Add a second battery?

[dmac]

My 2003 Safari 25 came with only one battery. It is in a boat-type plastic battery box on a metal tray behind the LP bottles. It has a clunky metal clamp/latch setup to keep it in place. I am interested in adding a second battery... but it looks like some major fabrication needs to be done to accomplish this. Has anyone else done this on this style trailer and battery setup? Photos? Cost?

[Lumatic]

There are prefab battery cases out there. The main consideration for flooded batteries is venting.

[dljosephson]

You can add more batteries wherever in the trailer you can fit them. We have two Trojan T105 (6 volt, 220 amp-hour) in a marine battery box under the gaucho in our 1971 Tradewind 25. There is a vinyl hose that's intended to vent the battery area to the outside but in many cases the metal attachments are corroded.

[Mexray]

Venting is not a real problem when the battery box (s) are mounted outside, behind the propane bottles... assuming there are vent holes or passages in the box, cover, etc...

Search the Net for a box to hold the two batteries you want to use...

Of real concern, however, is to secure the batteries inside the box so that they don't move around when you're on the road - any dirt or small stones that find there way inside the battery box can act like sandpaper and wear away at the battery cases, most notably the corners, and could wear a hole, causing the electrolyte to leak...I've seen it happen several times...

Those plastic battery boxes have some relieved areas in the bottom to collect the dirt that finds it's way inside - however, the batteries still move around inside those boxes...

If the battery box you select doesn't have secure battery hold downs inside the box, you could spray some of that foam in a can, around the battery to keep it from moving - a solution I've used successfully - it's easy to peal away at replacement time...

I have two battery compartments in the front of our AS, but I added a third battery, installed in an alum battery box, behind the propane tanks...I got mine from Quick Cable Corp...and it HAS and internal hold down to keep the battery from moving around!

[samb]

I used my original undersized single battery box as a "recipe" and built my own to hold two group 24 12 volt batteries.
Local sign shops have the aluminum and brakes to fabricate one or you could build your own if you are handy at such things.
Mine is mounted behind the propane tanks in the same position as the original. It was a tight fit, but I had a good 1/4 inch to spare. Makes the wiring easy to access and figure out.
I think you can see more photos of mine if you click on the my "images" under my profile.
Sam

[4slice]

Hi,

Question...what gauge steel to use?

This is a timely thread, as I'm planning to install four 6v batteries behind the lp tanks. I will have an alum box custom built to hold the four end-to-end across the width of the a-frame. The battery box and lp tanks will have to sit on a custom built steel rack that will lift the box about six inches to clear the Reese chain lift mechanism, and the tanks will need to move forward 2 inches to give enough room for the battery box, and up by about 3/4 inch to clear the Reese u-bolts.

I can weld the rack myself, but I'm wondering what gauge steel I should use? I was thinking 1" by 2" rectangular tube at .083 (14 gauge), but I'm looking for input from anyone who has experience with fabricating mild steel. It's that old trade-off between strength and weight!

Also, how much weight is too much on the a-frame of a seventies unit?

Thanks,
Gary
"4 slice"
'77 31'

[Mexray]

A few comments about adding (4) 6volt batt's on the tongue...

You will be adding 250 lbs for the batteries alone, without your new steel rack...That's a big weight gain up front there! You'll most likely need heavier bars for your WD hitch - also, can you TV stand that weight gain on the hitch?

Also, if you're building a rack to mount the batteries 'end-to-end' as you mentioned, thats over 40 inches wide (they are 7" x 10" -footprint)...perhaps you meant side-by-side which would be 28" for the batteries, plus the battery box...

Also, don't forget that 'sparking' batteries and propane don't mix - BOOM...make sure your new battery box is able to secure the batteries properly - any movement of the batteries could wear a hole in their plastic case, causing fluid loss - lot's of dirt and grit WILL find it's way into a battery box mounted on the tongue, and if there is movement of the batteries, the grit will act like a rasp file and wear a hole - the corners are the usual starting point...

Overall, I don't think all that additional weight is a very good idea, up front - I can't think of any manufacturer that mounts that much battery weight on the tongue -

[4slice]

Thanks for the reply, Mexray. My TV is an F250 with a Class IV hitch set-up. I'm not worried about tongue weight for the TV, as the back of the truck hardly moves when I lower the tongue right now.

You're right about the width; I was planning for the battery box to be about 42 inches, and I would mechanically fix the batteries to prevent movement. I can't move any batteries lower in the a-frame because the electric/hydraulic brake system is already in a steel box there.

My real concern is whether the a-frame section could take that kind of added weight--possibly 300lbs total if one includes the steel rack and alum battery box. Would it put too much strain on the welds between the a-frame and the main frame.... I wouldn't want to become "detached" on the highway!

[Mexray]

Can't help you with any meaningful comments on that much additional weight up front like that - I just haven't seen or heard of the mounting of 4-6v's up there on an AS...

I seen where generators have been mounted behind the propane tanks, in an enclosure, but the weight is not as much as the 4/6volt batteries...

