Generator safety

[tpi]

My apologies for the semi off topic post.

But why doesn't at least on mfg. come out with a 3000ish generator which:

1. Fits below a pickup bed cover.
2. Catalytic converter
3. Fuel injection with altitude compensation.
4. Quiet inverter style.

I would be happy to pay any reasonable price premium.

I've had two scooters now, one a Honda SH150i and a Yamaha Majesty 400. Both have small fuel injected engines, and both produce no exhaust odor at all once warmed up. I'm not equating lack of exhaust odor with safety, but there is some correlation. Am I the only one that generator exhaust smell seems to follow me around like campfire smoke?

[r carl]

Originally Posted by thecatsandi

Gene,
There are two versions of the 3000, one weights 78 lbs, the other, 134 lbs.

I think the 3000 Handi should of been called a 2800 because it puts out less.

[robert@honda]

Originally Posted by tpi

But why doesn't at least on mfg. come out with a 3000ish generator which:
1. Fits below a pickup bed cover.
2. Catalytic converter
3. Fuel injection with altitude compensation.
4. Quiet inverter style.

No internal combustion type electric generator maker will ever promote or intentionally suggest a generator be operated under a cover/truck bed; there are far too many safety/liability concerns, and I doubt there would be a significant market for a unit that could safely be plumbed and vented with total safety 'cause if it did, that's the only place you'd be able to use it, thus greatly restricting the usable market. What is more likely is a generator that is more tolerant of weather (waterproof outlets/connections, intake and exhaust designed for use in all weather, etc.) and could be fixed mounted.

A catalytic converter is already used on some models to help them meet emissions requirements. The rules the EPA and California ARB (Air Resources Board) have in place now and the near future dictate what emissions levels (both exhaust and evaporative) are going to be, and manufacturer's follow suit. It's been shown time and time again, meeting or exceeding emissions levels is all the buying public wants and the government demands.

Fuel injection is drawing a LOT of attention with small gas engine companies. The advent of ethanol and alternate fuels are making it harder and harder to keep customers happy with 110-year old venturi carburetor designs. Honda has a few small scooters with 125cc engines that already have fuel injection; I will speculate it may only be time before a key generator company adopts fuel injection for their products, provided there's plenty of evidence to support sales to make such products profitable. Whoever does it first is in for a wild ride; there are millions of anxious users out there who are tired of clogged carburetors.

[Airslide]

Robert,

Its nice to have you here from a factory level and provide feedback and take some as well. I have two Honda's just recently purchased that im running together when excess load demands for it. So I am a fan at this point but would love to see them go with fuel injection. The simplicity of a carburetor is appealing though I must say. So thanks again for joining and Welcome to the Airforums, we are really happy you're here. Im sure our members appreciate it also.

Thanks Vinnie

[Wazbro]

Robert glad you are here .
I think when he said Fits below a pickup bed cover he meant for storage /transport not running. I think truck beds aren't tall enough for a 22" tall generator (like the Honda EU300IS) to fit under a cover.

[Protagonist]

Originally Posted by Wazbro

Robert glad you are here .
I think when he said Fits below a pickup bed cover he meant for storage /transport not running. I think truck beds aren't tall enough for a 22" tall generator (like the Honda EU300IS) to fit under a cover.

You might be right. However, sure as anything, there would be someone who tries to operate their generator under the pickup bed cover to keep it from getting rained on, so Robert's cautionary response is still well taken.

[ROBERT CROSS]

Rain?

Bob

[tpi]

Originally Posted by robert@honda

No internal combustion type electric generator maker will ever promote or intentionally suggest a generator be operated under a cover/truck bed; there are far too many safety/liability concerns, and I doubt there would be a significant market for a unit that could safely be plumbed and vented with total safety 'cause if it did, that's the only place you'd be able to use it, thus greatly restricting the usable market. What is more likely is a generator that is more tolerant of weather (waterproof outlets/connections, intake and exhaust designed for use in all weather, etc.) and could be fixed mounted.

