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Old 09-18-2017, 08:16 AM   #61
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2017 30' Classic
Carlisle , Pennsylvania
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Hi

On a 50A trailer (as wired by AS) it does not matter what you turn on. Flip all the switches run it all. The main breaker will not trip. 100A at 120V is a lot of power for a 200 square foot "house". You can of course plug enough stuff into outlets to trip the internal breakers. Multiple jet engine hair dryers on the same outlet are a no-no.

When you drop back to a 30A feed on a 50A trailer, that all changes. It doesn't matter which leg things are on. They all add up against the same 30A number. L1 + L2 = 30A. You have 30 where you used to have 100. Keep the total under 30 and all will be well.

Lots of fun !!

Bob
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Old 09-19-2017, 08:09 AM   #62
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Hi

It's interesting how much "fun" this whole 2 x 120 / 240V stuff turns into. If you head off to become a EE, you get into the second semester of your sophomore year before they get into the theory behind this. At least that was the way it worked "back in the day". Since they hadn't even bothered to change the course numbers when my kid went through the program, they stuck with that process for quite a while.

Bottom line - no, this isn't obvious or simple. It takes a college quite a while to get even close to this stuff. Explaining it in two sentences or a minute or two ... not so much. There is a lot of theory behind any quick explanation. If you don't have that information, the explanation is just another layer of confusion ...

Bob
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Old 09-19-2017, 10:13 AM   #63
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Originally Posted by uncle_bob View Post
Hi

It's interesting how much "fun" this whole 2 x 120 / 240V stuff turns into. If you head off to become a EE, you get into the second semester of your sophomore year before they get into the theory behind this. At least that was the way it worked "back in the day". Since they hadn't even bothered to change the course numbers when my kid went through the program, they stuck with that process for quite a while.

Bottom line - no, this isn't obvious or simple. It takes a college quite a while to get even close to this stuff. Explaining it in two sentences or a minute or two ... not so much. There is a lot of theory behind any quick explanation. If you don't have that information, the explanation is just another layer of confusion ...

Bob


Hi Bob-from a woman's point of view, I totally have your sentiment. The closest concept I know about electricity is that it powers my curling iron, water and electricity don't mix, and blown fuses are a bad thing.

I'm always trying to learn all the nuances of our AS and why things are the way they are.

My husband installed a 50 amp service on the side of our home where we store our AS. I asked my husband a simple question about all the prongs on a 50 amp plug...120+120=?!! I'm thinking it's suppose to equal 240. No, 120. He patiently explains, "Instead of being limited to 30 amps which is all you can push through one lead, you use two leads and increase to 50 amps." Slowly understanding the concept, he lovingly explained like telling a bedtime story, "Just think of voltage as water "pressure", and amperage as volume flow of that water pressure." Ah, the light bulb in my head gets half lit!

Bob's your uncle!
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Old 09-19-2017, 10:24 AM   #64
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Fortunately it's AC and you have another option. You can change the phase of one of the hot leads. If the two currents are 180 degrees out of phase they cancel out. You get zero current down the neutral. Full load on one side and zero load on the other gives 50A down the neutral. That's ok, it's rated for 50A. When the two hots are 180 degrees out of phase a voltmeter will read 240V between them.

Bob
That phase thing just keeps coming in handy; never understood why the neutral could handle "100 amps". Thanks.
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Old 09-19-2017, 10:32 AM   #65
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Originally Posted by 4riveteers View Post
"Instead of being limited to 30 amps which is all you can push through one lead, you use two leads and increase to 50 amps."
Actually, two 120v leads with 50 amps "each" = 100 amps of real power

30 amp power is 30 amps of real power.
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Old 09-19-2017, 11:48 AM   #66
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Originally Posted by james.mileur View Post
Actually, two 120v leads with 50 amps "each" = 100 amps of real power

30 amp power is 30 amps of real power.

Hi-Interesting. Much thanks but OMG! More confusion. I think this is the very reason why my husband explained it to me the way he did. It's the very thing that makes things so confusing for the layman (me!) to understand electrical concepts. I think it would be like our 16 year old explaining AP Chemistry to his dad!He kept it as simple as possible so I could simply understand that our service is adequate to service the 50 amp in the AS. "K.I.S.S." Bless his heart!❤️ P.S. (Woman's point of view) Excuse my ignorance, so why isn't it called a "100 amp plug" instead of a 50 amp plug? Is there a simple explanation? Thanks ahead!
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Old 09-19-2017, 12:04 PM   #67
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Excuse my ignorance, so why isn't it called a "100 amp plug" instead of a 50 amp plug? Is there a simple explanation? Thanks ahead!
No excuse required; ignorance can be learned away, but "stoopid is, as stoopid does". "And the stupid will be punished."

