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Old 01-20-2025, 11:48 AM   #1
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Battery Weight Distribution

I am about to add two of the Epoch 460h v2 batteries to my 27' GT FBT. Each of the batteries weighs 95 lbs and are 20.9x8.7x12.1 (LxWxH). The batteries must be mounted upright. They will be replacing two 100 AH battleborn batteries in the battery box.


My question is where to put them. My options are:


1 ) Put them in the rearmost interior cabinet under the twin beds. With one on each side, it would balance the weight between the two sides. They would be a bit further back, which would probably lessen a bit of the hitch weight hit.


2) Put them under the twin bed, but in the outer compartment as far forward as they can go. This puts the weight directly over the frame and furthest to the outside. This would still be balanced between the frame sides. It would increase the tongue weight, but likely negligible vs option 1.


3) Put them in the front compartment. This is a bit difficult because I'm not sure that the batteries can be removed/added from the front for maintenance. They would also be on one side which may/may not be an issue.


4) The last option is to put both in the street side interior compartments of the twin bed. This would allow me to put the Victron multiplus 2/Lynx/etc in the outer compartment on that side. This would result in the cleanest wiring (shortest and tidiest). Unfortunately it would result in an extra 250 lbs in the front street side. Cooling *may* be an issue. My 12v distribution box, shore power, etc are all on the street side.


Which would you recommend? Option 4 has the best wiring and makes maintenance the cleanest. Option 1 is likely the best for weight, but I lose two interior compartments (Which I don't really use). The hitch weight is a non-issue for the TV, but could put the hitch weight over 15%.


And for those of you that followed my battery issues, this is unrelated. Now that everything is working I need more power!!! (and I can't leave well enough alone).
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Old 01-20-2025, 11:54 AM   #2
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its best to place the batteries close together and run copper bus bars between them
1. place the batteries on one side
2. place the converter and other electronics d on the other side
3. ensure that there is a large enough raceway between the two side to run cables etc.

if you place the heavier items closer to the AS wheels i.e. away from the front, it reduces Tongue weight as well as ensures the load is closer to he trailer center
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Old 01-20-2025, 12:26 PM   #3
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Interesting question. I've wondered how balanced our trailer is to begin with. With the stove, sink, and lot of components on the curbside, I'd sort of guess it's biased to that side. The tanks seem to be in the middle. Does Airstream even consider this? So 200lbs or so might not make a whole lot of difference for weight distribution.

I completely agree with @Wan39, the batteries absolutely have to be close together. I can't see how if separated any distance you'd have to run some very heavy cable between them and it would be less than ideal for battery balance.

Our 4x100 batteries (100lb) are located under the curbside bed on the side with the 12V box (the 27' is on the other side?), but I don't think there is enough space for your larger batteries there. If you look through the forums (hopefully someone else will respond with experience) I recall putting the battery bank under the streetside twin is a good option. I think the Multiplus needs to be co-located, in fact it's going to need rather heavy gauge cables running to it from the battery bank and I wouldn't want to run those any length.
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Old 01-20-2025, 12:38 PM   #4
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I was looking forward to your response. Right now I'm planning to connect the batteries independently to a bus bar (either lynx power-in, a Blue Sea HD switch, or both to a terminal). I will be using 4/0 wiring. These batteries have an on/off button as well as a 500a t-class fuse built in. It also has Victron comms so I will be connecting it to the Cerbo GX. I think this gives me many more options than daisy chaining them. I'll be able to remove/disconnect/recharge either battery at will. Do you see anything faulty with this logic?



Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffKim View Post
Interesting question. I've wondered how balanced our trailer is to begin with. With the stove, sink, and lot of components on the curbside, I'd sort of guess it's biased to that side. The tanks seem to be in the middle. Does Airstream even consider this? So 200lbs or so might not make a whole lot of difference for weight distribution.

I completely agree with @Wan39, the batteries absolutely have to be close together. I can't see how if separated any distance you'd have to run some very heavy cable between them and it would be less than ideal for battery balance.