A catalytic converter is already used on some models to help them meet emissions requirements. The rules the EPA and California ARB (Air Resources Board) have in place now and the near future dictate what emissions levels (both exhaust and evaporative) are going to be, and manufacturer's follow suit. It's been shown time and time again, meeting or exceeding emissions levels is all the buying public wants and the government demands.

Fuel injection is drawing a LOT of attention with small gas engine companies. The advent of ethanol and alternate fuels are making it harder and harder to keep customers happy with 110-year old venturi carburetor designs. Honda has a few small scooters with 125cc engines that already have fuel injection; I will speculate it may only be time before a key generator company adopts fuel injection for their products, provided there's plenty of evidence to support sales to make such products profitable. Whoever does it first is in for a wild ride; there are millions of anxious users out there who are tired of clogged carburetors.

Thanks for your comments, appreciate them. My thought on fitting in the bed of the pickup was for storage/security purpose rather than operating purpose. My current Yamaha 3000 boost towers above the pickup bed. I'd wish these units were sized with pickup bed and cover in mind. Perhaps the Honda units are, but like the wheels of the Yamaha.

Count me in for the first fuel injected/ catalyst generator. This may be needling a bit, but the current units have been out for at least ten years. How about some major updates? Not only tired of the clogged carbs (somewhat preventable with care), but tired of super rich operating conditions at 7-10K ft. elevation. These units are subject to operation at very different elevations, often on same trip. Jetting changes PITA.

Anyway love Honda products in general. For me Honda equals bulletproof.

[ROBERT CROSS]

Switch to LPG...mixture can be adjusted at the low pressure regulator. No funky carb problems, very little exhaust stink, plus you can still run on gas if needed.

Bob

[tkasten]

My Honda 3000 fit under my Truxedo bed cover. I just rolled it back halfway to run the gen. As I posted earlier I now have a topper so I slide the gen. out to the tailgate and rotate.

[Airslide]

Originally Posted by tkasten

My Honda 3000 fit under my Truxedo bed cover. I just rolled it back halfway to run the gen. As I posted earlier I now have a topper so I slide the gen. out to the tailgate and rotate.

Love the Safari.. yours is the year I was born and looking for one kinda.. wife doesnt know

[THEPILL]

Originally Posted by Wazbro

Robert glad you are here .
I think when he said Fits below a pickup bed cover he meant for storage /transport not running. I think truck beds aren't tall enough for a 22" tall generator (like the Honda EU300IS) to fit under a cover.

I have the 3000 also and yes....with my RETRAX slide cover bed cover would be nice if I could secure it. Main reason I don't take it everywhere I go.

A dissapointment..I bought it mainly for the longevity it will run without babying it with fuel.

Honda will come around someday.....
Shane

[tpi]

Originally Posted by ROBERT CROSS

Switch to LPG...mixture can be adjusted at the low pressure regulator. No funky carb problems, very little exhaust stink, plus you can still run on gas if needed.

Bob

Sounds good, what LP conversion do you have?

[ROBERT CROSS]

I have the dual use conversion from US Carburetion.

This will be the 5th Season with it, been a worthwhile up-grade for us.

The install instructions were a little vague at the time, don't know if that's any different now. Some have said the customer service has improved a lot lately, probably best to call if your serious.

Did make some mod's to the low pressure supply lines,(green & yellow), and bought a second front panel from Honda,($12?), so I don't have to have the LP regulator mounted when running on gas. You can see the black mixture screw & lock nut on the LPG manifold.

Bob

[Gene]

We bought a Honda 1000 w. generator about 4 years ago and I think we may have 10 hours on it. We use it for backup when boondocking and solar does not keep up with the batteries—usually in the fall, under trees and such.

It always starts and is low maintenance. So far so good, but…

The 1000 w. generators are disappearing from CW and probably other places. Some only need a small unit (like us), but maybe everyone else needs A/C all the time. Maybe the market is dictating, or larger ones provide more profits for Honda. Making it hard to find the lighter unit (1,000 w.) means fewer sales to people who can't lift or move the larger units, a large part of the target consumer group—RV owners. I don't think Honda has much leverage with retailers (Yamaha and others make good generators too) and is glad to sell the larger units anyway.

