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02-18-2014, 08:02 AM
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#1
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3 Rivet Member
Currently Looking...
Austin
, Texas
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 224
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Electrical problem (camping in Mexico)
We have an electrical problem and I know almost nothing about electricity, so here it goes with my description of what's happening.
We're staying at Freedom Shores in Isla Aguada, Mexico. Yesterday, when we arrived, I plugged the RV into shore power (15 amp). Everything in the RV ok: microwave came on, fridge switched to AC, phone started charging.
Ten minutes later, I go inside the RV and notice the microwave being off. The rest (fridge, phone charging) still ok and on electric. Strange.
I find my multimeter and test the 15 amp campground outlet: around 230 V!
I unplugged shore power and found a different campground outlet that shows around 110 V to plug into.
What is the current situation?
- microwave 'dead' (and apparently the microwave fuse is built-in, so I don't know how to check if that's the issue)
- fridge on AC (not on gas, which it's on when we're not plugged in)
- outlets in RV working (to charge phone)
- fan and AC in RV working
- I checked the RV battery with my multimeter and in early afternoon it showed 12.70 V; in late evening 12.69 V
- I reset all the breakers in the RV: nothing changed.
- I also visually checked the RV fuses: nothing looks burned.
Any idea what is wrong? Being in Mexico limits the availability of parts or experienced RV electricians, added up with my limited Spanish knowledge ...
Any help is greatly appreciated!
Thanks,
Jorn
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02-18-2014, 08:07 AM
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#2
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Rivet Master
Airstream Dealer
Corona
, California
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 16,497
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jornvango
We have an electrical problem and I know almost nothing about electricity, so here it goes with my description of what's happening.
We're staying at Freedom Shores in Isla Aguada, Mexico. Yesterday, when we arrived, I plugged the RV into shore power (15 amp). Everything in the RV ok: microwave came on, fridge switched to AC, phone started charging.
Ten minutes later, I go inside the RV and notice the microwave being off. The rest (fridge, phone charging) still ok and on electric. Strange.
I find my multimeter and test the 15 amp campground outlet: around 230 V!
I unplugged shore power and found a different campground outlet that shows around 110 V to plug into.
What is the current situation?
- microwave 'dead' (and apparently the microwave fuse is built-in, so I don't know how to check if that's the issue)
- fridge on AC (not on gas, which it's on when we're not plugged in)
- outlets in RV working (to charge phone)
- fan and AC in RV working
- I checked the RV battery with my multimeter and in early afternoon it showed 12.70 V; in late evening 12.69 V
- I reset all the breakers in the RV: nothing changed.
- I also visually checked the RV fuses: nothing looks burned.
Any idea what is wrong? Being in Mexico limits the availability of parts or experienced RV electricians, added up with my limited Spanish knowledge ...
Any help is greatly appreciated!
Thanks,
Jorn
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Looks can be wrong.
Check the fuses with your multimeter.
Andy
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02-18-2014, 08:11 AM
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#3
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Wise Elder
2010 30' Classic
Vintage Kin Owner
South of the river
, Minnesota
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,169
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jornvango
We're staying at Freedom Shores in Isla Aguada, Mexico. Yesterday, when we arrived, I plugged the RV into shore power (15 amp). Everything in the RV ok: microwave came on, fridge switched to AC, phone started charging.
Ten minutes later, I go inside the RV and notice the microwave being off. The rest (fridge, phone charging) still ok and on electric. Strange.
I find my multimeter and test the 15 amp campground outlet: around 230 V!
I unplugged shore power and found a different campground outlet that shows around 110 V to plug into.
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This usually occurs because of an open neutral in the campground wiring, which can occur as a result of poor wiring practices.
Quote:
What is the current situation?
- microwave 'dead' (and apparently the microwave fuse is built-in, so I don't know how to check if that's the issue)
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Not much you can do there except have a technician repair the microwave or do it yourself. There's a good chance it's just a fuse.
Quote:
- fridge on AC (not on gas, which it's on when we're not plugged in)
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If it is still working it probably isn't damaged. Operation on 230v usually causes the heating element to overheat and fail.
