can tell it needs about 1970 watts for running wattage. If I wanted to use the AC it seems like the only thing I could run would be the AC and that would really be pushing it at altitude.
Does this sound right or are my calculations way off?
Thanks!
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I recall others have said they can run their A/C at those altitudes with an EasyStart. I do not have that experience yet. Hopefully they can chime in. You could also ask Micro Air
The thing that makes me wonder about some small generators is engine capacity. The Honda is 121cc while that Champion and a bunch of others are 79cc. Big difference. Based on my use, I suspect the Honda is a bit underrated, but I am not sure. We have the Genconnex converted Honda.
My plan was to buy a small propane generator which could be linked if it ended up that we needed two. That thinking included needing to put the thing in the back of our SUV.
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04-26-2022, 03:22 PM
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#31
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Rivet Master 
2022 28' Pottery Barn
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
, California
Join Date: Oct 2021
Posts: 652
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We have 2 of the Champion 2500 Dual Fuel gennys and an Easy Start on both AC units. Have not run both AC units yet or a single above 1000’ but when I do, I will report on 1 vs. 2 for both the gennys and the ACs.
Should be in a few weeks.
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04-26-2022, 06:28 PM
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#32
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Rivet Master 
2019 25' Flying Cloud
Ocala
, Florida
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 1,257
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WellSaid11
We have 2 of the Champion 2500 Dual Fuel gennys and an Easy Start on both AC units. Have not run both AC units yet or a single above 1000’ but when I do, I will report on 1 vs. 2 for both the gennys and the ACs.
Should be in a few weeks.
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Same here for our single 13.5k btu, but it will be mid-summer before we reach Colorado and camp at altitude. DW plans for us to visit Telluride (9k feet or something?), among other places in CO, apparently.
__________________
“Character is doing the right thing when nobody’s looking. There are too many people who think that the only thing that’s right is to get by, and the only thing that’s wrong is to get caught.” - J.C. Watts Jr.
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04-26-2022, 06:33 PM
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#33
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Rivet Master 
2019 25' Flying Cloud
Ocala
, Florida
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 1,257
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Double J
Will that still be enough power? The 2500w champion shows a running wattage of only 1665w with a propane tank, at sea level. I live and camp at 4K to 7k.
We have a 13.5 btu AC and from what I can tell it needs about 1970 watts for running wattage. If I wanted to use the AC it seems like the only thing I could run would be the AC and that would really be pushing it at altitude.
Does this sound right or are my calculations way off?
Thanks!
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No, I'd say your estimate is ok. For what it's worth, I did a back of the envelope spreadsheet (retired EE) and came up with the below. Don't quote me or anything, and I am not 100% of the numbers, but it's what I have at the moment. Happy to have real world input on this; spreadsheets are great, right up until they Collide with Reality.
First attachment is the "power available" analysis. Second attachment is the "load" analysis, including the AC. Anything in yellow background is a compution. AC Current is Watts divided by AC Volts (120). I sourced the DC Amps of 5.2A of the Fridge running from Nova Cool web site, computed Watts, then divided by 120 to get equivalent AC Amps (or I hope so).
I am "in the margin" for this assessment, if I run anything but the AC and fridge. And we plan to camp in the hills this summer. Hence two gennies, for me anyway.
The real question is how many Amps (or Watts would work too) does the AC draw when running...I used 12, as an estimate. I can see the Dometic Specs for two pages worth of AC units but haven't nailed down exactly which model 13.5k that is in my camper...
https://highskyrvparts.com/downloads...allation_1.pdf
__________________
“Character is doing the right thing when nobody’s looking. There are too many people who think that the only thing that’s right is to get by, and the only thing that’s wrong is to get caught.” - J.C. Watts Jr.
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07-24-2022, 03:37 PM
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#34
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Rivet Master 
2019 25' Flying Cloud
Ocala
, Florida
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 1,257
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich Jenkins
Same here for our single 13.5k btu, but it will be mid-summer before we reach Colorado and camp at altitude. DW plans for us to visit Telluride (9k feet or something?), among other places in CO, apparently.
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Welp we never made it to Telluride, trip was shorter than planned so we are back in Florida.
I did have a couple follow up questions on gennie use, in case anyone knows. I'm an EE (digital, signal processing) but need some input from Electrician types with practical experience.
