Adding Circuits AC stranded or solid

[DaveFL]

[QUOTE=D Bishop;1741674]

Originally Posted by Tony S

The other felt solid was better mostly because AC devices are looking for solid wire.

You should certainly use stranded wire in a Mobile installation. Solid tends to become brittle in situations where vibration is possible The voltage cares not solid or stranded but vibration must be considered in a Trailer.

You have gotten the best answers by experts, my experience is that anything in a RV will shake and if it shakes it will loosen. A loose connection will work sometimes but while working will cause heat. I have found burned connectors, including fuse holders where a connected stranded wire became loose and arced. Do not use any household connectors that work great in a stationary situation. Crimp fittings work better in a vibrating environment. Just a little of my experience of 50 yrs doing it without the expertise found on this site.

[Jammer]

Originally Posted by KrisE MN

I found chewed wires today so doing the wiring too. I'm used to housing wiring where there's a positive, negative and ground. The wire I'm seeing is just one grouping in strands under a sheath. I've been reading online and watching youtube, but can't find the answer so I'm here... sorry. I'll look further but was hoping someone could help me ... am I looking for a one negative another stranded/positive with a ground inside a sheath like I do for housing romex wiring?

Hello Kris

Grand Rapids is near my old stomping ground (Deer River/Bowstring Lake). I live south of the metro now but still get up that way from time to time.

Anyway as to your question I don't understand whether you're working on 12V DC wiring or 120v AC wiring on your trailer. The answers are different depending on which you're trying to do.

[KrisE MN]

doing alot of reading. I'm trying to get a parts list. Being in the boonies its best to do that I have a 20' gt. So figuring at least 200' of 12/2 marine awg and another 200' 10/2. Home depot has shallow boxes and grommets. I already have the magnum 2012. Figuring out panel and breakers hopefully soon. I'm working 12 hr shifts so trying my best on this phone lol

is brand name important in wiring? There's a guy on eBay selling wire but I think it generic. I wrote down anchor, west marine from a post. Too many options to list in ac/dc combined panels. I'm going solar so thats got to be considered in this while panels and floor are out.

[KrisE MN]

Jammer come boon on my lake. Bring your crimper though. Tried that w Lew but he's not falling for it ��

[lewster]

Originally Posted by KrisE MN

doing alot of reading. I'm trying to get a parts list. Being in the boonies its best to do that I have a 20' gt. So figuring at least 200' of 12/2 marine awg and another 200' 10/2. Home depot has shallow boxes and grommets. I already have the magnum 2012. Figuring out panel and breakers hopefully soon. I'm working 12 hr shifts so trying my best on this phone lol

is brand name important in wiring? There's a guy on eBay selling wire but I think it generic. I wrote down anchor, west marine from a post. Too many options to list in ac/dc combined panels. I'm going solar so thats got to be considered in this while panels and floor are out.

For these quantities, try Waytek Wire. In the marine industry, if you order 12/2 you will get 2 conductors in the outer sheath, not 3! If you want wire for 120VAC, you need 12/3 and 10/3………….. 12/2 is for DC.

[KrisE MN]

product of typing on a phone. Sorry lewster

[KrisE MN]

Sitting in my shopping cart:
100': 12/2 AWG Duplex Tinned Marine Wire Starting at: $0.64
Type III 65/.0100 Stranding. Nominal OD .230 x .381 inch.

I have a choice of 100 or 250' so thought I'd start out with 100' 12/2

100': 10/3 AWG Triplex Tinned Marine Wire
Type III 105/.0100 Stranding. BLACK/GREEN/WHITE Nominal OD .270 x .620 inch.

