Affordable Approachable Lithium

[pteck]

Originally Posted by CarterKraft

I think there might be some confirmation bias here though.
1 year warranty.
The GZ 1000 is 100 Ah with a 500 cycle rating.
The inverter is rated at 1500/3000

Without the convenience of the package what makes it so valuable?
Not trying to poo poo it I am really suprised they dont use Lifepo4 chemistry. And oddly the estimated cycle life is in line with Lithium Manganese Oxide (LiMn2O4) — LMO not LMC as is listed in the specs. It's likely a sales marketing decision to de-rate the cycle expectancy to decrease expectations. With a proper BMS and usual temp range I cann't see what was reduce the cycles so much?

Is it confirmation bias?

Warranty is 2 years when you register with GZ. The product has been on the market quite a long time now with GZ being a respected brand. You won't find much failure information out there.

It is the package that absolutely makes this a powerful tool.

I'm using it as a separate bank. As a separate bank, it needs it's own BMS, charger, monitor, etc. Which it conveniently has built in.

There's many options out there. Does it make some trades to other options? Perhaps. Yet again, to get the capability this gives you, with the extended capacity over house batteries and the ability to power high draw devices, there's very few options that come remotely close to the value proposition here.

[gypsydad]

Originally Posted by pteck

That's taking a very negative and single sided worse case scenario perspective on the issue.

Reality is not that. Not even close.

My GZ 1000 was $800. I expect easily over 2000 cycles from this with the way I use my trailer - which is not even close to full cycling in a given day. With 300Ah on tap combined with house battery and the GZ, I only use about 10-20% of the capacity on the GZ on any given day. My GZ will be 10 years old and technology will be well superseded by the time I replace it.

Let me frame this for you more:
$2k invested for ~300Ah battery inclusive of 400W solar. Able to do just about what many full lithium $10k++ systems can do (including more interesting uses). Nothing is going to touch the value you can get with this type of setup.

Tronadora answered it earlier in the thread too - http://www.airforums.com/forums/f37/...ml#post2265868

Couple questions on the 1000 Yeti; where did you find it for <$1000? (looking on line and having trouble finding that price.) Also, I see the 1400 model for around $1400...size similar to 1000; what are your thoughts on the 1000 vs the 1400?

[GOUSC]

Originally Posted by The Naker

The GZ reads around .9 amps to 1.2 amps with everything at rest. I can't read the power draw when I turn on the microwave as it just resets without registering on the display.

The microwave is rated at 1500 watts input power requirement so should work. When I run it plugged into shore power I tried it on lower power settings and it seems like it still uses full power but just for a shorter interval than the time I set.

This is beyond my knowledge but could grounding be an issue? The manual states many times that the outlet must be plugged into an outlet that has a proper grounding wire. Obviously the Yeti doesn't have this.

FYI - When I checked my microwave using the GZ1000 before, I only did it for 30 seconds to heat some water and checked nothing else. Then, I read Pteck said it has surge power of 3000W for 30 seconds and then drops to 1500W. To make sure my GZ1000 will function with my microwave and give you a baseline for your microwave I ran the microwave for 1.5 minutes to heat a cup of water. Converter off and nothing else on. The GZ pulled 1150-60W and put out 11.6V. Water was heated and no issues.

Hope you get your issue figured out.

[waninae39]

a microwave plugged into a std 115V 15A socket CANT pull 3000w for 30 secs. the MAX pull from a std outlet is 1800 watts and even then some breakers may start to flip off

that is why all uwaves are rated for 1500w or less.
take a look at hairdryers, toasters, etc. all are 1500w or less

my victron converter/inverter can supply 3000w . but not that to any std Ac outlet.

when our BB Lion battery is used a lot, i can it giving over 70A of current to the battery until it hist the curve and asks for less

[The Naker]

Originally Posted by GOUSC

FYI - When I checked my microwave using the GZ1000 before, I only did it for 30 seconds to heat some water and checked nothing else. Then, I read Pteck said it has surge power of 3000W for 30 seconds and then drops to 1500W. To make sure my GZ1000 will function with my microwave and give you a baseline for your microwave I ran the microwave for 1.5 minutes to heat a cup of water. Converter off and nothing else on. The GZ pulled 1150-60W and put out 11.6V. Water was heated and no issues.