Our 4x100 batteries are located under the curbside bed, but I don't think there is enough space for your larger batteries there. If you look through the forums (hopefully someone else will respond with experience) I recall putting the battery bank under the streetside twin is a good option. I think the Multiplus needs to be co-located, in fact it's going to need rather heavy gauge cables running to it from the battery bank and I wouldn't want to run those any length.
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Old 01-20-2025, 01:00 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by os1r1s View Post
I was looking forward to your response.
That might be a mistake, ha ha.

You might have participated on other threads with electrical layout questions, but one thing is even if you think it's relatively straightforward, I'd draw it all out and make sure you have the wire gauges and fusing worked out. You'll probably need a Lynx. I'll attach my drawing I did in draw.io.

I'm envious of your battery power and technology. Even two years ago when I did ours unless I spent a boatload there wasn't any Bluetooth or individual switches, built in t-fuses, much less Victron connectivity. I can see where in a year or two I might have to do an update. I was planning on adding a Cerbo this year.

From what I gather this makes sense. Being able to switch off batteries individually is great, but I'd also have a main cutoff for both (is that the Blue Sea?).

Victron just came out with their new NG batteries and Lynx, I'd look into these. They are supposed to be amazingly small although the Epoch are supposed to be great also and probably cheaper.
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Old 01-20-2025, 01:11 PM   #6
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Yeah, $3200 for 920AH of lithium is pretty insane. I have laid most of it out, but it varies quite a bit between the options so I was trying to nail that down first.



I can use a single blue sea HD switch or I can use 2 6006 switches. My temptation is to use the following order: Battery -> 250A fuse -> 6006 switch -> Lynx Shunt -> Lynx Distro . The Lynx Shunt will have a 325A fuse. The Lynx distributor will have ones applicable to each branch. If I used an HD switch, it would be the same, but I would use a 4-way switch (Batt 1, Batt 2, Batt 1 + 2, Batt off) with one connection to the Lynx Shunt.
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Old 01-20-2025, 01:51 PM   #7
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Just keep you wiring to the bus bar equal length gives you some flexibility. Several of the YT installers show various large DC breakers with suitable AIC ratings. They have two pole versions which disconnect both terminals. This is nice when working on the system. I thought I had book marked the one company, but can’t find it now.
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Old 01-20-2025, 06:29 PM   #8
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Thanks for the response. These particular batteries don't lend themselves well to copper bus bars. Also, their size would prohibit it. It would actually be nice to use them rather than cables. Lot's of good suggestions. I will make sure I have a raceway for them to run across the trailer.
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Old 01-20-2025, 07:29 PM   #9
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os1r1s, I am envious of your Epoch setup!

I found a diagram in the Epoch manual that recommends using a busbar (see below). You could use a Blue Sea HD 4-way disconnect switch as the positive busbar by running a cable from each battery to the two inputs on the switch. The nice thing about doing it this way is you can isolate either battery by selecting which one on the switch then use 1+2 for both.

From the switch’s single output you can run one cable to a Lynx Distributor and connect your loads, individually fused.

You could put both Epochs close together in the front compartment and put the MultiPlus II inside the street side compartment. I actually did the reverse, mounting the MP II inside the front compartment near the curb side, and one Battle Born GC3 inside the street side compartment.

Either way, try and keep your battery cables as short as possible and equal lengths. Also, I’d recommend using the Blue Sea HD 3003 switch because it’s rated 500A continuous and 700A intermittent. With two Epoch 460Ah you’ll be safer with that capacity.

