Bleed Current?

[65CV]

Originally Posted by perryg114

I still don't know what the issue is. The neutral and ground have to be connected together somewhere. Someone explain it to me. I read the previous post and it said don't use the same ground for the 12VDC as the AC. I don't think I suggested that. If you wire your pigtail backwards the hot will go to ground and the breaker will trip.

Perry

My son, a Master Electrician, explained this to me when we redid the Overlander. I am not an electrician, but I understand the issue as follows.

If the polarity is wrong, hot is connected to neutral and neutral is connected to hot. If the ground is properly connected at the post and properly bonded to the trailer, you have a degree of protection.

Here's the really dangerous scenario: If the improperly wired "neutral" -- really hot -- is bonded to ground in the trailer AND the post is not properly grounded, your trailer frame and shell are HOT. This is what Lewster refers to as a 'Hot Skin' Condition.

Imagine standing in a puddle of water and inserting your metal key in the door in that situation.

To reiterate -- nothing in this post is intended as electrical advice. I am not an electrician.

[TerraYacht]

If the GFCI is popping then there is enough current flowing to ground that could kill you! If that much current is in the skin then it could be relatively easy for you to become the "short circuit."

Pay attention to Paula's #3 on the list: the photo you posted is the kind of thing that shows up in my weekly "code violations" emails.

In your photo, I only see part of one green wire so it appears that grounding is not correct. The house wiring needs to meet code before you pursue any issues with the trailer. It sounds like you are plugging in to 120vac, but if you need 220 or need an rv plug (not the "standard" house plug) then Lew's cautions also apply.

[perryg114]

Ok I see the point about the GFCI tripping because the neutral and ground are tied together. The neutral and ground can be bonded together but if they are, the GFCI won't work. The shell should always be grounded no matter what. I try not to use GFCI circuits because they don't like inductive loads and the cheap ones the builders put in don't hold up. So should there be two separate grounding bars in a trailer box, one for the neutral and one for the ground? and only the ground bar should be hooked to the box? The ground bar should also be hooked to the trailer shell.

I am going to look at the Airstream schematics and see how it was originally wires at least for a 70's model trailer.

Ok here is an electrical breaker box schematic on page 8-35. It does show two separate bars with the neutral bar separate from the grounding bar.

http://www.motorcycleproducts.org/AS...Electrical.pdf

Perry

[lewster]

Originally Posted by perryg114

Ok I see the point about the GFCI tripping because the neutral and ground are tied together. The neutral and ground can be bonded together but if they are, the GFCI won't work. The shell should always be grounded no matter what. I try not to use GFCI circuits because they don't like inductive loads and the cheap ones the builders put in don't hold up. So should there be two separate grounding bars in a trailer box, one for the neutral and one for the ground? and only the ground bar should be hooked to the box? The ground bar should also be hooked to the trailer shell.

I am going to look at the Airstream schematics and see how it was originally wires at least for a 70's model trailer.

Perry

Perry, ALL recreational vehicles have separate neutral and ground bus bars (remove the cover of your trailer's AC breaker box when off-grid and you can see the separate bars). The neutral is NEVER bonded to the ground within the vehicle. Any neutral to ground bonding takes place at the source of the power: within your house. In a house, this is a safety to allow any stray current to pass to ground (which is usually attached to the re-bar in your foundation, a long grounding rod pounded into the earth, or deep cold water copper or metallic pipe).

If the two were connected together in the RV, the neutral would then be passing thru your frame via the grounding bond and would energize your frame (and the entire trailer in an Airstream) with the potential to shock or kill you!. While the AC and DC grounds are bonded at the frame, the neutral must never be included in this.

[perryg114]

I got it Lewster. The neutral never touches the shell. I am learning how it is done and why it is done. I think we are all on the same page now.

Perry

[Jammer]

Listen to the advice. You're in over your head.

[perryg114]

At least he knows what to tell the electrician to do and he has some schematics to back it up.

Perry

[Ag&Au]

Originally Posted by perryg114

At least he knows what to tell the electrician to do and he has some schematics to back it up.

Perry

If he needs to tell the electrician what to do, he needs a different electrician.

Ken

[TerraYacht]

Originally Posted by Ag&Au

If he needs to tell the electrician what to do, he needs a different electrician.

Ken

Agree 110%: this is basic proper wiring.

@Ken: nice cat. We used to travel with one in the moho, left the other 2 home (see below). the old traveling guy is gone now, so we will camp catless unless Doorgunner brings his next month.

[Ag&Au]

Originally Posted by TerraYacht

Agree 110%: this is basic proper wiring.

@Ken: nice cat. We used to travel with one in the moho, left the other 2 home (see below). the old traveling guy is gone now, so we will camp catless unless Doorgunner brings his next month.

That's two beautiful cats.

My avatar is Daisy, this will be her 10th year of trailer travel. She currently has two cute Asian boys who travel with her, Tiger who is least half Siamese and Kimba who appears to be 100% Bengal.
(all 3 are shelter cats we got as kittens). If you check this thread you will find pictures of all three of them, plus a lot of other airstream travelling pets.

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f239...nk-106764.html

Ken

[65CV]

One more quote from my son -- who just passed his Master Electrician license this year.

"A Ground Fault Interrupter will protect your circuitry. An Arc-Fault Ground-Fault Interrupter will protect you."

Consult a qualified electrician for an explanation and installation.