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Old 12-14-2004, 11:48 AM   #1
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Bargman 99 & LEDs?

Has anyone yet found or reproduced a true replacement for the tiered Bargman 99 “wedding cake” taillight used on 60’s Airstreams that is actually tiered, looks correct, perhaps down to the Bargman 99 lettering, and that also incorporates bright LED light array such as used on newer school buses? These would look correct on restored AS by day and be much safer at night.

I’ve searched forums and seen Inland RV and AS Dreams reproduction Bargman 99s and replacement LED array lights but not both tiered and LED array.
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Old 12-14-2004, 05:08 PM   #2
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lights

I've seen the ones from Airstream Dreams.com and they look really nice. If you're committed to LED I'd try to adapt an LED brakelight to the Bargman duplicate. There's so many LED lights now on the internet and dealers that you should be able to find one that fits close enough to make it work.
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Old 12-14-2004, 07:50 PM   #3
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Tall Call

Quote:
Originally Posted by walter1
Has anyone yet found or reproduced a true replacement for the tiered Bargman 99 “wedding cake” taillight used on 60’s Airstreams that is actually tiered, looks correct, perhaps down to the Bargman 99 lettering, and that also incorporates bright LED light array such as used on newer school buses? These would look correct on restored AS by day and be much safer at night.

I’ve searched forums and seen Inland RV and AS Dreams reproduction Bargman 99s and replacement LED array lights but not both tiered and LED array.
Walter, I'd have to agree w/ Tin Hut, you will probably have to make them yourself via the HeathKit approach. I replaced the Bargman wedding cake lenses with the schoolbus LEDs. Vitually the same diameter but no step to them, slightly radiused edges however. It seems there was some design theme consciousness when A/S did the 60's units in that the hub caps and stop light lenses tied into one another with the steped designs. Too bad they didn't carry it through to the cabinet hardware and handles. But the split rims are pretty much gone and it seems the Bargman's are next in line as history items. It's been mentioned that the lid off a quart paint can will suffice for the backing plate for the Bargman's. So you can get what you want by drillin' out the paint lid, soldering & wiring in the LEDs and poppin' reproduced lenses from A/S Dreams on. The LEDs come as a sealed unit so I don't think you'd be able to just change out the cover on them. I think we all would like to see a PIC if you did em up proud.
Ed
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Old 12-15-2004, 03:56 PM   #4
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Thanks, perhaps I'll try the AS Dreams repro lenses and think about building LED interior unit.

Ed, where did you acquire the schoolbus type LED lights?

Hmmm...How many LEDs are in the array inside the schoolbus type?
Do they all light at once or are some taillight, others brake light?

If I just run this wire there, solder these and then splice into that...ZAP! POOF!!
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Old 12-15-2004, 05:11 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by walter1
If I just run this wire there, solder these and then splice into that...ZAP! POOF!!
Most leds run on 3 volts or less so you will need a way to drop the voltage.

John
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Old 12-15-2004, 06:55 PM   #6
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Question

Does the socket for the bulb sit upright, or at a 90 degree angle, facing directly out toward the lens?

Terry
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Old 12-15-2004, 09:12 PM   #7
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Talking Led,s

Quote:
Originally Posted by walter1
Has anyone yet found or reproduced a true replacement for the tiered Bargman 99 “wedding cake” taillight used on 60’s Airstreams that is actually tiered, looks correct, perhaps down to the Bargman 99 lettering, and that also incorporates bright LED light array such as used on newer school buses? These would look correct on restored AS by day and be much safer at night.

I’ve searched forums and seen Inland RV and AS Dreams reproduction Bargman 99s and replacement LED array lights but not both tiered and LED array.
A good electronic store sells led with a resistor build in so you can run on 12 volts. I build a night light for our AS . Used 2 green led's . This operates from 12 volts. I beleive they make them in many colors. In the store i went to they had red, green , blue and white but no clear. I want to replace the incadesen bulbs in the tail lites with led's use less power and are much brighter.
Russell
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Old 12-15-2004, 09:35 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 74Argosy24MH
Most leds run on 3 volts or less so you will need a way to drop the voltage.

John
how about 4 wired in series?

that should work on 12 volts.

john
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Old 12-15-2004, 09:57 PM   #9
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school bus tail lights

I'm in the process of changing to school bus lamps on my '73 Argosy. I really like the look though a purist may feel otherwise. I was looking for brighter and safer within my budget which doesn't allow for LED's. My parts source and pictures are shown here at my new web log:

http://stephenfixx.blogspot.com/
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Old 12-16-2004, 10:48 AM   #10
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how about 4 wired in series?

that should work on 12 volts.

john
That works also. Parallel series groups of 4 leds.

John
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Old 12-16-2004, 11:38 AM   #11
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LED source

Quote:
Originally Posted by walter1
Thanks, perhaps I'll try the AS Dreams repro lenses and think about building LED interior unit.

Ed, where did you acquire the schoolbus type LED lights?

Hmmm...How many LEDs are in the array inside the schoolbus type?
Do they all light at once or are some taillight, others brake light?

If I just run this wire there, solder these and then splice into that...ZAP! POOF!!
Walter, here's where I got mine, http://www.led-r-us.com/sttlights.shtml, this link should take you directly to product page. They are 7" diameter with 60 LEDs, do the stop, turn and tail functions and are $40. each.