Quote:
- outlets in RV working (to charge phone)
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The outlets, breakers, and wiring will typically not be damaged by 230v. Cell phone and computer chargers vary, with some of them designed to accept a wide range of input voltages to facilitate travel and sale in multiple countries -- those that are will typically run fine on 90-250v.
Quote:
- fan and AC in RV working
- I checked the RV battery with my multimeter and in early afternoon it showed 12.70 V; in late evening 12.69 V
- I reset all the breakers in the RV: nothing changed.
- I also visually checked the RV fuses: nothing looks burned.
Any idea what is wrong? Being in Mexico limits the availability of parts or experienced RV electricians, added up with my limited Spanish knowledge
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Sounds like everything else is fine. I wouldn't worry.
__________________
To learn to see below the surface, you must adjust your altitude
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02-18-2014, 08:16 AM
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#4
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Figment of My Imagination
2012 Interstate Coach
From All Over
, More Than Anywhere Else
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 10,868
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jornvango
Any idea what is wrong? Being in Mexico limits the availability of parts or experienced RV electricians, added up with my limited Spanish knowledge ...
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The sum total of my Spanish is, "¿Dondé esta la cervezas fria?" i.e. "Where is the cold beer?" In a horrendous norteamericano accent.
But some things that could be wrong:
1 - Does Mexico use 60Hz or do they use 50Hz for their frequency? I ask because I really can't recall. If 50Hz, anything with a computer chip in it will be a bit wonky, including your microwave.
2 - On edit— Jammer seems to have addressed everything else.
__________________
I thought getting old would take longer!
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02-18-2014, 08:17 AM
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#5
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3 Rivet Member
Currently Looking...
Austin
, Texas
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 224
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Thanks.
The campground owner speaks english and has contacted a local electrician to look at the microwave. Hopefully an update later.
I'm worried that the converter is damaged but it sounds like it's ok?
As a side question: do RV converters have any built-in protection against high currence?
Thank you,
Jorn
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02-18-2014, 08:27 AM
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#6
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Rivet Master
1966 24' Tradewind
1995 34' Excella
Lynchburg
, Virginia
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 4,225
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Wow Jammer! A very detailed response to an electrical problem in 9 minutes. Isn't this forum the greatest. Thanks Jammer.
Dan
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02-18-2014, 08:46 AM
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#7
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Wise Elder
2010 30' Classic
Vintage Kin Owner
South of the river
, Minnesota
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,169
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Protagonist
1 - Does Mexico use 60Hz or do they use 50Hz for their frequency? I ask because I really can't recall. If 50Hz, anything with a computer chip in it will be a bit wonky, including your microwave.
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Mexico is 60 Hz. Aside from some island nations, 120v 60hz is the standard everywhere north of the Bridge of the Americas.
"Wall Plug and Voltage Standards Worldwide, plug styles, voltages, frequency Hz"
Quote:
Originally Posted by jornvango
I'm worried that the converter is damaged but it sounds like it's ok?
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The stock converters are extremely tough. If the voltage drops below 12.5 then it has probably failed, though. It's troubling that it's only 12.7.
Quote:
As a side question: do RV converters have any built-in protection against high currence?
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It varies. The Xantex Truecharge converters are auto-ranging and will run on 90-250v 49-61Hz. I'm getting one of those when I have the cash.
I would guess that some others are autoranging also even if the label doesn't say so (to ease regulatory approval by UL and others). Switching power supplies have an inherent lack of sensitivity to input voltage, and good designs take advantage of this.
Older linear power supplies will typically blow a fuse.
__________________
To learn to see below the surface, you must adjust your altitude
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02-18-2014, 10:08 AM
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#8
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4 Rivet Member
2006 30' Classic
Milton
, Florida
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 256
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Electrical Protection
There are several brands of devices that will protect one's TT from dangers such as the one you encountered. One such device is Progressive Industries 30 Amp Portable Electrical Management System - EMS-PT30C .
These devices are expensive to purchase. However, the savings that result from using this form of protection can more than offset the initial purchase price.
We have avoided problems of this sort in about a half a dozen cases while camping in the US.
Perform a Google search on RV Surge Protectors. You will find several devices. Also search this forum for others experiences with these devices.