I'm confused on terminals. Here's the link to the ones I was thinking of ordering, the sizes are confusing me. :

https://tinnedmarinewire.com/wire/in...afb979285f2a3a

https://tinnedmarinewire.com/wire/in...516ce4620e7fa6


These look nice for tiebacks: https://tinnedmarinewire.com/wire/in...cadc6e9fa15532

And shrink wrap as well to take pressure off crimped end. At least that's what I watched on youtube:
https://tinnedmarinewire.com/wire/in...8bb6b0eafcddd6

It's a start. I have the inverter, just need to find a good box to wire to, but that's going to be done by a pro along with inverter and setting up for future solar. Just wanted to at least replace the work/mouse eaten wiring. I have many times in the past, just new to shrink wrap and crimping. I'll have a pro check my work of course.

[lewster]

Looks like the Raytech or Molex heat shrink crimps that I use on a regular basis, except that mine snap onto the screw (as required by ABYC). The heat shrink is in place for corrosion, not strain relief. Any crimp (up to 10AWG) should withstand a 6 lb. pull test according to marine standards, so give the fitting a good tug BEFORE you apply the heat.

Lookin' good!

[Brightonsub]

One very important item that most people do not realize when choosing receptacles having those push-in lazy-*** holes on the back, or the screw lugs on the side...

Just how much current are you willing to draw across an area the size of a .5mm pencil lead and not worry about heat or heat related failure?

I don't care if you use 4ga solid into a 4ga solid rated hole ... you still have an EXTREMELY small PATH for all that current you are drawing.

Picture this- two 3/4" copper pipes held together in your hand parallel with each other as compared to those same two pieces of pipe perpendicular to each other. Which of the two versions do you want to draw 50 amps of current power from one pipe to the other?... and it happens at 10 or 15 amps the very same way.

Screw terminals have all the surface area of the conductor you can muster against that screw. NOW you can draw all the current you mains will allow before the breaker trips.

I bring this up fact as we recently almost had a fire at our church due to those God forsaking push-in receptacles.

[KrisE MN]

Silly question, but I just have to ask. I see round ring connectors with no fork on the end. Is there a reason these aren't used?

[youngpeck]

This is what I'm using in my re-wire:

http://www.alliedmoulded.com/catalog...vices/p-122sc/

. . . with triplex stranded wire, contractor grade outlets, and crimped ring terminals. (Those "push-in-the-back rv" receptacles are for shallow walls, I presume.) Note the volume. I can pigtail the connections in these. They will have to be screwed into the wall framing, but that's not hard with the inner skins off.

[Jim & Susan]

Originally Posted by KrisE MN

Silly question, but I just have to ask. I see round ring connectors with no fork on the end. Is there a reason these aren't used?

Where I work, we use those ring connectors on the safety ground on DC powered equipment. Most things there are DC powered and DC powered racks and gear normally have a "safety" ground tied back thru the building ground to a "true" ground ring buried outside the building. DC is a much more stable power source for computer equipment, but it has other things to contend with, like the grounding requirements....and a lot o'other stuff.

We only use the ring terminals for the ground. Not for the power connections to the power supplies on the equipment.

Disclaimer: this is company policy for DC powered stuff, I'm not an engineer and have no idea what the electrical code says about this, for AC or DC powered stuff.

Jim

[KrisE MN]

Originally Posted by Gnorts

Solder isn't a great idea either. By definition, rosin core solder used in electrical work is an alloy, and alloys contain dissimilar metals which can present problems in an environment where condensation is an issue - in the bilge of a boat, or between the inner & outer skins of an Airstream. Condensation can accelerate corrosion in soldered joints. ABYC, the boating standard, limits use of soldered connections. If used, they must be encapsulated in adhesive heat shrink. Also, ABYC strictly prohibits the use of wire nuts, in addition to solid core wire. Wire nuts are really designed for solid core wire, even if they work reasonably well on stranded wire. The threaded insert in most wire nuts is steel, which is harder than copper and will bite into the wire, keeping the wire nut secure. But, again, in a moist environment, corrosion will be accelerated between the two dissimilar metals. Plus, if a wire nut is oriented so its open end is pointing up, any condensation that runs down the wires will end up inside the wire nut.

