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Old 09-12-2019, 09:45 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by waninae39 View Post
we use the victron 3k converter inverter
we also use some of their other products.

they all talk together and can to inet accessible and from Bluetooth on the phone
Oh wow.... that's cool.
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Old 09-13-2019, 12:56 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by Al and Missy View Post
The use/store switch red light is always on with shore power applied. Plus, I think it has already been changed. I thought there was 12V on the red wire with shore power off. That pretty much confirms the problem is on the circuit board to me.

Al
Pamu says the red light is always on, regardless of the Use/Store position, if the batteries are connected but shore power isn't. That's what I find confusing. Hoping she's right that the new converter will fix the problem.

If the converter provides power to the batteries to charge them, but when the converter is off (no shore power) wouldn't there still be the nominal battery charge on that red wire??? Maybe only if Use/Store is in Use???
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Old 09-14-2019, 08:24 PM   #23
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A similar question, but with a different twist. Just came back from a weekend (last weekend) of camping, all was fine and had a great time. Parked the trailer in the drive last Sunday and plugged it in to a 120v outlet in my garage as always. Went out to the trailer an hour ago to get something and the lights are way low, ie running off an almost drained battery. Thinking the plug may have come out or the outlet had issues, but checked and all that is fine. Checked the connection to the AS and re-connected the plug, but nothing.


I installed the PD4655 a year or so ago, (bought it from Randy at Best) but can only guess that is the issue ? There is a small green light on, but will need to do some research to see what that means.


Any thoughts as to why I dont have shore power ?
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Old 09-14-2019, 08:55 PM   #24
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Hi

Indeed there is no such thing as a "good 5 cent cigar". There also is no such thing as a converter that never breaks. The stock units die. The replacement units also die. Some converters only last a couple weeks .....

=====

I completely agree that somewhere in the OP's trailer there is an issue and it's not the converter. Replacing the stock unit may give you a warm feeling. The only way to actually fix the problem is to dig in and troubleshoot the issue. If that's not something you want to do yourself, it's a pretty standard RV electrical sort of thing. There are a lot of dealer shops that can work it out.

======

To Fred with no power at home: If your converter is running and everything is dying, check the position of the use/store switch first (cycle it ....). Past that start tracing out the wiring with your DVM. First step is to see if the converter output is the same as the battery voltage. Based on that the process branches out .....

Bob
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Old 09-15-2019, 09:40 AM   #25
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Bob,

Tried the use/store switch and nothing, no clicks and the red light stays on ?

Does the solid small green light on the PD4655 indicate it is working ?
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Old 09-15-2019, 12:19 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred L View Post
Bob,

Tried the use/store switch and nothing, no clicks and the red light stays on ?

Does the solid small green light on the PD4655 indicate it is working ?
From the owners manual:
The Charge Wizard Operation:
While the built-in Charge Wizard automatically determines which operating mode is best suited to recharge or maintain opti-mum battery condition, the Wizard Mode Button allows for manual override and has an indicator light to indicate the mode of operation. (Located on DC board, included)
BOOST MODE Indicated by green LED remaining on. The output voltage is 14.4VDC to rapidly recharge the battery up to 90% of full charge.
NORMAL MODE When the battery is between 50% and 90% charged, the green LED will flash once per second. When the battery has reached 90% of full charge, the green LED will flash 2 - 3 times per second. In this mode the output voltage is 13.6VDC and the converter is safely completing the charge of the battery.
STORAGE MODE Indicated by green LED flashing every 6 - 8 seconds. In this mode the output voltage has been lowered to 13.2VDC, the RV battery is fully charged and the converter is maintaining the charge.


The Use/Store red light should be on when you are on shore power or (if not) when the switch is in Use position. If your red light stays on when you are not on shore power and the switch is in Store position, then you have the same issue as Pamu. If you switch between Use and Store and you do not hear the solenoid at the front clicking, then you probably have a bad solenoid (Pamu did). Your batteries may be totally down, did you take a voltage reading? Can you put a portable charger on your batteries? The difference between your situation and Pamu's is, she has no lights or other 12v device working when she is not on shore power; you do.

Pamu has replaced the solenoid and now can hear it clicking when using the Use / Store switch. She has bought a new converter (same as you, a PD4655).
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Old 09-15-2019, 06:47 PM   #27
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Appreciated Rich. As noted, no clicking when I change from use to store.
Based on what I have read below, will try replacing the solenoid.... now to locate it.