Good luck with your project!
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Old 01-20-2025, 09:19 PM   #10
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When I mentioned the HD switch, that was the exact one that I was thinking about. This is the layout I'm thinking of.
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The challenge with putting the batteries in the front compartment is that these batteries have to be vertical. That makes taking them in and out difficult. I have about 14.5" of clearance vertically and the batteries about 12.1" That makes access the tops very difficult. If I could get past that hurdle, getting them in/out is rough. I have a 10" high hole to stick them through and then I'd have to rotate them up. I could remove the cabinetry, but I don't want to have to do that anytime I need to remove the battery. On the flip side if I put them in the cabinet (flip down door), I have two 24" spots where I can easily mount/unmount/maintain them. Let me know what you think.
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Old 01-20-2025, 09:29 PM   #11
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Also, would you mind pointing to pictures/descriptions of how you mounted the MC2 down to the floor? I want to do the same. I think I can get that rail from HD. Did you bolt it through the floor (out the bottom of the AS) or just use screws? Are those T-nuts in the rail? Can you get to those screws easily after taking the MC2 cover off? Thanks!!
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Old 01-20-2025, 10:40 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by os1r1s View Post
Also, would you mind pointing to pictures/descriptions of how you mounted the MC2 down to the floor? I want to do the same. I think I can get that rail from HD. Did you bolt it through the floor (out the bottom of the AS) or just use screws? Are those T-nuts in the rail? Can you get to those screws easily after taking the MC2 cover off? Thanks!!
Glad to share! Ronnie Dennis, Airstream Nuts and Bolts recommended using a piece of Unistrut to hold the MP II off the floor. I picked it up at Menards along with nuts that fit in the channel (sold alongside the channel). I screwed the channel to the floor using 1/4” lag bolts then bolted the Victron to the channel.

Back to your previous post, I removed the bedroom furniture so I could easily run the 6/3 wire from the MultiPlus back to the breaker panel (two lengths, one from the Shore Power input to the MP II and another from the output side to the MP II to the breaker panel.

I assumed the GC3 wouldn’t be removed from the trailer. You could put both Epochs in the center of the front compartment so they’re close to reduce wire length and put the MP II in the street side compartment. That would save you several feet of 6/3 wire.
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Old 01-20-2025, 10:52 PM   #13
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Perfect. That's why I was thinking of putting the MC2 on that side. I'd have to drill a few holes in the cabinets to route the 6/3, but the routing should be pretty easy. 3 more questions for now.


1) Did you bother with a junction box for the 6/3, or did you just run new wire?


2) Did you use some method to hold down the 6/3 wire? For me it will route under the shower and then the closet. One side clearly goes to the shore plug and the other goes to the distro box (under the fridge). Its all pretty close on that side.


3) I see you mounted your CerboGX in the front compartment. Where did you put the touchscreen controller?
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Old 01-20-2025, 11:27 PM   #14
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Sorry to be a bit late to this party...

My suggestion would be to place the batteries as close to over the axles as possible. Placing them all the way to the rear of the trailer would lighten the tongue weight, but at the expense of making the trailer more unstable and prone to handling problems on the road.

Heavy items like this are perfect for providing a smooth ride if placed as near to centered over the axles as possible. This is why the water tank is located in the middle like it is and not in the rear. I'd be less concerned with separating the two batteries a bit than the weight, as long as 4/0 cable is being used.

When we traveled in our vintage 1974 bus conversion the coach batteries were in the rear of the bus and the cables that connected them to the massive HVAC system were in the front. By using 4/0 cables to make the connections, things worked. They used massive copper bus bars to make the connections and fine thread copper cables, resulting in minimal voltage drop. So I don't see a problem with the batteries separated by a few feet as long as the cable lengths are equal-ish and done properly.
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Old 01-21-2025, 08:51 AM   #15
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Richard, I'm not sure I can place them any closer to the axles. In my case though with a front bed Airstream, it is likely a better situation than a rear bed Airstream. Would you agree?
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Old 01-21-2025, 09:05 AM   #16
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Richard, I'm not sure I can place them any closer to the axles. In my case though with a front bed Airstream, it is likely a better situation than a rear bed Airstream. Would you agree?
From the research I've read, extra weight forward of the axles won't create the same type of imbalance situation that it will at the rear of the trailer. But it will contribute to tongue weight and we all know that can be a problem for many tow vehicles.

If I was trying to jam two 95 lb batteries in my trailer I'd be trying to get them as near to the axle center as possible while also keeping the weight centered side-to-side.

