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06-27-2020, 12:20 PM
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#1
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Overkill Specialist
Commercial Member
2020 30’ Globetrotter
2014 23' International
Dadeville
, Alabama
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 4,516
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1000 Watts of Solar!
We will soon be installing our new Zamp Obsidian high voltage 100W panels on the roof of our 30’ Globetrotter. We will be installing 1Kw! Anyone else installed that much solar on the roof of an Airstream and if so what solar controller did you use. I’m looking at a couple of different options but just curious as to what others have done.
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06-27-2020, 05:05 PM
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#2
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Overkill Specialist
Commercial Member
2020 30’ Globetrotter
2014 23' International
Dadeville
, Alabama
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 4,516
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Looking at the Victron 150/70 VE. We will install them series/parallel so should run around 50volts @ 23Amps on the input side. Output should be 14.4 volts @ 65 amps
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06-27-2020, 05:28 PM
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#3
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Rivet Master
2019 30' Classic
Canfield
, Ohio
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 2,559
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I'm loving it!
I have 500 watts on the roof and it works very well. I can't imagine 1000 watts and four lithium batteries. You are putting in four? Six?
__________________
"At some point, throwing money at the problem *is* the right answer", Uncle Bob
x\x/x\x/x\x/x\x/x\101970\x/x\x/x\x/x\x/x\x/x\/x\x/x\x/x
Tom & Doty
2019 Airstream Classic 30 Twin
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06-27-2020, 07:42 PM
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#4
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4 Rivet Member
2019 30' Classic
2021 Atlas
Charlotte
, North Carolina
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 302
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Had Lewster and Mike install 1kw on my classic with a 150/70. This morning, parked on the street under a tree, the sun came in from the side and we were getting 465W on a cloudy hazy day. Have pulled in over 900W a number of times. It fills the 600 AH of BB quickly. When we were getting it done, the plan was do all you can, all at once. Make it yours and noting says GMFL like all that will fit!
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06-27-2020, 09:19 PM
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#5
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Overkill Specialist
Commercial Member
2020 30’ Globetrotter
2014 23' International
Dadeville
, Alabama
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 4,516
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turk123
I'm loving it!
I have 500 watts on the roof and it works very well. I can't imagine 1000 watts and four lithium batteries. You are putting in four? Six?
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8.......
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06-27-2020, 09:21 PM
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#6
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Overkill Specialist
Commercial Member
2020 30’ Globetrotter
2014 23' International
Dadeville
, Alabama
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 4,516
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LilPeanut
Had Lewster and Mike install 1kw on my classic with a 150/70. This morning, parked on the street under a tree, the sun came in from the side and we were getting 465W on a cloudy hazy day. Have pulled in over 900W a number of times. It fills the 600 AH of BB quickly. When we were getting it done, the plan was do all you can, all at once. Make it yours and noting says GMFL like all that will fit!
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Hahaha
Go big or go home!
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06-28-2020, 10:13 AM
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#7
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Married with Airstream
2004 25' International CCD
Vancouver Island
, British Columbia
Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 934
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WOW!!!! we run 200w on the roof + 180w suitcase when sun is iffy :-)
__________________
La Dolce Vita Brick & Mona
We're Married With Airstream dot com
2004 International 25CCD Registered Name "Blue Streak"
2013 F-150HD FX4 SuperCrew Lariart (MaxTow) "Red Dragon"
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06-28-2020, 10:47 AM
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#8
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4 Rivet Member
2016 Interstate Grand Tour Ext
Charleston
, South Carolina
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 389
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Thanks for going green!
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06-28-2020, 11:10 AM
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#9
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3 Rivet Member
1985 31' Excella
st. Paul
, mn
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 239
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What makes them high voltage ?
The connected circuit max voltage is 21.9 - according to your label .
In solar system design , 48 vdc is the typical recommended max. - because of the tendency of DC voltage around & above of the 48vdc range to arc / jump between conductors .
What ever happened to common sense / engineering a system = design / plan before buying components ?
__________________
85 Excella , 31' , electric brakes , R. twin [ would like it to be a single ] , future upgrades , composting toilet [ replace black water tank with a 2nd fresh ] , solar power , instant hot water heater .