Havent checked my owners manual for a diagram, but will in the morning. My 23 is 2007, so guessing I will not find a diagram in there.


Rich, will try to get an external charge on the batteries tomorrow. I know they are on their last legs and was just hoping to get through the year.
BTW, with an external charge, does one need to do each battery separately, or can both be done at one time?

Luckily no more trips planned this year, other than the one to inside winter storage about 2 hours away.
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Old 09-15-2019, 09:57 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred L View Post
Appreciated Rich. As noted, no clicking when I change from use to store.
Based on what I have read below, will try replacing the solenoid.... now to locate it.

Haven't checked my owners manual for a diagram, but will in the morning. My 23 is 2007, so guessing I will not find a diagram in there.

Rich, will try to get an external charge on the batteries tomorrow. I know they are on their last legs and was just hoping to get through the year.
BTW, with an external charge, does one need to do each battery separately, or can both be done at one time?

Luckily no more trips planned this year, other than the one to inside winter storage about 2 hours away.
I have a 2006 23' Safari SE. The solenoid is close to the front wall, directly in front of the join between the 2 sections of L-couch, if you have one of those. Whatever you have in the front, you will probably have to take it out of the AS to get to the solenoid. Be sure to disconnect the batteries anytime you're working in that area. You could short a very expensive fuse in that area. Ask me how I know. (My first week of ownership)

You can charge up the batteries in parallel. Be sure to put the red connector on the positive of one battery and the black on the negative of the other battery so the charge goes completely through both batteries. (Of course you will have the short jumpers running + to + and - to - )

I would charge the batteries first and then test the solenoid again. Low batteries might make a difference if they are really down. Also, on shore power, are you reading 13-14 volts on the positive and negative heavy wires on the converter? (probably red and white cables)
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Old 09-16-2019, 09:55 AM   #29
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Same couch. So to your point, will get the batteries charged (actually may just charge one for the test) and test the solenoid before undertaking that job.


So "if" the solenoid has gone bad, could/would that, be what is blocking shore power to the trailer?


Quote:
Originally Posted by richw46 View Post
Also, on shore power, are you reading 13-14 volts on the positive and negative heavy wires on the converter? (probably red and white cables)
Am very handy with many things, exception is electricity, but am anxious to learn. Most of my best indepth learning has been by making mistakes, which is the main reason I have avoided electricity

I have a multi-meter, but limited knowledge. What setting on the MM would be needed to check this. No doubt I need to get the multi meters for dummies book if they make one...
Assuming the red and white per Snowy pic attached from different thread?

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Old 09-16-2019, 01:01 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred L View Post
Same couch.

Lots of fun taking that out, take pictures if you haven't done it before.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred L View Post
So "if" the solenoid has gone bad, could/would that, be what is blocking shore power to the trailer?
On older AS like ours the Use/Store controls the connection to the batteries. When not on shore, Store disconnects the batteries from everything except the trailer jack and the propane alarm. Connect to shore power and now you have 12 volt in the AS, but not going to the batteries UNLESS you have pressed Use. Your converter provides all the 12 volt power for the AS AND charges the batteries IF and only IF Use has been pressed to connect batteries to shore power. When not on shore, press Use and 12 volt will be available. (Does this happen? If you are not on shore, you press the Use button, do you have lights? If you press Store, do the lights go out?)

If the solenoid is bad it will not prevent 12 volt (or 120 volt) shore power but it could be preventing 12v from the converter from charging your batteries. When you plug into shore power the Use/Store light will be red (12 volt DC present), but unless the switch is in Use position, the batteries won't be charged. So if the solenoid is defective and you aren't hearing that solenoid noise, then you would have 12 in the AS for lights, etc., your batteries wouldn't be charging.

Plug into shore power, put the switch in Use, take a reading at the batteries. You should be reading above 13 volts on each battery. If you are reading only nominal voltage (i.e. 12.3 volts) then there's nothing coming to the batteries so they won't be charged and will just discharge more.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred L View Post
Am very handy with many things, exception is electricity, but am anxious to learn. Most of my best in depth learning has been by making mistakes, which is the main reason I have avoided electricity
I have a multi-meter, but limited knowledge. What setting on the MM would be needed to check this. No doubt I need to get the multi meters for dummies book if they make one...
Assuming the red and white per Snowy pic attached from different thread?
There are 2 types of electricity;
AC - alternating current (can kill you)
DC - direct current (in most cases, safe but car ignitions are much higher)

AC is your house voltage
DC is your car voltage
Your AS has both, lights are DC, air conditioning and microwave are AC.

