Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 06-03-2019, 07:44 AM   #1
Rivet Master
 
Mollysdad's Avatar
 
2017 26' Flying Cloud
Tampa , Florida
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 4,464
Blog Entries: 1
Do you carry this Y-cord?

I just returned from a trip where I stayed at two campgrounds. One, commercial, advertised "50 amp power"; the other a state park where they advertised "30 amp power". Both had the same pedestals. Old style, short 24" above ground? and two 30 amp outlets. (plus a 15)
The commercial park said, "It's 50 amp if you have the Y-cord". (It's not, but let's save that discussion. Obviously, two 30's are better than one 30.).
In both cases I used my 30 amp cable and I was fine with one A/C and careful rationing of power.
Before leaving on this trip I contemplated buying a 30 amp surge protector, but waited.

I found this Y-cord on Amazon:

Anyone carry one?

Here's my dilemma, using this cord plus a 50 amp surge protector from a short pedestal puts the surge protector flat on the ground, not ideal if it rains.

Opine? Usually, when I don't see a clear need, I do nothing.
__________________

Mollysdad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2019, 09:20 AM   #2
Rivet Master

 
2015 27' Flying Cloud
Portland , Oregon
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 564
Send a message via AIM to hhendrix Send a message via Yahoo to hhendrix
I have one and Iíll be happy to sell it to you. Think of this way. 50 amp service has two hot legs, one neutral, and one ground. Using this Y cord gives you the same, but still only 30 amp service. However a lot depends on how the posts are wired. Another way to analyze is to understand the wire size to the post is larger for 50 amp than 30amp. So what you get is two 30 amp services, not a true 50 amp service. Will it work? Probably since dual A/C Airstreams have each A/C unit connected separately on one of the two hot legs and 30 amp is more than enough to power them.
We travel quite a bit with our Airstream and I rarely found post with two 30 amp connections. I have also tried using the 20 amp adapter to 30 amp plug in addition to the 30 amp connector, but if the 20 or 15 amp outlet is a GFI, it trips every time.
__________________

__________________
The ability to follow instructions is highly underrated.
Always be wary of stupid people in large numbers.
hhendrix is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2019, 06:49 PM   #3
Rivet Master
 
Mollysdad's Avatar
 
2017 26' Flying Cloud
Tampa , Florida
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 4,464
Blog Entries: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by hhendrix View Post
We travel quite a bit with our Airstream and I rarely found post with two 30 amp connections.
That's the information I'm looking for. I was surprised I ran into two campgrounds on the same trip, back to back. Since I plan to do more state parks I wondered if it was more common there.
Now the Y-cord isn't stupid expensive ($40) but you don't get 50 amps, and it's another connector in the chain.
Mollysdad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2019, 07:01 PM   #4
Rivet Master
 
Al and Missy's Avatar

 
2002 30' Classic S/O
Melbourne Beach , Florida
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 3,926
Quote:
Originally Posted by hhendrix View Post
I have one and I’ll be happy to sell it to you. Think of this way. 50 amp service has two hot legs, one neutral, and one ground. Using this Y cord gives you the same, but still only 30 amp service. However a lot depends on how the posts are wired. Another way to analyze is to understand the wire size to the post is larger for 50 amp than 30amp. So what you get is two 30 amp services, not a true 50 amp service. Will it work? Probably since dual A/C Airstreams have each A/C unit connected separately on one of the two hot legs and 30 amp is more than enough to power them.
We travel quite a bit with our Airstream and I rarely found post with two 30 amp connections. I have also tried using the 20 amp adapter to 30 amp plug in addition to the 30 amp connector, but if the 20 or 15 amp outlet is a GFI, it trips every time.
Actually "50 Amp" service is really 240 volt line to line/50 amp with a neutral aka 120 volt line to neutral service with two 50 amp legs on different phases. With the Y cord you get two 120 volt 30A services for 60 amps total, but only if the pedestal is wired to code. Each 30 amp receptacle is "supposed" to be fed with its own 30 amp breaker. That should run most, if not all, of the stuff in a trailer with 50 amp service.

The only thing that might not be equivalent is the two 30A legs could be wired to the same phase, thus line to line would be 0 volts, not 240, but I'm not aware that anything in a stock Airstream uses 240 volts. Other trailers with electric stoves, dryers, etc. may need 240V.

