Can a EasyStart-Equiped AC really run from a Honda 2000?

[daleyocum]

I’m looking at whether I’m going to need to install a hybrid inverter in our new FC 25FB. The deciding factor is if I were to add an EasyStart system to the AC can a Honda 2000 generator really power the AC? If so can it power it at 5500 feet? Higher? I was planning on running normal fuel, not propane.

If the Honda can power the AC then we would wire things so it can do that exclusively while the (solar charged) batteries and a 2000watt inverter do everything else like lights, pump, TV, etc.

If not we’d pay the extra $1000 and get a hybrid inverter (Victron Multiplus 3000) so it can supplement the generator with the battery during compressor starts, etc.

[trumpetguy]

Do you really need AC at 5500 feet?

My setup is 500 Watts PV, 3000 watt Magnum hybrid inverter, 4 six volt golf cart batteries, 2000 Watt Honda, plus Easy Start. We use our inverter to run AC for short periods while having lunch or for a short break. The Honda is not needed. The AC draws >100 AHs so the batteries draw down quickly. We need the Honda to charge batteries during cloudy spells which occur regularly where we camp in Summer. Asheville area. Remember the Easy Start is only active at start up and will not reduce the running AMPs of the AC.

[ROBERT CROSS]

......make sure the Honda is up to the task.

Our Honda 2000i LP conversion has a mixture adjustment that can be set for Altitude.

Bob

[uncle_bob]

Hi

The Honda (or even better the newer Yamaha) will run a single AC. It's not going to do much else at the same time. A 2,000W inverter is going to flatten any normal battery stack pretty fast. You can do this or that, the total power budget probably isn't going to work out ...

Bob

[daleyocum]

On my last RV we were able to run the EasyStart-equipped AC just fine at a 4500ft altitude with a Magnum Hybrid Inverter, a 200AH battery bank and a Honda 2000 generator. What I was wondering is if I really needed the Magnum inverter and if the EasyStart was really the one doing the work. I sadly never did that test before I sold it. I’m pretty sure it would have worked at sea level, it’s the altitude part where I’m unsure.

Nothing worked well without the EasyStart, those things are fantastic.

[DaveP]

We live in Colorado at 7500 feet and have the Easystart on our A/C. One Honda 2000i, with high altitude jets, really struggles to run the A/C at this altitude and usually overloads. At my son's house in Denver at 5500 feet, the single Honda does just fine. We have two Hondas which we run in parallel when we need the power to run the A/C at high altitudes.

[2dabeach]

"If not we’d pay the extra $1000 and get a hybrid inverter (Victron Multiplus 3000) so it can supplement the generator with the battery during compressor starts, etc."

Daleyocum.... Am I understanding you correctly that your thinking of supplying your A/C during startup with 120 volts A/C power from an inverter and 120 volts A/C power from a generator during the startup of the A/C ? How are you planning to do that ?

[DaveP]

If you have a hybrid Magnum or Victron inverter, they pass the shore power through their circuits. They will push up the "shore" power if it falls below a certain level using the batteries. PFM!

[daleyocum]

Originally Posted by 2dabeach

"If not we’d pay the extra $1000 and get a hybrid inverter (Victron Multiplus 3000) so it can supplement the generator with the battery during compressor starts, etc."

Daleyocum.... Am I understanding you correctly that your thinking of supplying your A/C during startup with 120 volts A/C power from an inverter and 120 volts A/C power from a generator during the startup of the A/C ? How are you planning to do that ?

The Victron Multiplus and Magnum Energy MSH series hybrid inverter/chargers are able to do quite the magic trick in that they can take shore power and mix it, if necessary, with battery power and supply 120v at higher current when the need exists. You can set the amount of current they are allowed to draw from the generator/shore and they'll draw from that exclusively as long as the load is less than that amount. When it exceeds that amount of current, like during AC compressor start, it will start inverting and mix the two.

These 3000 watt units start around $1,500 but there's a lot of other stuff you'd get to go with them (panels, battery monitors and the like) which drives the price up into the mid-$2,000's pre-installation.

[DaveP]

Last spring, I got the Magnum MSH3012M, the Magnum battery monitor and the remote control unit for $2400 from sepbatteries.com. The hybrid system does work when I am running the microwave or A/C on insufficient shore power.