From the diagram you posted it looks like you're adding both to the same side. Not sure if there's a way to do it, but if you could put one on each side with 4/0 jumpers between through the belly pan it would be more stable IMO. It would also keep the weight more towards the axles. I know you plan to offset with the electronics, but that probably won't come close to the weight of the batteries.
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Old 01-21-2025, 09:10 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by os1r1s View Post
Perfect. That's why I was thinking of putting the MC2 on that side. I'd have to drill a few holes in the cabinets to route the 6/3, but the routing should be pretty easy. 3 more questions for now.


1) Did you bother with a junction box for the 6/3, or did you just run new wire?


2) Did you use some method to hold down the 6/3 wire? For me it will route under the shower and then the closet. One side clearly goes to the shore plug and the other goes to the distro box (under the fridge). Its all pretty close on that side.


3) I see you mounted your CerboGX in the front compartment. Where did you put the touchscreen controller?
I took advantage of the upgrade to install a Hughes WatchDog internal EMS and removed the shore power’s 6/3 from the breaker panel and ran that into the input side of the WatchDog. I did remove the bottom of the wardrobe to gain access to the space.

From the output side I ran it into a disconnect/breaker box (recommended by Victron). From there I ran the 6/3 under the shower, through the stainless steel chase for the heater duct and up against the outside wall of the street side compartment.

I used a flexible sheath to hold both runs of 6/3 together and used metal clamps with rubber covers all the way to the MP II.

I chose to mount the Cerbo display in the street side shirt locker since the thermostat was already there. I used a male-male HDMI connector and a longer HDMI cable to extend it from the Display to the Cerbo. I tested this before running the cable and it worked great. No regrets with the location.

One other thing, after trying the system with just the Cerbo display I decided to install a Victron MultiControl panel in the lounge area using the original CAT5 cable left over from the old Atkinson solar controller. It’s so handy - just dial up the shore power amp and choose charge only or inverter.

Feel free to send me a PM if you’d like more info. I’ll share my contact information. Always glad to share my experiences if it can save someone time.

-Jeff
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Old 01-21-2025, 09:28 AM   #18
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Balancing battery weight

Richard, I agree with your logic of splitting the batteries to better balance the load. Have you seen what Airstream did with the new Trade Wind’s three GC3’s?

They’re mounted under the floor all in a row, I think close to the rear axle. This would make sense, keep the weight as low as possible and close to the center of the trailer. I wonder how they offset the weight on the other side?

Given the limitations that os1r1s has with the twin bed layout, he might be better mounting one on either side under the bed closest to the front. This would allow equal distance to the center where he can join the cables together.

I know it’s not close to the center of the trailer but does allow for easy routing of the cables and being under the bed, relative easy access to remove them or perform maintenance. The OP also mentioned he’s planning to use Epoch’s communications ports to the Victron so those cables need to be considered.

Lots of ways to slice this problem!
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Old 01-21-2025, 09:45 AM   #19
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This is what my setup looks like
under the Queen bed in a 2023 FC 25FBQH

the display for the cerbo is in the bathroom. that why there is no flashing light when the door is closed

i also placed it there as there is easy access to under the bed from the bathroom

3 of the pics are after wiring. 1 show the batteries and bus bar before wiring
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Old 01-21-2025, 10:06 AM   #20
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Ok, I've visualized my options I described originally as option 1 and option 2.
Let me know what you think of each one ...




This first option has the advantage of balancing between the two sides. It puts the batteries closer to the axles, but not by much. The curb side front twin inner compartment cannot be used due to the size. It is 1" too short. The wire length of the batteries for this run is likely to be about 7'. I will be able to access them inside the trailer. I don't know the substructure of the AS, but I'm hoping it can handle the weight on the floor at that point.



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This second option puts them a bit closer to the front, but spreads it to the two sides of the trailer. It will be supported by the diagonal components of the frame, so good support structure. The wires will likely have to be 8'-10' to facilitate this configuration. The other problem with this one is I've impacted all three front compartments and reduced my exterior storage significantly.



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