Al
__________________
"You cannot reason someone out of a position they have not been reasoned into"
Al, K5TAN and Missy, N4RGO
WBCCI 1322
2002 Classic 30 Slideout -S/OS #004
2013 Dodge 2500 Laramie 4x4 Megacab Cummins



Al and Missy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2019, 10:44 AM   #5
3 Rivet Member
 
2019 27' Globetrotter
Denver , North Carolina
Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 144
Images: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by Al and Missy View Post
Actually "50 Amp" service is really 240 volt line to line/50 amp with a neutral aka 120 volt line to neutral service with two 50 amp legs on different phases. With the Y cord you get two 120 volt 30A services for 60 amps total, but only if the pedestal is wired to code. Each 30 amp receptacle is "supposed" to be fed with its own 30 amp breaker. That should run most, if not all, of the stuff in a trailer with 50 amp service.

The only thing that might not be equivalent is the two 30A legs could be wired to the same phase, thus line to line would be 0 volts, not 240, but I'm not aware that anything in a stock Airstream uses 240 volts. Other trailers with electric stoves, dryers, etc. may need 240V.

Al

I recently ran into the two 30amp outlets on a post in Cloudland Canyon SP in north Georgia. I don't recall if they were on separate breakers. On returning home I purchased the Y adapter pictured in Moleysdad's post.

I have a 50 amp Globetrotter and use Progressives's EMS-PT50X. If each 30amp outlet has its own circuit breaker am I safe in assuming (I know, never ASSume) that I'm getting two 30amp feeds into my trailer?

If not when is this adapter safe to use if ever?

Thanks
Dave S
link2dks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2019, 11:26 AM   #6
Rivet Master
 
Mollysdad's Avatar
 
2017 26' Flying Cloud
Tampa , Florida
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 4,464
Blog Entries: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by link2dks View Post
If not when is this adapter safe to use if ever?
In a real 240v. application, the two hot leads are 180 degrees out of phase.
However, in an RV like an Airstream, the two hots are never used as 240v. Rather they are two totally separate 125v sources.
Therefore, each leg just powers different equipment and so the phase is irrelevant.
The power post I had did have a breaker for each leg.
I didn't like the idea of using the y-cord, then my surge protector would have been flat on the ground.

The vast majority of Airstreams are 30 amp total, and they do okay most of the time with careful power management.
We 50 amp users are spoiled by not needing to think about what we're running concurrently.

WARNING: math ahead.
At first, one might think, "Two 30 amps gives you 60 amps, so it's superior to only 50 amp service"?
Not so fast. 50 amp power is TWO legs each of 50 amps, so obviously, two 50 amp legs is superior to two 30 amp legs.
But as I originally stated the obvious, "Two 30 amp legs is better than one 30 amp leg."
Mollysdad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2019, 11:31 AM   #7
Rivet Master
 
Al and Missy's Avatar

 
2002 30' Classic S/O
Melbourne Beach , Florida
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 3,926
@link2dks: You should be fine.

My opinion is based on the following:
1. Your trailer is wired for 50A service. Feeding a 50A capable line from a 30A breaker would not be a problem other than you might have to manage loads that you wouldn't normally do.
2. Even if they were not fed from separate breakers, the worst case is you would only get 30A service instead of 60.

If both outlets are fed from the same phase and you have 220 volt equipment in your trailer (you probably don't) it will not work properly, but it probably won't hurt anything. As an example, my home wall oven has 120/240 service, i.e. two hot legs, a neutral, and ground. The heating elements are wired line to line. There would be 0 volts there since the two legs are to the same phase, but the clock is connected line to neutral so it would see 120 volts and would work. The best thing to do is to open any breakers that feed 220V appliances.

Al
__________________
"You cannot reason someone out of a position they have not been reasoned into"
Al, K5TAN and Missy, N4RGO
WBCCI 1322
2002 Classic 30 Slideout -S/OS #004
2013 Dodge 2500 Laramie 4x4 Megacab Cummins



Al and Missy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2019, 01:07 PM   #8
Rivet Master
 
2017 30' Classic
Anna Maria , Florida
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,435
Quote:
Originally Posted by hhendrix View Post
I have one and I’ll be happy to sell it to you. Think of this way. 50 amp service has two hot legs, one neutral, and one ground. Using this Y cord gives you the same, but still only 30 amp service. However a lot depends on how the posts are wired. Another way to analyze is to understand the wire size to the post is larger for 50 amp than 30amp. So what you get is two 30 amp services, not a true 50 amp service. Will it work? Probably since dual A/C Airstreams have each A/C unit connected separately on one of the two hot legs and 30 amp is more than enough to power them.
We travel quite a bit with our Airstream and I rarely found post with two 30 amp connections. I have also tried using the 20 amp adapter to 30 amp plug in addition to the 30 amp connector, but if the 20 or 15 amp outlet is a GFI, it trips every time.
Not to be argumentative but I highly doubt that the 50 AMP service has two separate 50 AMP feeds . I wired my RV outlet myself at the house and I used two independent 30 AMP supply line with their own braker of course and run both AC Units just fine.
That clever Y would come in handy when you are in Arizona in August needing both AC units and all you have at the pedestal is two 30 AMP plugs
franklyfrank is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2019, 01:08 PM   #9
3 Rivet Member
 