Hope you get your issue figured out.

Thanks. When I'm home next week I'm going to try running my 15amp circular saw. I'll see if it's a problem with the GZ inverter. I doubt it is the inverter but I'll rule it out next.

[pteck]

Originally Posted by gypsydad

Couple questions on the 1000 Yeti; where did you find it for <$1000? (looking on line and having trouble finding that price.) Also, I see the 1400 model for around $1400...size similar to 1000; what are your thoughts on the 1000 vs the 1400?

I personally got mine at Costco on sale. The sales seem to come a couple times a year. And of course Costco adds value in terms of warranty/guarantees.

I've also seen this on sale at REI for 20% and 25% off on occasion. Which also has great guarantees.

You could also take a look at Goal Zero's website as they frequently have direct sales at discounted prices. Or lots of opportunity to buy open box items.

The GZ 1400 model has some interesting upgrades over the 1000 model:
1) ~25% more capacity.
2) USB-C PD ports to directly power the new generation of higher power cell phones, tablets, and laptops - to 100W. One could use a cigarette lighter adapter on the 1000 model to almost get the same functionality.
3) Bluetooth and cloud based control and monitoring - one can turn on the inverter for example remotely from a smart phone

For me, it wasn't worth the ~40% greater street price as there were no sales for the 1400 when I procured mine.

[pteck]

Originally Posted by waninae39

a microwave plugged into a std 115V 15A socket CANT pull 3000w for 30 secs. the MAX pull from a std outlet is 1800 watts and even then some breakers may start to flip off

that is why all uwaves are rated for 1500w or less.
take a look at hairdryers, toasters, etc. all are 1500w or less

You hit the nail on the head. It would be a rare 120V device that the GZ could not support on its inverter.

There's many videos of the GZ inverter performing right up to it's 3000W rating for the full 30 seconds. The inverter will then shut down with a red light on the "on" switch.

I've confirmed with my own tests, running two residential hair dryers full bore close to it's max output. And even my RV A/C. To the full 30 seconds. It will run full to 1500W for as long as there is capacity. The inverter indeed will do what it's spec'd to do.

I've not seen it shutdown in the manner The Naker describes hence I believe there may be something else going on.

[gypsydad]

Originally Posted by pteck

I personally got mine at Costco on sale. The sales seem to come a couple times a year. And of course Costco adds value in terms of warranty/guarantees.

I've also seen this on sale at REI for 20% and 25% off on occasion. Which also has great guarantees.

You could also take a look at Goal Zero's website as they frequently have direct sales at discounted prices. Or lots of opportunity to buy open box items.

The GZ 1400 model has some interesting upgrades over the 1000 model:
1) ~25% more capacity.
2) USB-C PD ports to directly power the new generation of higher power cell phones, tablets, and laptops - to 100W. One could use a cigarette lighter adapter on the 1000 model to almost get the same functionality.
3) Bluetooth and cloud based control and monitoring - one can turn on the inverter for example remotely from a smart phone

For me, it wasn't worth the ~40% greater street price as there were no sales for the 1400 when I procured mine.

I s aw the GZ at Costco site, but included the solar package, I already have, so can't just get the GZ Yeti right now. The GZ site has the 1400 on sale now 20% off, but that takes it down to a few more bucks then the Amazon standard price...REI not as good price. I will continue to monitor.

[Dave-n-Janet]

Yes, socket is rated 10amps and tied leads on socket directly to 12v bus, believe leads were #14. The 12v GZ charger has some numbers on it: maybe model 98079-10. Has the 5 and 10amp slide selector switch. Yes, it is the 12v Car Charging Cable for $39.95 and was on backorder for some time. GZ1000 is listed as one of the compatible power units. With my solar, the 5 amp setting saw input of 56-60 watts. The 10amp setting was 118-121 watts, so seemed to be within spec.

