Battery use and store switch and converter

[Linda Latham]

I'm a newbie to Air Streams, and have questions for those who may have encountered this or has any insight to problem. My battery store switch will not turn on when shore power is disconnected to trailer. I switch it on and no red light appears at switch, but when I switch back to store position, I hear a click that sounds like a solenoid coming from the converter. When plugged into shore power, the red light on the battery use/store switch is ON. I, also, checked the charge on the battery today, and it is showing 60% charge after the trailer has been plugged into a 15 amp service for pass few days. Should the converter be charging the batteries while plugged into the 15 amps? If so, do I a converter and switch problem or could they be related? Each time I tried using the battery use switch, the batteries were showing 90% charge and with trailer plugged into shore power the batteries show 12.6 V or more. The AS is parked under covered storage so no direct sunlight is getting to the solar panel for charging the batteries. The AS is a 2017 International Serenity and thankfully has a few more months under warranty.
Thanks

[pcskier]

I'm not sure I totally follow this. But if you are hearing a 'click' it is likely working.

Try this: NOT plugged in to shore power, can you turn on lights in trailer? Then when you click the use/store switch to off, does it click and the lights go off? And then press switch to "use", and you hear the click, and the lights come back on? If so...the switch is working.

The red light is always on when plugged in to shore power, no matter if the switch is in use or store position.

And for 2017, I am pretty sure...if plugged in to shore power, but the switch is set to "store", the batteries won't charge. Even though the use/store red light is on. You need to press it to "use" to be sure. While you were plugged in to shore power, if the switch was on 'store', the batteries were not charging.

Finally...if you are plugged in to shore power, and the switch is in 'use' position, the batteries will be charging and the monitor will show battery voltage of 13.X volts...reading the voltage coming from the charger. If you are plugged in, switch is in 'use', and voltage shows as 12.6...you are having a problem with your converter/charger.

[uncle_bob]

Hi

First off, it sounds like your batteries need a good charge. They can go dead flat in a fairly short time so that maybe isn't a big surprise. If they are flooded cells, check to see if they need water.

Your converter / charger may or may not be working. If you have a multimeter you can check the 120V into it and the voltage out of it. If it does not check out, get it replaced. On a 2017, you may or may not still be in warranty.

From a dead flat battery, it will take many hours to get back to a full charge with a working converter. Running on shore power for a day is a pretty good idea if you suspect a flattened battery.

If after being plugged in for a day, your battery voltage still is below 12.6V when charging, it's a good bet the batteries have issues and both of them need to be replaced.

=====

None of that gets to the use/store switch. Unfortunately there are two ways the switch can get wired. The "correct" way puts the charger on the battery regardless of the position of the switch. The "other" way disconnects it from the battery when in the use position. Yes that's strange. Simple way to check it is to look at the converter output with it set both ways. If the converter output changes a lot when the switch it thrown ... it's probably wired the "other" way.

Lots of fun !!!!

Bob

[Linda Latham]

Thanks to both uncle bob and pcskier for the reply. I'll go over tomorrow and give those items a check. Two weeks ago both the lights and vent fan ran on battery, now nothing. I only hear the click when I toggle the switch down to store no click when switch toggled to use.
Thanks again

[68 Overlander]

There is no solenoid in your Parallax converter. On a 2017 model, you either have the 8355 (30 amp service) or the 5355 (50 amp service) but you can check the function on either the same way. Put a multimeter on the fuse board Pos and Neg lugs that come from the converter below where they lands on the fuse board. Blue and white wires. Should be 13.8 VDC since Parallax does not use a multi stage converter. It will over charge if left connected continuously.

[OTRA15]

Welcome to the forum, Linda!

Have you checked your AS owner's manual about the Use/Store switch?

As suggested earlier, sometimes a "full-scale-model" approach is a good start for electrical issues like this.

After charging the batteries to at least 12.5 volts [wait an hour after disconnecting shore power], try these simple steps:

Not on shore power -- turn on overhead lights, and click Use/Store switch on and off -- do lights go on and off?

On shore power -- do the same thing -- same question.

You don't need any fancy meters etc. to perform these simple tests. Note red light on/off for each step above, and write it down in your trailer's log book. Please report back on test results.

Good luck,

Peter

PS -- A good resource for RV battery info:

http://www.batteriesnorthwest.com/batteryschool.cfm

[uncle_bob]

Originally Posted by 68 Overlander

There is no solenoid in your Parallax converter. On a 2017 model, you either have the 8355 (30 amp service) or the 5355 (50 amp service) but you can check the function on either the same way. Put a multimeter on the fuse board Pos and Neg lugs that come from the converter below where they lands on the fuse board. Blue and white wires. Should be 13.8 VDC since Parallax does not use a multi stage converter. It will over charge if left connected continuously.