2019 27' Globetrotter
Denver , North Carolina
Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 144
Images: 1
Mollysdad and Al thanks for the clairification.

As to your original question Molleysdad, I'm hoping to be able to keep the PT50X upright and off the ground with the aid of bungees. I'll have to see how that goes the next time I run across two 30's on a pedestal.

Dave S
link2dks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2019, 01:15 PM   #10
3 Rivet Member
 
2019 27' Globetrotter
Denver , North Carolina
Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 144
Images: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by franklyfrank View Post
Not to be argumentative but I highly doubt that the 50 AMP service has two separate 50 AMP feeds . I wired my RV outlet myself at the house and I used two independent 30 AMP supply line with their own braker of course.
The 50 AMP RV connection assumes a dual 25 AMP feeds.
There isn't anything on an Airstream needing 50 AMP.
That clever Y would come in handy when you are in Arizona in August needing both AC units and all you have at the pedestal is two 30 AMP plugs
Frank check out this link:

https://manuals.heartlandowners.org/...r%20System.pdf

Good explanation of the 50amp shore power circuit, even I was able to understand it not being electrically inclined.

Dave S
link2dks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2019, 01:47 PM   #11
Half a Rivet Short
 
2017 30' Classic
Carlisle , Pennsylvania
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 8,694
Hi

Ok, first off the 50A plug *is* indeed a 240V setup. The 30A plug is a 120V setup. Looked at "same/same" the 50A plug is giving you 100A of current at the same voltage as the 30A plug.

The outlet for the 50A to plug into *does* indeed have two 50A wires to it. You might not use all 100A in your Airstream. The next guy who pulls in with that 48' long 5th wheel may well use darn near all of it. If it's not wired for the full 100A he'll either fry something or start popping upstream breakers. The breaker on the post is always 2X50A so the problem would have to be upstream.

Your 50A cord has four wires inside it. You can cut it in half if you really want to verify this. Reading the really small print on the outside of the cable is another way. You have two wires that are hot and have 240V between them. Each is rated for 50A. You have one wire at "zero" (the neutral) and it is also rated for 50A (not 100A). The same issue applies to the plugs and sockets.

The 50A neutral is fine since the max current you can ever put down that wire (with 240V feed) is 50A. That happens when you have a full load on one hot and zero on the other one. If you have full load on both sides, the currents are 180 degrees out of phase and they add to zero. That's one of the reasons you do it this way. You loose less power done like this (no drop in the neutral leg).

So what happens if you set it up as two 50A 120V circuits? You get 100A down the neutral and fry the cable and fry the connectors. They very much do *not* like over current. When you double the current, the heat rise goes up by a factor of four. That's not good.

So what's the risk of me getting out of the trailer and plugging that Y adapter into the post at the back of the trailer? Well, you likely get 60A on the neutral. The connectors get about half again hotter than they should. That *assumes* you can pull the full 60A. As noted above, doing that with a typical AS will be an unusual occurrence. I could do it with my 30' Classic without getting too crazy.

So- bottom line, fine way to run two air conditioners in the hot Georgia sun. Still not a perfect answer to running absolutely everything all at the same time.

Bob
uncle_bob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2019, 04:09 PM   #12
Wise Elder
 
Jammer's Avatar
 
2010 30' Classic
Vintage Kin Owner
South of the river , Minnesota
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,166
Quote:
Originally Posted by franklyfrank View Post
Not to be argumentative but I highly doubt that the 50 AMP service has two separate 50 AMP feeds . I wired my RV outlet myself at the house and I used two independent 30 AMP supply line with their own braker of course and run both AC Units just fine

A properly wired 50 amp outlet does, in fact, have two separate 50 amp feeds, plus a neutral common to them, and a ground.


While what you did may work for your purposes, it would not pass an electrical inspection, because the electrical code in all 50 states requires two 50 amp circuits.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mollysdad View Post
Anyone carry one [y cord]?