Here's a PIC of mine installed, with help from the Forum, together with a license plate lamp from AirStream Dreams. Have fun.
Ed
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Old 12-16-2004, 05:10 PM   #12
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those look great ward!

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Old 12-17-2004, 09:50 AM   #13
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Ed, those look great. How much trouble was it to mount them? New holes to cut/drill? Looks as if these new ones are 4 screw where old Bargmans are 3 screws. Any chance of putting those lights together with new reproduction Bargman lenses? That would give the look and function I'm after, but yes cost a bit.
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Old 12-17-2004, 01:01 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sfixx
nice web site, enjoyed cruising thru it.
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Old 12-17-2004, 05:13 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ALANSD
nice web site, enjoyed cruising thru it.
I've got to agree. Very informative site. I went to the etruckparts site mentioned in the text and really like the look of the 7 inch incondesent lights. The lenses have the 4 mounting screws similar to the Autolamp lenses currently on the coach. Plus the price is right. Granted LEDs are brighter and more durable, but to my eye they seem harsh compared to warmer glow of the bulbs.
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Old 12-18-2004, 11:39 AM   #16
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No trouble...

Quote:
Originally Posted by walter1
Ed, those look great. How much trouble was it to mount them? New holes to cut/drill? Looks as if these new ones are 4 screw where old Bargmans are 3 screws. Any chance of putting those lights together with new reproduction Bargman lenses? That would give the look and function I'm after, but yes cost a bit.
Thanks guys for the praise, sometimes simple tasks are the most gratifying. But it wasn't without some tension. See this thread; http://www.airforums.com/forum...ad.php?t=13810
Mounting is a no brainer. I taped the lights in place, marked the holes, drilled and installed with #10 panhead stainless screws. The lights come with a 1/4" rubber foam gasket. There is no mounting plate, mounts directly to the skin w/ the gasket sandwiched in between. The above thread will attest to the wiring, depending on your TV.

The Bargman's I recall are a 2 hole mounting plate to the skin. The 3 holes you see are for the lense to mount to the plate. As I mentioned before, the LED's are a sealed unit and the aspect of cutting it apart to pop a Bargman lens on it, well, I don't think so. Unless the dimensions are perfect and your a master with a drimel. That's why I suggested you would have to build the LED aray on a backing that will accept the Bargman lens cover. These LED stop, turn, tail lamps I used are rated for 100,000 hours, just like other ones offered for twice the price. That's 11 years of 24 hour days. They also feature more individual LED's than some. Some lamps offered feature 48 LEDs, these have 60. They are all made in China and the spec is what is critical, but all manufacturers rate their product at 100,000 hours, so what the heck, I shopped price, function and appearance.

You can keep the Bargman's and brighten them up by using an LED tail light bulb. That would be a $6-12.00 upgrade per side. So the finished image on the trailer would be orginal but I believe the LEDs are a more directional kind of light and a hot spot might be appearant in the center of the lens. They may also be too high of a temperature that could cause melting of the lens when stuck at a RR crossing with your brake activated, as an example. The other forensic question would be the refraction of the Bargman lens as it may relate to the LED light source.

I'm refurbishing and upgrading my rig as opposed to restoring it as it's a boderline wreck. See the sheet metal door the PO used? The systems are toast and what isn't is 40 years old and served it's useful life. Inland's comment about safety while towing was really the influencing factor to change them out. The rear end doesn't feature any additional clearance lights on mine nor do I wish to add any so some simple clean new LEDs were the solution for me.

Ed
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Old 12-18-2004, 12:41 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wardinbb
You can keep the Bargman's and brighten them up by using an LED tail light bulb. That would be a $6-12.00 upgrade per side. So the finished image on the trailer would be orginal but I believe the LEDs are a more directional kind of light and a hot spot might be appearant in the center of the lens. They may also be too high of a temperature that could cause melting of the lens when stuck at a RR crossing with your brake activated, as an example. The other forensic question would be the refraction of the Bargman lens as it may relate to the LED light source.
LEDs are very directional. The incandescent replacement led bulbs are nearly useless in many applications because of this. The led auto lamps have the leds mounted in a circuit board so they all face the lens. They don't put out any appreciable heat, one of the reasons they are so efficient as opposed to the heat producing incadescents.

John
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Old 12-18-2004, 06:56 PM   #18
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So John...

Quote:
Originally Posted by 74Argosy24MH
LEDs are very directional. The incandescent replacement led bulbs are nearly useless in many applications because of this. The led auto lamps have the leds mounted in a circuit board so they all face the lens. They don't put out any appreciable heat, one of the reasons they are so efficient as opposed to the heat producing incadescents.

John
... what you're saying is that LEDs are C L!
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Old 12-19-2004, 06:31 AM   #19
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Way COOL!! Those and the colored versions of the fluorescent tubes that are used on LCDs for light.

John
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Old 12-19-2004, 08:42 PM   #20
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Thanks, it looks like the new LED bus lights Ed found are the way to go. I was going to keep the Bargmans for looks but I'm not really restoring the Safari just trying to keep it as original as possible. However, safety wins. I travel in fog and on windy mountain roads. Harsh, smarsh, I want the rear of this toaster to be seen by clowns traveling way too fast on foggy mountain roads.


I still have too many vivid memories of 6V positive ground tail lights

thanks Ed
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