[OTRA15]

Thanks for those additional details, in reply to, I assume, my Post #97, which in turn commented on your previous Post #96, which said in part:

Originally Posted by Dave-n-Janet

. . .
. . . the charger got very hot. Almost too hot to handle.
. . .

That kind of hot temperature is not normal, in my personal opinion, and I was attempting to find out the cause. Were the charger and cord in very hot ambient air temps, maybe?

Maybe the charger is defective?

Anyway, above my pay grade to figure it out, I just would not use a charger that got "almost too hot to handle" . . . again IMO.

Good luck,

Peter

[SandKSmith]

Hello all,
I’ve been watching this thread for some time and liked Pteck’s idea a lot. Just about everywhere we’ve traveled to in Arizona has been dry camping. There are times you miss plugging something in to the wall outlet. Easy 120v power for my laptop, coffee grinder, microwave, TV, etc. without lots of modifications, large cables, inverter, and one or two Battle Born batteries was very appealing . All that is great stuff, but a bit much for our needs, and it’s time I don’t have for modifications.

I installed the transfer switch several weeks ago in preparation for getting the Yeti 1000. The Yeti 1400 being 20% off this week was enough to push me over the edge.

I put it in today. The 1400 is a bit taller than the 1000 so it wouldn’t fit under the fridge. I put in the compartment next to the converter under the bed, and since the transfer switch is there too, the connection went pretty quick. At the same time, I haven’t wired up the charge circuit yet. That will go in with the rooftop solar. I need to build a sliding shelf for it too so it is a bit easier to put in place and take out if needed/wanted. The disadvantage of that location is it will add a few pounds to the already heavy hitch weight of our Safari FB.

The 1400 is pretty impressive. 44lb, so I can lift it easily. The app lets you connect to it directly or via another Wi-Fi network. Firmware updates can be downloaded via Wi-Fi when needed.

I haven’t totally sorted out the app yet- it seems I have to disconnect from the Wi-Fi I’m on and reconnect to the yeti. While inconvenient while I’m at home or work, out traveling it shouldn’t be an issue. I won’t be connected to Wi-Fi, so I’m hoping it just picks it up like any other Wi-Fi signal the phone sees. The app provides info on charge level, power out, voltage, power going in and battery voltage.

I wired it to the shore power side of the transfer switch so the EMS puts the generator power on after 30 seconds to give the generator time to settle out. I don’t see much use for the generator other than air conditioning- and we haven’t needed that-yet.... I’ll want to remember to put the fridge on gas instead of auto so it doesn’t run down the yeti. Since we don’t have the Airstream Microwave, our converter power is wired to that circuit breaker (regardless of what the sticker says) so shutting off 120V Yeti power to the converter is as easy as flipping that breaker off.

So far, i’m pleased. The bit of testing I’ve done indicates that it will do what I want it to do easily.
Steve

[Tronadora]

Originally Posted by OTRA15

Thanks for those additional details, in reply to, I assume, my Post #97, which in turn commented on your previous Post #96, which said in part:



That kind of hot temperature is not normal, in my personal opinion, and I was attempting to find out the cause. Were the charger and cord in very hot ambient air temps, maybe?

Maybe the charger is defective?

Anyway, above my pay grade to figure it out, I just would not use a charger that got "almost too hot to handle" . . . again IMO.

Good luck,

Peter

Peter,
GZ tech support had told me how the chargers would get hot and not to bundle them against each other. We are stuck with using their chargers.

I use three of them passing through one of their combiner cables, plus a power cable going to a fourth charger they have built in. I have the GZ sitting on the floor of my Interstate motorhome, at the rear end of the aisle under the sofa (which sits in the flat down position) with the three chargers tucked invisibly on the floor beside it.

While vacuuming the other day in that area and noticed under the pile of chargers the dark walnut flooring was turning BLACK ! That's how hot these things get and I made the mistake of letting them lay haphazardly with one on top of another and up against each other. I am now conjuring up a method of isolating those charger bricks from each other and not let them lie directly on the flooring. Pictures will be posted when I get a chance.