AC volt reading on multi-meter [Use extra care, 120 volt AC can kill you. For your investigation you don't need to test anything.]
Your MM leads should be Red(+ Ohm V mA) Black Common(-)
Set your dial to 200 ACV. (ac volts)
Plug into shore power (overhead lights have power, microwave clock is on)

DC volt reading on multi-meter (safe voltage, won't shock you)
Your MM leads should be Red(+ Ohm V mA) Black Common(-)
Set your dial to 20 DCV. (dc volts)
Plug into shore power
Press Use
Take a reading on each battery, red lead to positive, black to negative, should read above 13 volts

In your picture, the thick/heavy red and white wires are positive and negative connections to the batteries for charging. A reading here should be above 13 volts (probably 13.8 or 14.x).

Take a reading on each battery, red lead to positive, black to negative, should read above 13 volts.

If the thick wires are above 13 volts and the batteries read below this reading then DC voltage is not going to your batteries for charging.
__________________
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Old 09-17-2019, 09:41 AM   #31
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Thanks Rich, big time. BTW, I took a leap and went to you tube for DMM use and ended up taking a reading on the red and white cables on the converter.

Cant recall exactly what it was, but it was low, perhaps below 10. Will check that again when the new batteries are installed and I plug back in to shore power.

After that, I checked the batteries - dead as I thought... 11.8v after charging.
Bought replacements last night at Costco. On charge now to top off.

Will install them later and report back per your last message.
I also took a look at the L couch last night... i thought you may have been exaggerating just a bit, but best I can tell, the darn thing has to come all the way out....?
Believe you said you did that ? Fingers crossed that the solenoid is good.

If not, will be interested to know if you have recommendations on couch removal process. Will be glad to take pics if I end up having to do it and post it in a separate thread.
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Old 09-17-2019, 01:35 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred L View Post
Thanks Rich, big time. BTW, I took a leap and went to you tube for DMM use and ended up taking a reading on the red and white cables on the converter.

Cant recall exactly what it was, but it was low, perhaps below 10. Will check that again when the new batteries are installed and I plug back in to shore power.
If you are reading 10 volts on the red and white cables on the converter and the converter is plugged in, I would say it's dead, Jim.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred L View Post
After that, I checked the batteries - dead as I thought... 11.8v after charging. Bought replacements last night at Costco. On charge now to top off.
My external charger can provide a leveling (repair) charge. I've had some luck with it on standard acid batteries but not on AGMs. The standard batteries were down to 12.2 and charged up to 12.7. Two of them held that charge for 5 days before dropping. One dropped to 12.5 but it's from 2003 (a Panasonic, OEM in my 2004 4Runner)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred L View Post
Will install them later and report back per your last message. I also took a look at the L couch last night... i thought you may have been exaggerating just a bit, but best I can tell, the darn thing has to come all the way out....?
Believe you said you did that ? Fingers crossed that the solenoid is good.

If not, will be interested to know if you have recommendations on couch removal process. Will be glad to take pics if I end up having to do it and post it in a separate thread.
Yeah, put a new battery or batteries in there and see if that solenoid clicks, usually a click and buzz. (chk-tick...zzzz)

The L-couch is 2 pieces; couch/fold out bed is the biggest section. The other section against the port side wall has an opening all the way in the front where you can see the wires but not reach the solenoid, at least I couldn't. I can go into detail and I have some pics. The storage section behind the couch needs to come out. There are several screws on the top, cloth covered or painted, that screw into the front wall. There are (I think) 3 screws that are on the bottom right edge, below the bed, accessible by crawling in the storage section. The arm on the starboard side has a few screws close to the wall. Take that out and I think you can see but not reach the solenoid on the left side.

Let me know what your investigation shows. I'll give you more details about removal, but not every AS is the same.
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Old 09-18-2019, 09:35 AM   #33
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Thank you again Rich ! Now the latest update.... new batteries charged and installed. Use / Store switch works and solenoid is fine - clicking and getting full lighting (12v).

Put it on store mode and plugged in to shore power and no green led light on the PD4655. In Use mode, the green led on the PD blinks ?
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Old 09-18-2019, 11:07 AM   #34
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I called Randy at Bestconverter and based on a check he had me do of the Conv pos and neg connections, he does not believe I am getting any AC power to the trailer.