I was in the storage yard today doing some light duties. The rig is a 2022 GT 23 FBT with the 13,500 BYU A/C. Colonial installed a Micro Air Easy Start ASY-364-X20-IP on pickup in March.
I brought one of my Champion 200961 2,500W portable generator that I hooked up to a 20# propane tank with the Champion regulator. I started the gennie, then plugged in my Progressive SSP-30XL surge protector via a 30A/115VAC adapter into the Champion. I then plugged in the AS 30A cable. I started up the coach and turned on the A/C. It ran normally for 45 minutes or so, on / off / on / off etc. There was nothing else running in the coach.
Couple questions:
The Progressive reported an "open neutral". But power was still supplied to the Airstream. Any issues with doing that? In other words, does it make any difference to the Airstream to run with an open neutral? I'm wondering if I should even bother with the Progressive, since I'm providing my own power, as it were.
Second: I had bought a bonding plug, but didn't plug it into the Champion. If I did, would the error go away on the Progressive? Related to this though, would it matter, really? The bonding plug just ties neutral to ground, right? Since I didn't have a "proper" ground to tie to, what difference would it make?
Lastly, I made up a 25' length of #8 copper wire with a lug on one end and a clamp on the other. I bought a 1' stake with the idea that I could use this, pounded into the ground, as a reference. Now I'm reading online I really need 3 to 4' of stake, copper to boot, to even get close to a decent ground (<100 Ohms, or even less)? I have a feeling this 1' stake is not going to do anything other than look good.
Thoughts?
__________________
“Character is doing the right thing when nobody’s looking. There are too many people who think that the only thing that’s right is to get by, and the only thing that’s wrong is to get caught.” - J.C. Watts Jr.
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07-24-2022, 05:03 PM
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#35
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Rivet Master 
1988 32' Excella
Robbinsville
, New Jersey
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 3,639
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich Jenkins
Welp we never made it to Telluride, trip was shorter than planned so we are back in Florida.
I did have a couple follow up questions on gennie use, in case anyone knows. I'm an EE (digital, signal processing) but need some input from Electrician types with practical experience.
I was in the storage yard today doing some light duties. The rig is a 2022 GT 23 FBT with the 13,500 BYU A/C. Colonial installed a Micro Air Easy Start ASY-364-X20-IP on pickup in March.
I brought one of my Champion 200961 2,500W portable generator that I hooked up to a 20# propane tank with the Champion regulator. I started the gennie, then plugged in my Progressive SSP-30XL surge protector via a 30A/115VAC adapter into the Champion. I then plugged in the AS 30A cable. I started up the coach and turned on the A/C. It ran normally for 45 minutes or so, on / off / on / off etc. There was nothing else running in the coach.
Couple questions:
The Progressive reported an "open neutral". But power was still supplied to the Airstream. Any issues with doing that? In other words, does it make any difference to the Airstream to run with an open neutral? I'm wondering if I should even bother with the Progressive, since I'm providing my own power, as it were.
Second: I had bought a bonding plug, but didn't plug it into the Champion. If I did, would the error go away on the Progressive? Related to this though, would it matter, really? The bonding plug just ties neutral to ground, right? Since I didn't have a "proper" ground to tie to, what difference would it make?
Lastly, I made up a 25' length of #8 copper wire with a lug on one end and a clamp on the other. I bought a 1' stake with the idea that I could use this, pounded into the ground, as a reference. Now I'm reading online I really need 3 to 4' of stake, copper to boot, to even get close to a decent ground (<100 Ohms, or even less)? I have a feeling this 1' stake is not going to do anything other than look good.
Thoughts?
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First, 30A/115VAC adapter is wrong it is a 30A/15A converter. Both sides are the same voltage so no voltage being adapted.
Yes the bonding plug would get rid of the error code.
No it doesn't matter if you are getting power through the Progressive SSP-30XL surge protector.
The "proper ground" you are talking about with a grounding rod wont make a difference since the power is coming from the generator and going back to the generator no other path to complete circuit.
NOTE: Portable generators don't normally have neutral/ground bonding since they could be use to power a house which already has bonding. Trailers are not aloud to have neutral/ground bonding since they are considered to have a sub-panel since they are normally plugged into a place with a main-panel.
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