[Tomzstream]

Yea, I saw a post in a YETI forum that showed four chargers cable tied together... BAD IDEA. I tried it and they got extremely hot. I now spread them out and lay them on the narrow side to give them room to breath.

I have two Yeti 3000's that are on hurricane standby duty. One for my deep freeze and communications infrastructure, and the other the fridge. I use two chargers per each. More than sufficient to keep them topped off while the power is on. I keep a Yeti 1000 in my garage to power my garage door opener, and Solar hot water heat exchanger pumps. I mostly keep it topped off using two grape solar 100W panels). But I have another two chargers should I need them. I bought the optional MPPT controller for it so I have plenty of input ports.

[OTRA15]

Thanks for both replies.

Your caution is well-advised IMO.

Peter

[cru-in]

just installed:

1) Two Renogy 100AH LiFePo4 batteries
2) Renogy LifePo4 compatible solar charge controller
3) RenogyLiFePo4 compatible DC to DC 20 Amp Charger for TV's Alt to charge AS's LiFePo4 batteries
4) Progressive Dynamics 60 amp Lithium compatible converter

Total cost about $2K

Already had 250 Watts of solar on the roof.

[pteck]

Originally Posted by cru-in

just installed:

1) Two Renogy 100AH LiFePo4 batteries
2) Renogy LifePo4 compatible solar charge controller
3) RenogyLiFePo4 compatible DC to DC 20 Amp Charger for TV's Alt to charge AS's LiFePo4 batteries
4) Progressive Dynamics 60 amp Lithium compatible converter

Total cost about $2K

Already had 250 Watts of solar on the roof.

Perhaps you got lost and posted in the wrong thread? I'd encourage you to start your own thread if you want to share, as it looks like you have a nice system there. Each setup has their own advantages/disadvantages and discussion points. We don't want this section of the forums to turn out like the hitch or tow vehicle sub-forums.

[OTRA15]

Originally Posted by pteck

. . .
We don't want this section of the forums to turn out like the hitch or tow vehicle sub-forums.

Concur.

This thread has a nice focus on affordable and simple lithium solutions that don't require a major expense and effort IMO. Well done.

As the original post starts off . . . :

Originally Posted by pteck

We all have read about lithium batteries and how it's the newest game in town. Incredible packaging, weight, charge and discharge qualities. All wondrous things. At a price with significant install complexities.

What if I told you a large capacity battery system with lithium qualities could be affordable and approachable? With some unique benefits.

The device is not new. The integration strategy and approach is what's new here.

Enter Goal Zero Yeti portable battery stations.
. . .

[click on orange arrow in quote to go directly to the first post, and read the whole thing.]

Peter

[turk123]

I waited four months for this to come off backorder. Label says it all. Yeti 1000 charged in 4 hours using the MTTP optional controller. Produces 274 watts and does get hot!

This is the equivalent of having four of the AC standard chargers.

[Tomzstream]

yea, I looked at this and thought it had to get hot. Basically, a step down transformer. I had already bought two additional chargers for my Yeti 3000, and the 4 socket 8mm to APP adapter. I also bought a 4 plug AC extension cord (one male to four female individual heavy duty rubber 3 prong plugs) That allows me to spread the chargers out. It's a bit wonky to handle, but safety first. I have mentioned before, that the small individual chargers resemble the old IBM Thinkpad AC adapters, and there were several recalls over the years on those.

[Tronadora]

As promised, here is a photo showing what happened after using three Goal Zero chargers in a pile on the floor of my Interstate. You can see the combiner cable they all plugged into at the bottom of the photo.

We've been using the Goal Zero Yeti 3000 in the Interstate since January 2018 and it has been very useful. It gives us flexibility to be off grid and still run all appliances except A/C. We are full time in this motorhome and the chargers had been sitting there out of sight but I never bothered to look at the floor underneath til now. I maybe used the chargers once per week on average for several hours each time... never in more than 80-85 degrees ambient temperature. Fortunately, this area is somewhat hidden.


Next: I'm working on a simple way to hold these on their edges with some air gap between them.