No. I've never run into a campground where one would be useful, and I don't believe they're safe for reasons that are technical and difficult to explain to people without an extensive background in electrical matters.


An alternative to consider is have a bypass plug for the rear air conditioner, so that you can unplug it from your main breaker panel, and plug it into a heavy extension cord which you run separately to the pedestal. This is safer, and allows you to use a 20 amp circuit with a GFCI, which will trip if you use the Y-cord with it.


Quote:
Here's my dilemma, using this cord plus a 50 amp surge protector from a short pedestal puts the surge protector flat on the ground, not ideal if it rains.

Opine? Usually, when I don't see a clear need, I do nothing.

My answer would be to get rid of the surge protector, because it isn't doing you much good, for reasons I have written about at length in the past. Otherwise, put it on some of those leveling blocks to prop it up off the ground, and put the connection inside a bread bag or garbage bag or something to keep the rain off.
__________________
To learn to see below the surface, you must adjust your altitude
Jammer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2019, 08:42 PM   #13
Rivet Master
 
greghoro's Avatar
 
2013 25' Flying Cloud
Wheaton , Illinois
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 502
As an FYI. Progressive Industries made something similar called a Cheater Box, model ADPT230.

It came supplied with a plug adapter so that one of the 30A plugs could plug into a 15/20A circuit.

They discontinued this product.


Greg
greghoro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2019, 09:14 PM   #14
Rivet Master
 
Mollysdad's Avatar
 
2017 26' Flying Cloud
Tampa , Florida
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 4,464
Blog Entries: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by greghoro View Post
As an FYI. Progressive Industries made something similar called a Cheater Box, model ADPT230.
It came supplied with a plug adapter so that one of the 30A plugs could plug into a 15/20A circuit.
They discontinued this product.
Greg
There is another y-cord that has a 30 amp plug on one side and a 15 amp Edison plug on the other.
I don't see any use for that. The 15 amp leg might help but it could also easily be overloaded.
Mollysdad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2019, 09:48 PM   #15
4 Rivet Member
 
Baby Zeppelin's Avatar
 
2018 28' Flying Cloud
Suwanee , Georgia
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 310
The two 30a outlets are quite common at Georgia State Parks, and at the Top of Georgia Airstream park. The Y-splitter is very handy to have in my home state.
__________________
Erik & Carol
Suwanee, Georgia
AS: 2018 Flying Cloud 28 "Baby Zeppelin"
TV: 2017 Ford F250 Lariat w/ Blue Ox Sway Pro
AIRForums #126944 WBCCI #1297
Baby Zeppelin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2019, 05:54 AM   #16
Half a Rivet Short
 
2017 30' Classic
Carlisle , Pennsylvania
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 8,694
Quote:
Originally Posted by Baby Zeppelin View Post
The two 30a outlets are quite common at Georgia State Parks, and at the Top of Georgia Airstream park. The Y-splitter is very handy to have in my home state.
Hi

Dual 30's at Top of Georgia ..... who knew ....

Now, if I wasn't so lazy, I could walk the 12 feet over to the master distribution panel and see if it pops open. That would answer a lot of questions about how the pedestals are actually fed. .... hmmm.... wonder if there's a lock on it ... hmmm.....

I *suppose* a multimeter poking at the post also would answer the same question. It wouldn't be as much fun. Of course it would be less likely to get me in trouble.....

*IF* they wire these pedestals as a 240V feed, then the two 30A plug thing could give you a proper 240V into the 50A system. In that case, there is no reason to avoid doing this. It would make sense to feed them with a 240V line, simply to save wire cost. You would not get the full 50A you might like to have, but you would not be doing any harm.

One other Georgia note: They are upgrading some of the parks. At one of the ones we were at a few weeks back they had put in ( wait for it ..) 50A sockets !!!!. No idea if they actually work or not, that part of the park was not yet open. Some people look at the trees when they go for a walk .... other people look in electrical boxes

Bob
__________________

uncle_bob is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
What do you carry in your truck and how do you organize them? Airperson Boondocking 45 11-07-2011 11:42 PM
What do you carry for travel dishes? BIGED52 Stella's Kitchen 72 03-18-2008 10:53 PM
How do you carry bicycles? JeffandSuzanne On The Road... 42 03-11-2007 04:07 PM


Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by the Airstream, Inc. or any of its affiliates. Airstream is a registered trademark of Airstream Inc. All rights reserved. Airstream trademark used under license to Social Knowledge LLC.



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:33 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.