So, stranded wire is the recommended type in our applications. Both AC and DC. RV builders use romex because it's cheap, and it's quick to assemble the terminations at outlets and breakers that are designed to simply push a solid wire into a hole. Stranded wire shouldn't be tinned and shoved into the hole. All receptacles normally also have screw terminals. The wire should be terminated in a ring lug (preferable to a spade lug; if a screw comes loose, a spade lug can fall out of the connector) that's properly crimped on the wire.

btw, don't use a cheesy cheap-o crimper. Get a good one that will make solid crimps and last more than a week. Something like this:



And, if you really want to split hairs, buy your tinned wire and tinned crimp connectors from the same vendor - that way, the final connection will contain no dissimilar metals at all. Ancor is a good brand, available at most marine supply stores like West Marine, Defender, etc.

This info is brought to you by a former marine electric business owner, and retired marine surveyor certified in ABYC standards...

Does it matter if we use standard distribution panels and outlets when using tinned copper wire? I was looking at some marine grade panels and they're not that expensive. http://www.hodgesmarine.com/BLUE-SEA...7.htm?CartID=1

[lewster]

Originally Posted by KrisE MN

Does it matter if we use standard distribution panels and outlets when using tinned copper wire? I was looking at some marine grade panels and they're not that expensive. http://www.hodgesmarine.com/BLUE-SEA...7.htm?CartID=1

Blue Sea Systems makes some great equipment! You can even have your panel custom designed to your exact specifications using their Panel Wizard program: http://panelwizard.bluesea.com

I have designed and installed several of their custom panels for clients as a member of their Certified Tech Installer program. You can't go wrong with their products!

[KrisE MN]

That must be fun Lew. Are there any examples of panels you've designed on a site? I was just wondering if this could incorporate solar control and how. I'm still trying to figure out layout of batteries, inverter/converter and panels. I started playing with the panel wizard.. I love gadgets!

[lewster]

Here's one: DC on left (red) and AC on right (white). Has a source selector switch for shore power/generator or inverter, dual voltage/amperage meters and a bunch of other goodies! It was NOT cheap!!!

[KrisE MN]

Looks close to 2K. arghhhhhhhhhhhhhh

[lewster]

Originally Posted by KrisE MN

Looks close to 2K. arghhhhhhhhhhhhhh

Actually, that panel was $3600!!

[KrisE MN]

I think I found a panel within my budget, custom AC/DC panel with Xantrex battery monitor.

I'm ordering my wiring from them now, very well priced for name brand wiring.

Once I'm all wired up, I'll know what I need in the panel for a quote.

They use Blue Sea terminals as well as build to marine standards for stranded wiring.

I'm guessing someone here has heard of them www.acdcmarineinc.com. Any opinions? I really like the look of these aluminum panels. Ramsey was very helpful and friendly when I called to ask a few questions about the panels he has for sale currently.

Oh and BTW, I don't know how often solar panels go on sale but Amazon has a sale on Renology today. http://www.amazon.com/Renogy-Monocry...5905733&sr=8-2

I'm not ready for that step yet, soon hopefully. Renology just came out with an upgrade to their panels so I suspect these will be phased out maybe?

[KrisE MN]

OK so I got somewhere, at least I spent some money LOL
Blue Sea 8084 with 6 ac and 15 dc, 3 meters and toggle battery switch
https://www.bluesea.com/products/808...B_15_Positions
A bunch of wiring and stuff, tinned copper stranded with heat shrink spades
Irwin Industrial Tools 2078300 8-Inch Self-Adjusting Wire Stripper
Titan 11477 Ratcheting Wire Terminal Crimper

Since I'm not doing 2 ACs, I'm going to stick with 30 amp unless someone here thinks I'm making a mistake

Oh and I purchased some great LED down lights, working on outlets, going to look at these: Leviton Slim Design SmartLockPro GFCI Outlet.