[uncle_bob]

Originally Posted by daleyocum

The Victron Multiplus and Magnum Energy MSH series hybrid inverter/chargers are able to do quite the magic trick in that they can take shore power and mix it, if necessary, with battery power and supply 120v at higher current when the need exists. You can set the amount of current they are allowed to draw from the generator/shore and they'll draw from that exclusively as long as the load is less than that amount. When it exceeds that amount of current, like during AC compressor start, it will start inverting and mix the two.

These 3000 watt units start around $1,500 but there's a lot of other stuff you'd get to go with them (panels, battery monitors and the like) which drives the price up into the mid-$2,000's pre-installation.

Hi

There's one gotcha there. With a "weak" shore power connection, the voltage sags. The magic gizmo sees this and takes care of the issue. With an inverter / generator, you get a bunch of power for a short while (maybe seconds, maybe minutes). The generator electronics slowly heat up. Once they get hot, they start to do weird things. It's not real clear that even the Victron magic can cope with that.

Putting out 3000W from an inverter implies you are pulling in more than 3KW from the batteries. You likely are in the 270 to 300A range off of a 12V battery bank. If you are running at C/4 that implies a bank in the 1200AH range. Yes, there are more than a few assumptions there.

Any generator that does not have a turbo charger or super charger on it will loose power at altitude. 20 to 30% is a pretty good number for high altitude camping. In addition, you loose power when you convert to propane. The "2000" generators mostly are ~1600W generators steady state. That's at sea level and on gasoline. That's also with a clean carburetor. 1200 to 1400W is a pretty good guess for one running at altitude.

Depending on just what it's actually doing, a 13,500 to 15,000 BTU AC / Heat Pump will pull anywhere from 10 to 15A steady state. That's true with or without an Easy Start on it. That comes out to 1200 to 1800W. Yes, the numbers are correct, there are cases (generally heat pump cycle) that a "2000" generator may not handle even at low altitudes.

None of this is exact. There's easily a 10% variance generator to generator. Is Honda ahead of Yamaha on this year's models? Who knows.( I believe they are behind). Do you have this year's latest and greatest or one from 5 years ago? There also are variations in AC units. A 15,000 BTU will pull more power than 13,500 BTU. An efficient design will do better than a low cost AC.

Toss in age to all of this and it's even more confusing. AC units do not just die all at once. They tend to pull more power as they age. Small engines gunk up with use. My carb may be in worse shape than yours. That all drops their power output. Generator brushes get dirty, inverter heatsinks get crud in them. All of this makes things worse.

Lots of variables.

Bob

[sburrw]

Our EasyStart works fine here in Florida using the Yamaha 2000iSv2, but not at higher elevations, such as 4000ft.

[daleyocum]

Thanks everyone. I think I'll just go with what I know works from experience and stick with an EasyStart AC with a Hybrid Inverter, probably the Victron. It's more expensive but cheaper if I do it now as part of the solar upgrade as I can get the 30% tax credit. If I do it later that's not as clear.

[DaveP]

Daleyocum,

Just curious. Is that a tax credit from the state of Oregon?

[daleyocum]

Originally Posted by DaveP

Daleyocum,

Just curious. Is that a tax credit from the state of Oregon?

I’m just using the federal program

Oregon’s program sunsets at the end of this year. It was really intended for larger residential systems. In my case it’s only worth about $500 but the catch is it has to be installed by a special licensed solar installer which wipes out that savings (I’m planning on doing it myself.).

[glcmranger]

it's a Federal IRS Tax Credit. Runs through 2019. Afterwards, it starts phasing out.

[mythbuster88]

Originally Posted by daleyocum

Thanks everyone. I think I'll just go with what I know works from experience and stick with an EasyStart AC with a Hybrid Inverter, probably the Victron. It's more expensive but cheaper if I do it now as part of the solar upgrade as I can get the 30% tax credit. If I do it later that's not as clear.

Your plan seems good to me.

The single Honda will start an AC modified with Easy Start but it is right on the edge of its capabilities. More than once this very hot summer at altitude we had to run two propane powered Hondas in parallel to get some cool air from one AC.

Also an AC modified with an Easy Start may sound like its running but the compressor may in fact not be running.

The hybrid Inverter will get you over the current threshold.

RC

[DaveP]

Originally Posted by daleyocum

I’m just using the federal program

Oregon’s program sunsets at the end of this year. It was really intended for larger residential systems. In my case it’s only worth about $500 but the catch is it has to be installed by a special licensed solar installer which wipes out that savings (I’m planning on doing it myself.).

I had no idea...