__________________
F. A. Meloy
2006 30' Classic
Dexter hydraulic disc brake system
Centramatics wheel balancing & Dill TPMS
Hensley hitch & Maxim skylights
Voyager Camera System WVOS713
2010 FORD F-250, ITBC, 6.8 liter V-10 gas, with VIAIR on-board air system
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02-18-2014, 10:19 AM
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#9
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Moderator
2017 26' Flying Cloud
Alamo Heights
, Texas
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 8,500
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jornvango
Thanks.
The campground owner speaks english and has contacted a local electrician to look at the microwave. Hopefully an update later.
I'm worried that the converter is damaged but it sounds like it's ok?
As a side question: do RV converters have any built-in protection against high currence?
Thank you,
Jorn
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If your converter was working, your 12v side would probably be registering 13.2v or higher when plugged int, not 12.7 and dwindling slowly.
I don't know if any converters are protected on the 120v side... I'm pretty sure my Powermax converters aren't, the fuses are on the 12v side to protect from reversing the battery wires.
A temporary measure if you can't get a 12v converter in a timely fashion is just to use a battery charger.
__________________
— David
Zero Gravitas — 2017 Flying Cloud 26U | WBCCI# 15566
He has all of the virtues I dislike and none of the vices I admire. — Sir Winston Churchill
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02-18-2014, 10:27 AM
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#10
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Rivet Master
2012 28' International
Olympia
, Washington
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 773
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nickmeloy
There are several brands of devices that will protect one's TT from dangers such as the one you encountered. One such device is Progressive Industries 30 Amp Portable Electrical Management System - EMS-PT30C .
These devices are expensive to purchase. However, the savings that result from using this form of protection can more than offset the initial purchase price.
We have avoided problems of this sort in about a half a dozen cases while camping in the US.
Perform a Google search on RV Surge Protectors. You will find several devices. Also search this forum for others experiences with these devices.
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+1 on the EMS. I have one and it has saved me a couple of times.
__________________
Dave
2014 Ram 2500 CTD
Pro Pride
Centramatics
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02-22-2014, 02:30 PM
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#11
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3 Rivet Member
Currently Looking...
Austin
, Texas
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 224
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Seems like the converter and microwave are fried. These will have to be looked at when we get back to the US: not many RV parts or mexhanics here in Mexico.
In the meantime, on the rest of our trip, the battery will get charged when we drive every few days. I also bought a battery charger (75/20). If I don't have an electrical hookup to plug it into, I will use the RV portable generator (Yamaha 2000) to plug the battery charger into.
Since I cannot find an outdoor protector here and a 30 amp one is overkill down here (only regular household outlets as hook up here), I bought an indoor surge protector (suitable for microwave, TV, ...). In the future we will hook up the 15 amp campground outlet to the protector (placed at the floor in the back of the car) and the RV is plugged into the protector. I think this gives us a protected 15 amp (or is it 20.. not sure) hook up, which allows us to run the AC in the RV.
Good plan?
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02-22-2014, 07:52 PM
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#12
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Wise Elder
2010 30' Classic
Vintage Kin Owner
South of the river
, Minnesota
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,169
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Most surge protectors won't protect against an open neutral.
Me, I just plug in and figure that any serious problems are likely to be rare enough that they aren't worth the weight, hassle, and expense of one of the autotransformer-type devices that actually provide protection against them.
Traveling someplace where the power might be dodgy the easiest thing to do is bring along an incandescent light bulb -- any wattage 40-300w, doesn't matter -- and a way to plug it in. Use that before you plug in the trailer. If it lights up and doesn't burn out in 10 seconds, the power is good.
The light bulb will actually tell you more than a voltmeter because it applies a load. Light bulbs are some of the most voltage-sensitive loads and will burn out quickly if the voltage is excessive.
__________________
To learn to see below the surface, you must adjust your altitude
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02-22-2014, 09:30 PM
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#13
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Rivet Master
1988 32' Excella
Robbinsville
, New Jersey
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 3,134
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Did you check your GFCI?
The outlets for the microwave and converter might be controlled by a GFCI outlet or breaker.
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02-23-2014, 06:40 AM
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#14
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Overland Adventurer
1991 34' Excella
2009 34' Panamerica
Telluride
, Colorado
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 2,476
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I'd be very çutious of an open neutral in the pedistal or even closer to a transformer.
If this is the case all your 110 volt devices are toast.