Hi

The use / store switch runs a latching relay. The sound of it doing it's thing is very much like a solenoid. It's mounted on a board completely separate from the converter / charger. It latches so that it does not pull power to stay in one position or the other. The location in the trailer of the board with the latching relay varies from model to model (it's Airstream ... ). On a 2017 Classic 30' it's under the rear dinette seat.

The gotcha with the standard board is that there are two lugs right next to each other. Connect the converter cable to one and you get "normal" operation. Accidentally connect it to the other lug and the converter is out of the picture with the use / store in the "use" mode.

Bob

[ejami5]

Welcome Linda! In my 2017 20' Flying Cloud, I do not hear the 'click' sound when switching from store to use position. However, I do hear the click sound when I switch from use to store position. In either position, the red light stays on when plugged into shore power and when not plugged in as long as the battery has a charge.



Just as a FYI, if/when you have ever have a problem with the battery being over charged (in my case), the culprit was the single stage Parallax converter. I had a multi stage converter (see link in 68 Overlander's post) installed by my local AS dealer. How did I know the battery was overcharged? I smelled a sulphur like odor and initially thought it was a propane tank leak until I noticed a vapor coming from the batteries. The single stage Parallax converter (which you also have) continues to charge (when on shore power) even if the batteries are fully charged. This caused the water in the batteries to boil and emit the vapor. The multi-stage converter solves the constant charging problem.

[Ccomono]

Just as a FYI, if/when you have ever have a problem with the battery being over charged (in my case), the culprit was the single stage Parallax converter. I had a multi stage converter (see link in 68 Overlander's post) installed by my local AS dealer. How did I know the battery was overcharged? I smelled a sulphur like odor and initially thought it was a propane tank leak until I noticed a vapor coming from the batteries. The single stage Parallax converter (which you also have) continues to charge (when on shore power) even if the batteries are fully charged. This caused the water in the batteries to boil and emit the vapor. The multi-stage converter solves the constant charging problem.[/QUOTE]

ejami5, I too am having problems with my new Interstate Batteries. We have a 30' 2018 International Sign, Purchased new in March 2018. On our 5 th. outing, I started smelling the Sulphur odor and it was coming from one of my batteries. This weekend I had to purchase a new battery and two of the cells were pretty low on water (distilled). I am wondering if this is Operator Error or a Single stage Parallax converter that my unit possibly has. I don't think batteries should be going bad this soon and that they should be overcharging. Any thoughts.

[Dawny]

Originally Posted by Linda Latham

I'm a newbie to Air Streams, and have questions for those who may have encountered this or has any insight to problem. My battery store switch will not turn on when shore power is disconnected to trailer. I switch it on and no red light appears at switch, but when I switch back to store position, I hear a click that sounds like a solenoid coming from the converter. When plugged into shore power, the red light on the battery use/store switch is ON. I, also, checked the charge on the battery today, and it is showing 60% charge after the trailer has been plugged into a 15 amp service for pass few days. Should the converter be charging the batteries while plugged into the 15 amps? If so, do I a converter and switch problem or could they be related? Each time I tried using the battery use switch, the batteries were showing 90% charge and with trailer plugged into shore power the batteries show 12.6 V or more. The AS is parked under covered storage so no direct sunlight is getting to the solar panel for charging the batteries. The AS is a 2017 International Serenity and thankfully has a few more months under warranty.
Thanks

How did you determine the newer battery technology was okay to utilize? Are you specifically knowledgeable about batteries in general? Is there a separate charger for the amper hours charging? Thx

[OTRA15]

If you have to replace a battery, you should always replace both at the same time with identical batteries. A properly managed single-stage converter does not damage batteries. You just can't leave the trailer plugged in to shore power indefinitely.

[vintagemotor]

The use/store switch needs at least 11 volts to operate properly, if your batteries are discharged then the latching solenoid or constant duty solenoid will not operate to allow use.
I agree with OTRA15, I have zero problems with my factory converters.

[ejami5]

Ccomono - as you requested, sent you a pm.

[Hermes]

I had a similar problem (Use/Store) switch that would disconnect (would go into Store mode) but not reconnect (would not go into Use mode). The culprit was one of the two 5 amp fuses on either side of solenoid switch which had melted (a 5 amp fuse has a very fine filament).

[68 Overlander]

Originally Posted by OTRA15

If you have to replace a battery, you should always replace both at the same time with identical batteries. A properly managed single-stage converter does not damage batteries. You just can't leave the trailer plugged in to shore power indefinitely.