Randy suggested I check the power at the circuit breakers. Will check that tonight.
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Old 09-18-2019, 11:41 AM   #35
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Hi

The check for AC is pretty simple:

Pull the cover off the breaker panel (with the power off)

Check for voltage at the power post

Check for voltage at the trailer end of the power cable

(turn post off, connect cable, turn power back on)

Check for voltage at the input to the main breaker(s)

Check for voltage at the output(s) of the main breakers

Check for voltage at the output of the breaker that goes to the converter

Check for voltage at the input to the converter (if you can get at it ..).

In each case you are looking for roughly 120V on the DVM between hot and neutral. Ground to neutral should be near zero volts if you want to check that as well. ( = 10V is to much).

Once the checks are done, power down and put the cover back on the breaker panel.

Bob
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Old 09-18-2019, 01:45 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred L View Post
Thank you again Rich ! Now the latest update.... new batteries charged and installed. Use / Store switch works and solenoid is fine - clicking and getting full lighting (12v).

Put it on store mode and plugged in to shore power and no green led light on the PD4655. In Use mode, the green led on the PD blinks ?
I'll bet you're happy you don't have to pull out the L-Couch.

On shore power and in Store mode there is no charge going to the batteries; normal, but your ceiling lights should be working, Use/Store light will be red. Microwave clock should be on. In Use mode the PD4655 light should be blinking, it shows charging. Did you take a reading at the batteries? It should be 13-14 volts. From the manual:

BOOST MODE Indicated by green LED remaining on. The output voltage is 14.4VDC to rapidly recharge the battery up to 90% of full charge.
NORMAL MODE When the battery is between 50% and 90% charged, the green LED will flash once per second. When the battery has reached 90% of full charge, the green LED will flash 2 - 3 times per second. In this mode the output voltage is 13.6VDC and the converter is safely completing the charge of the battery.
STORAGE MODE Indicated by green LED flashing every 6 - 8 seconds. In this mode the output voltage has been lowered to 13.2VDC, the RV battery is fully charged and the converter is maintaining the charge.
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Old 09-18-2019, 03:33 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by richw46 View Post
I'll bet you're happy you don't have to pull out the L-Couch.

I know I could do that easier than testing for electricity, but youre spot on, that looked like quite the job. Already considered upgrading the fabric on the couch and cushions if we went ahead with that job...



Will take Bobs lead with the testing. But being an electrical novice, may have a few questions..
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Old 09-18-2019, 03:49 PM   #38
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Thanks Bob. Being non electrically gifted, a few questions (some have nothing to do with electric tho )

The check for AC is pretty simple:

Pull the cover off the breaker panel (with the power off)
* check
Check for voltage at the power post
* by power post, assuming the outlet in my garage that i plug the trailer into ? If so, checked and that is all good.
Check for voltage at the trailer end of the power cable
* not sure how to do that as the male end that goes in the outlet is quite different than the female end that connects at the trailer. And probes on my DMM dont fit in the slots on the female end from what I can tell. I did make the attempt to try this to limit the scope before calling Randy.
(turn post off, connect cable, turn power back on)
Check for voltage at the input to the main breaker(s)
* just checking, but assume this is still AC. Will need to figure out what setting on my dmm. For "input", hot black wire going into the back of the 30amp breaker? and do I need to find the mating white neutral ? or just touch the bar? Assuming if this works, then all should be good with the power cable and no need to test that?
Check for voltage at the output(s) of the main breakers
* Ok, "uncle" (meaning i give up ) Bob.
Check for voltage at the output of the breaker that goes to the converter
* Ditto to above
Check for voltage at the input to the converter (if you can get at it ..).
* Ditto to above
In each case you are looking for roughly 120V on the DVM between hot and neutral. Ground to neutral should be near zero volts if you want to check that as well. ( = 10V is to much).
*Will report back once i get the hang of this

Once the checks are done, power down and put the cover back on the breaker panel.

Bob
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Old 09-18-2019, 07:12 PM   #39
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this is the victron converter/inverter we use

we use the 3k model and their MPPT controller

https://www.victronenergy.com/invert...48v-800va-3kva
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Old 09-19-2019, 09:20 AM   #40
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I know I could do that easier than testing for electricity, but youre spot on, that looked like quite the job. Already considered upgrading the fabric on the couch and cushions if we went ahead with that job...

The previous owner had the cushions upgraded to "pleather" or some such, window valences too. If you wanted to do the entire L-Couch then you'd have to take it apart.
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