Also, it occurs to me, that in reality, you'll have to 'deduct' the weight of your existing batteries from the total weight of your new anticipated layout - to get the 'real' amount of weight gained - so it might not be all that significant, after all...just a thought...

[4slice]

Mexray, I forgot to deduct the original battery when I figured on 300 lbs extra tongue weight.

My plan would only be one battery more than your setup, plus a wider box and the steel rack. Now that I look at it from that perspective, I can't see an issue. Now, if a metal-worker could suggest the optimal gauge steel to use for the rack....

I may have to reconsider this whole idea, depending on how much the custom aluminum box will cost--I understand that fabricating shops and custom welding are "spendy". I would love to buy the aluminum wire feed gun, gas cylinder, etc. for my welder and diy, but I would also like to get this project done this year! My buddies at work often accuse me of wanting to mine the metal and smelting it myself (I confess that I don't like paying for anything that I could possibly do!).

Thanks for your input, Mexray. It's good to bounce these ideas off someone.

[mello mike]

4Slice, I'm interested to see pics of your completed project. Do you have spare tire bracket mounted in the front? If you do, how did you get around that?

[rangebowdrie]

Steel is very heavy, and aluminum fabrication is spendy, if you want a clean looking box, done with heliarc welding. Both materials are not compatable with batt acid, or gases. A custom molded fiberglass box, using epoxy resin, can be built by yourself, at reasonable expence, and will never suffer any corrosion problems. Just a thought.

[rseagle]

Here's what I did.

[4slice]

Your set-up looks great, rseagle! Very professional. I've purchased the steel for the battery rack, but before I start cutting and welding, I have to go to a local propane shop to see about re-routing the lines up front as they will be in the way. I got distracted from this project as I just finished welding steel corner brackets for a scaffolding set-up to go over the roof of the trailer. The paint dried overnight, so now I have to try setting it up. My order from Vintage Trailer Supply is waiting at the post office as I speak (it's a good day!!!).

I'll post pics of the battery set-up once I get started.

[mello mike]

Outstanding job, rseagle. Looks terrific!!!

[purman]

I kinda did the same thing a rseagle, But what I want to do is make a cover the same shape as the AS. that would be pretty cool.

You can see my box here near the end of the thread..

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f44/...r-44644-6.html

[4slice]

I had a Eureka moment this evening!! I moved the sofa forward and crawled in behind (glad no one was around to see that). After removing the large alum cover that was about a foot tall, a foot wide and nearly the width of the trailer, I found a smaller second alum cover which hid the Univolt. Next to it was the plastic battery box (accessible from the outside). What was so surprising, though, (besides the layers of dirt) was the amount of unused space back there--with the Univolt removed, there would be room for about eight batteries!!

No need to build a battery box and rack system for the A-frame. I'll build a light-weight plywood box with a removable, but well-sealed lid for four 6 volt batteries. The current plastic box will be cut out, but leaving enough plastic there to act as a flange into the side of the new box (to maintain ventilation). The plastic flange will be sealed to the plywood box with caulking. I noticed, too, that the Univolt was sitting over a series of vent holes that go through the floor. Water has come through and stained the plywood floor--so, I'll incorporate holes in the bottom of the new box that are directly over the existing holes, sealing the joint to the trailer interior. No more water or dust inside from that source, and plenty of ventilation for the batteries!

The new converter can be screwed to the side of the box, and it will have sufficient cooling from the interior air.

This is great, as I don't have to muck about with the propane tanks, nor add a lot of unnecessary weight. I'll post pics as I begin the project. Now...what do to with all that steel I bought??

[4slice]

Well, I got the new battery box built and installed (slight delay to the start of a trip). I built the box out of 1/2 inch ply (crappy stuff these days-plywood CAN take on a compound curve on a warm day) The box was sized for four 6 volt golf car batteries (225 ah), and there wasn't a 1/16 inch to spare in terms of height. I used the existing floor vent and the old battery box opening for gas ventilation. The floor vent was cleaned up, painted and weatherstripped. The old battery box walls were cut so that they would stick into the side of the new box as a flange--to be sealed with caulking. I installed a battery selector switch and the pos. lead runs from it to a double terminal block--this will allow hook-up of a large inverter. Future solar panels to be connected to the fuse panel, as is the new Intellicharger. I used 1g welding cable for the batteries to the terminal block, and 4g cable from the charger to the fuse panel, and from the fuse panel to the batteries--shouldn't have any line losses with those sizes!! I'll try to post photos here.

[henw]

I've placed 240 lbs of batteries up front now. 440ah.
One in the battery box. Three positioned under the front couch. They're sealed AGM so I'm not worried about leaks. Theoretically it's discussed as possible, but, I've not seen one report of someone having an actual issue with a carefully placed in-coach battery.
In fact, we have them all over our office as part of computer backup systems.
Goal is to be able to watch limitless HDTV, and, run the basics without having to be too stingy between charges.
Tom

[rangebowdrie]

4Slice, thats a nice looking set-up. The Blue Sea switch is a good touch.,,, clean, well suported wiring.