Read up here and then perhaps you will be able to help him understand something in the future .
(Hint: two 50 amp breakers on the pedestal)

http://www.rv-dreams.com/rv-electrical.html

I do like, "Just think of voltage as water "pressure", and amperage as volume flow of that water pressure."

Cheers,
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Old 09-19-2017, 03:00 PM   #68
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Sorry for beating a dead horse, but there is no difference in wiring an OUTLET in 240 or 2(120). The trailer's wiring determines the 2 (120).
Please allow me to expand. I responded to a claim that Progressive Surge protectors checked for "accidental 240".
Now that my PI EMS 50 arrived and I read their instructions, it appears to me that their claim of detecting "accidental 240" is to protect against a pedestal miswired so the 240 appears between the hot and neutral or the hot and ground or the neutral and ground. (Not between two hots because that is correct.)
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Old 09-19-2017, 03:12 PM   #69
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Please allow me to expand. I responded to a claim that Progressive Surge protectors checked for "accidental 240".
Now that my PI EMS 50 arrived and I read their instructions, it appears to me that their claim of detecting "accidental 240" is to protect against a pedestal miswired so the 240 appears between the hot and neutral or the hot and ground or the neutral and ground. (Not between two hots because that is correct.)
How do get to 240v with only one hot lead? Remember, old MM, not EM.

Doesn't an old 3 wire 240 outlet use two 120v hots and one return?
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Old 09-19-2017, 03:24 PM   #70
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Hi

Ideally what a EMS would do is to check for 240 between L1 and L2. That is correct, but you want to be *sure* it's correct in the full 50A case. Since zero volts between L1 and L2 is ok in the 30A case, it would have to be pretty smart to figure out this and that. Since the 100A issue is in the neutral, sensing for it is a bit "interesting".

Bob
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Old 09-25-2017, 04:51 PM   #71
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I bought an adapter from a 20 AMP. I use it all the time to charge batteries and it allows us to load things up in the dark without using the batteries. As long as you don’t overload the system it should be just fine.

In fact I plan on doing this when I go to our kids. They only have a 20 Amp outlet on the house. We won’t have to run the AC because it will be cool in October. And we’ll use LP for the water heater, refrigerator, and heating. No different than boondocking.
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Old 09-25-2017, 05:14 PM   #72
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I mounted a sub panel next to the main disconnect on the outside near the meter. That way I have a 50a circuit just for the trailer. Cost was less than $100 and I have full use of the trailer. Now if I could figure out a way to empty black
tank, I could use it for my "dog house" when needed!
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Old 09-25-2017, 07:46 PM   #73
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I mounted a sub panel next to the main disconnect on the outside near the meter. That way I have a 50a circuit just for the trailer. Cost was less than $100 and I have full use of the trailer. Now if I could figure out a way to empty black

tank, I could use it for my "dog house" when needed!


Get the macerator pump that attaches to your tank drain on the trailer. Attach a garden hose and run it to your home sewer clean out port. Attach macerator, attach hose, place hose in sewer clean out, turn on macerator and wait patiently.
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Old 09-26-2017, 09:29 AM   #74
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Get the macerator pump that attaches to your tank drain on the trailer. Attach a garden hose and run it to your home sewer clean out port. Attach macerator, attach hose, place hose in sewer clean out, turn on macerator and wait patiently.
Got a recommended model? Sounds better than schlepping 5 gal buckets like I did for two months 30' to the clean out.
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Old 09-27-2017, 12:19 AM   #75
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My clean out is over 100' away.
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Old 09-27-2017, 03:05 AM   #76
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There are plenty of threads on the macerator/hose solution for emptying the black tank:

https://www.google.com/search?q=mace...=airforums.com

The Waste Systems forum is also a good place to look:

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f444/

The Flojet system seems popular:

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f444...kit-24316.html

Good luck finding a good solution on one of those threads.

Peter
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Old 09-27-2017, 07:07 AM   #77
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I just bought a Flojet. You will also need to hook up a power source to it because it's 12v system. So I bought a 12v 20amp battery with a battery box. It will be easy to put on my charger when I get home if I use it away. And you only need to run the Flojet for about 5 minutes. Charge should last a bit.
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