When I tried to figure out where the carb is I saw a warning in the manual to take it to a Honda dealer. I'll do everything I can to avoid a Honda dealer and fix it myself. It would be better if the manual described how to adjust it for altitude—a big deal here in Colorado—clean and otherwise maintain it. Altitude adjustments could be made simple, or automatic, and I wish Honda had provided such.

It is a good generator, but managed to disappoint on the altitude adjustment and carb maintenance. It was on sale, so I've only paid about $60/hour for it.

Gene

[robert@honda]

Originally Posted by tpi

...but the current units have been out for at least ten years. How about some major updates? Not only tired of the clogged carbs (somewhat preventable with care), but tired of super rich operating conditions at 7-10K ft. elevation. These units are subject to operation at very different elevations, often on same trip. Jetting changes PITA.

Anyway love Honda products in general. For me Honda equals bulletproof.

First, a well-deserved "thank you" to all Honda generator customers here.

For now, all Honda units will continue to have a carburetor, and rejetting is a fact of life > 5,000 feet. Fuel-injection would solve a LOT of issues. I've heard some talk of Honda distributors in India have already tinkered with this and gotten good results, and have the attention of the EU-series design engineers in Japan.

Development requires a long lead time, plenty of planning, and hundreds of hours of research, as well as "proving" to management how many more Honda can sell if we make this change. But, the system works. I think the majority of people who own a Honda generator would agree, the unit that rolls off the line at the very end is worth the wait.

Hang on!

[Protagonist]

For your consideration…

Are you using ethanol gasoline in your generators? If so, then I have a suggestion, courtesy of my father, who runs a small-engine repair business— lawn mowers, chainsaws, generators.

When you're done with your generator, run it until the tank is empty and it starves itself of fuel, or drain the tank AND the carburator bowl before storing it away.

This one precaution will likely do more to prevent clogged/gummed up carbs than just about anything else you could do. My father says that 80% of his business these days is from people who store their equipment with ethanol still in the tank, and the problems are usually: (1) the ethanol chemically binds with condensation in the tank; (2) the fuel degrades because gasoline no longer has stabilizers added to increase the shelf life, thanks to emissions standards (stabilizers are pollutants when burned); (3) ethanol fuel is mixed with non-ethanol fuel (the additives in non-ethanol fuel combine with ethanol to form a sludge).

[Skater]

As someone who bought a Honda generator a couple months ago, I'm even happier with my choice now that I see a Honda employee here posting. Thanks!

Originally Posted by Protagonist

Are you using ethanol gasoline in your generators? If so, then I have a suggestion, courtesy of my father, who runs a small-engine repair business— lawn mowers, chainsaws, generators.

I think my dad just met your dad. For him it was a pressure washer that's only a few months old, but he was told the exact same thing. The guy said it was a once-a-day thing for them. His other suggestion was to add fuel stabilizers, which I do anyway with my mower and generator's gas cans since I know I'm not going to be using the gas quickly.

My feeling is that any gasoline device these days should be able to handle 10% ethanol. The nearest station that sells non-ethanol gas is 50 miles from me. I'm not driving that far just to get 2 gallons of gas.

[Protagonist]

Originally Posted by Skater

His other suggestion was to add fuel stabilizers, which I do anyway with my mower and generator's gas cans since I know I'm not going to be using the gas quickly.

I agree. Stabilizers are good, if they're compatible with ethanol; check the label before you use! Stabilizers keep the fuel from getting "stale" for long-term storage, but they are not a complete fix for ethanol-related problems, just some of them.

I'd say, drain the generator's gasoline when you're done with it, but add stabilizer to the fuel cans for the next time. Ethanol gasoline should be stored in fuel cans, not in generators.

[robert@honda]

Originally Posted by Protagonist

Ethanol gasoline should be stored in fuel cans, not in generators.

+1,000

I'd love to have this label [attached] on all power equipment products, but it would kill the service business for the industry