Also I believe Mexico voltage frequency is 50 Hertz not 60 like the American standard!
FWIW a surge protector of any make or design will not protect you from this fault here or elsewhere.
Don't let anyone fool you into thinking so. Everyone needs to learn what an open neutral is.
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02-23-2014, 10:11 PM
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#15
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Rivet Master
1966 24' Tradewind
1995 34' Excella
Lynchburg
, Virginia
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 4,225
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jornvango
In the meantime, on the rest of our trip, the battery will get charged when we drive every few days. I also bought a battery charger (75/20). If I don't have an electrical hookup to plug it into, I will use the RV portable generator (Yamaha 2000) to plug the battery charger into.
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I have a Honda 1000 watt genny. It has a 12v battery charger built into it. Does the Yamaha 2000 not have this feature?
Dan
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02-24-2014, 09:21 AM
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#16
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4 Rivet Member
2006 30' Classic
Milton
, Florida
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 256
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Open Neutral
Quote:
Originally Posted by AtomicNo13
...FWIW a surge protector of any make or design will not protect you from this fault here or elsewhere.
Don't let anyone fool you into thinking so. Everyone needs to learn what an open neutral is.
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Can you be more specific about this comment? Please see the link in post 8 above. My unit detected an open neutral in a KOA park in the US.
__________________
F. A. Meloy
2006 30' Classic
Dexter hydraulic disc brake system
Centramatics wheel balancing & Dill TPMS
Hensley hitch & Maxim skylights
Voyager Camera System WVOS713
2010 FORD F-250, ITBC, 6.8 liter V-10 gas, with VIAIR on-board air system
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02-24-2014, 02:44 PM
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#17
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Overland Adventurer
1991 34' Excella
2009 34' Panamerica
Telluride
, Colorado
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 2,476
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Open neutral 30 amp is a whole different animal than open neutral RV service 50 amp. Nonetheless a warning is something other than a service disconnect.
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03-03-2014, 08:48 PM
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#18
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Rivet Master
1978 25' Tradewind
Metro Phoenix
, Arizona
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 1,524
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Would one of these outlet testers be a good idea for testing before you plug in?
Supplementary instructions: If it explodes into a ball of fire when you plug it in, do not plug in your trailer.
__________________
"Between what matters and what seems to matter, how should the world we know judge wisely?" - E.C. Bentley, Trent's Last Case
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03-03-2014, 09:01 PM
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#19
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Rivet Master
1966 24' Tradewind
1995 34' Excella
Lynchburg
, Virginia
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 4,225
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drboyd
Would one of these outlet testers be a good idea for testing before you plug in?
Supplementary instructions: If it explodes into a ball of fire when you plug it in, do not plug in your trailer.
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I'll defer to an electrical guru when they check in; this will give you some info when you plug it into a receptacle, but I don't believe it will tell you that you have an open neutral that will result in the voltage to the trailer being 240 volts instead of the 120 volts that you want. Ie. the tester does not measure the line voltage. So the answer to your question is yes, it is a good idea to test, but this tester does not measure the line voltage. For this you need a voltmeter or a test light bulb, per Jammer.
Dan
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03-04-2014, 09:36 AM
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#20
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4 Rivet Member
2006 30' Classic
Milton
, Florida
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 256
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An Alternative with Real Time Protection
Quote:
Originally Posted by TouringDan
I'll defer to an electrical guru when they check in; this will give you some info when you plug it into a receptacle, but I don't believe it will tell you that you have an open neutral that will result in the voltage to the trailer being 240 volts instead of the 120 volts that you want. Ie. the tester does not measure the line voltage. So the answer to your question is yes, it is a good idea to test, but this tester does not measure the line voltage. For this you need a voltmeter or a test light bulb, per Jammer.
Dan
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The attachment is one alternative to a test light for those unskilled in the use of such devices. There are other brands available, and similar devices are available for 50 amp, 240 Volt RV applications. I have no financial interest in any of these companies.
__________________
F. A. Meloy
2006 30' Classic
Dexter hydraulic disc brake system
Centramatics wheel balancing & Dill TPMS
Hensley hitch & Maxim skylights
Voyager Camera System WVOS713
2010 FORD F-250, ITBC, 6.8 liter V-10 gas, with VIAIR on-board air system
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