Good point and agree but it never completely charges either. You really need that voltage and periodic gassing above 14.2 and that's why they go that high. The other benefit is not having to worry how long you've been connected but I know you know that.

[Scott59]

I also have a 2017 International Serenity, and on mine the use/ store switch red light comes on when I turn the switch to Use. It goes off when turned to Store. The tricky thing is that the red light comes on whenever your plugged into shore power, even 15amp service. So what can happen is you have the switch set to Store when you plug into shore power. You then look at the switch and the light is on, but the switch is set to Store, so you can be fooled into thinking the switch is set to Use, but it isn’t.
Your batteries will not charge when plugged into shore power and the switch is set to Store. Believe me, you have to pay close attention to this switch if you want to ensure your batteries are getting charged. I make it a practice to set it to Use a couple times during my first day of a camping trip.

When you are plugged into shore power your battery reading should be around 13.6 or 13.7 volts. If it’s reading 12.6 you have a problem with your converter.

This happened to me last year. I noticed a small fan noise from the converter area that stayed in 24/7, with ambient temps in the 60’s. Called dealer, they said the fan may run continuously, nothing to worry about.
Called Airstream, talked through the fan issue and noticed my battery reading was at 12.0, which is only 50% charged. They recommended I pull batteries and have them tested. I did and they tested good just low charge. Next, dealer replaced the converter, under warranty.

If I was thinking I would have had them replace the converter with a 3 stage unit, which will automatically switch over to trickle charge when the battery is at optimum charge level. Instead they replaced my converter with the same unit that came from Airsyream, which is a single stage and can easily over charge my batteries and reduce their life. I never charge my batteries while in storage for more than 5 days straight. While in storage, I plug the AS to 15amp service for 3-5 days, then unplug for about a week and repeat. My batteries are still working great, but I had to learn to never let them go below 12 volts and never over charge for too long while in storage with very little draw on them.

Live and learn, that’s what we all do!

Good luck.

[Mollysdad]

Don't feel bad.
The use/store switch is confusing because of all the possible scenarios.

[nryn]

Originally Posted by OTRA15

If you have to replace a battery, you should always replace both at the same time with identical batteries. A properly managed single-stage converter does not damage batteries. You just can't leave the trailer plugged in to shore power indefinitely.

Not sure I understand this. What do people who store their trailers for the season or take a year off from traveling do? Disconnect the battery and put it on something like a battery tender?

(I ask because winters can be long in the Midwest....)

[gypsydad]

Originally Posted by nryn

Not sure I understand this. What do people who store their trailers for the season or take a year off from traveling do? Disconnect the battery and put it on something like a battery tender?

(I ask because winters can be long in the Midwest....)

Yes....get a mechanical battery disconnect switch which many of us have, or just disconnect. You can also remove if not going to use all winter, and store in garage or somewhere it won't freeze when not using...cold will ruin your battery over time if not being used.

[gypsydad]

Originally Posted by Ccomono

Just as a FYI, if/when you have ever have a problem with the battery being over charged (in my case), the culprit was the single stage Parallax converter. I had a multi stage converter (see link in 68 Overlander's post) installed by my local AS dealer. How did I know the battery was overcharged? I smelled a sulphur like odor and initially thought it was a propane tank leak until I noticed a vapor coming from the batteries. The single stage Parallax converter (which you also have) continues to charge (when on shore power) even if the batteries are fully charged. This caused the water in the batteries to boil and emit the vapor. The multi-stage converter solves the constant charging problem.

ejami5, I too am having problems with my new Interstate Batteries. We have a 30' 2018 International Sign, Purchased new in March 2018. On our 5 th. outing, I started smelling the Sulphur odor and it was coming from one of my batteries. This weekend I had to purchase a new battery and two of the cells were pretty low on water (distilled). I am wondering if this is Operator Error or a Single stage Parallax converter that my unit possibly has. I don't think batteries should be going bad this soon and that they should be overcharging. Any thoughts.[/QUOTE]

Your 2018 model has a WFCO 3 stage converter/charger I believe which they started including in 2018 models. Doubt that is the problem. More likely your Interstate's are the problem...many of us have had issues in the first few months after taking delivery over the past few years...lots of posts on the Forum. Interstate will replace for free if less then a year old; Airstream dealer also should replace for free. You may want to ask them about credit toward an upgrade either to AGM's, or 6V Golf Cart batteries...AGM's require no maintenance; Golf Cart 6V's will give you more amp hours, but if not AGM's, (wet cells) you will need to check water couple times a year.

On the converter, if yours IS bad, suggest replacing with a 4 stage converter...many of us have done this. It tends the batteries and will not over charge...Boondocker or Progressive Dynamics...check out bestconverter.com....talk with Randy.