Tow 94 Dodge Ram , 4x4 , Cummins , AT .
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06-28-2020, 12:01 PM
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#10
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Half a Rivet Short
2017 30' Classic
2022 Interstate 24X
Carlisle
, Pennsylvania
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 15,684
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Hi
Well, 1KW at 12.0 V would be 83A. I'd go with the Victron 150/100. When you *really* need the power ( = batteries are dead) you will have it. 80% capacity is a pretty good design goal ....
No, it's not my charge card
With 8 batteries, there is no concern about "to much current". Even the 83A is right at C/10. They'll last forever and ever at that rate.
Bob
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06-28-2020, 12:47 PM
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#11
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Overkill Specialist
Commercial Member
2020 30’ Globetrotter
2014 23' International
Dadeville
, Alabama
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 4,516
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnTF
What makes them high voltage?
What ever happened to common sense / engineering a system = design / plan before buying components ?
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Haha. I guess my question was miss leading. Please don’t think I’m not versed in this stuff.
I have a design and a plan. I was just curious what others had done. Thought some might have used Morning Star of something else. Victron is about all I’ve used.
These Panels are 39 Cell Prototype panels vs 36 cells. They are higher voltage because of this increase in cell count. Meaning that a standard 100watt panel would have an Optimum Operating Voltage (Vmp): 17.9V @ Optimum Operating Current (Imp): 5.72A. vs these with a (Vmp): 21.9 @ (Imp): 4.58A. Hence higher voltage lower amps.
My “plan” is to wire these 10 panels in a series/parallel configuration for 5 pairs of panels. Voltage will be 44 ish volts at 22A. The controller I am planing to use is the Victron 150/85-Tr VE.Can
It’s a Toss Up now between 4 of the “NEW” Victron 200Ah LiFePo4 Batteries (man they are small) or 8 BattleBorns.
I’ll be running a Victron MultiPlus 3000 watt inverter through an AM solar SPS (Smart Phase Selector)
Victron CerboGX with Touch 50 monitor
Victron Lynx 1000A shunt With Lynx distribution buses
Victron 50A Buck-Boost Charger
Ect... as needed.
I’ve also considered using the MasterVolt system and doing the whole CZONE upgrade, but that’s just an option.
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06-28-2020, 12:49 PM
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#12
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Overkill Specialist
Commercial Member
2020 30’ Globetrotter
2014 23' International
Dadeville
, Alabama
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 4,516
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Quote:
Originally Posted by uncle_bob
Hi
Well, 1KW at 12.0 V would be 83A. I'd go with the Victron 150/100. When you *really* need the power ( = batteries are dead) you will have it. 80% capacity is a pretty good design goal ....
No, it's not my charge card
With 8 batteries, there is no concern about "to much current". Even the 83A is right at C/10. They'll last forever and ever at that rate.
Bob
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I’m thinking the 150/85 is the plan. We all know these panels will never produce 80 amps in the real world.
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06-28-2020, 12:55 PM
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#13
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2 Rivet Member
Currently Looking...
Reno
, Nevada
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 75
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Why not allow Victron output at 14.6V ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by GMFL
Looking at the Victron 150/70 VE. We will install them series/parallel so should run around 50volts @ 23Amps on the input side. Output should be 14.4 volts @ 65 amps
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Comment: Youre' doing 5 panels in parallel per string, 2 strings in series. Victron can handle 150 Volts total (disconnect voltage), so you would slightly exceed the maximum voltage by flipping it over (5 series sets of only 2 panels in parallel.) 10 panels offers only those two alternatives, so you are planning to use the right one. A controller which could handle 200V maximum input voltage could run 2 strings of panels in series, with some benefit of lowering current in the PV wires.
My question: AFAIK, you are using LFP batteries. Why would you limit output Voltage to only 14.4V, rather than 14.6V? (14.6V would finish charging the batteries more quickly when you reach "Constant Voltage" and the Victron current maximum is no longer the limiting factor). IIUC, reaching all the way up to 14.6 - rather than 14.4 - gives some BMS boards in "12.8 Volt" LFP batteries a better shot at balancing the individual cells. And your max output estimate of 65A * 14.4V is only 93% efficiency, I imagine that the Victron can do a bit better than that when the Voltage differential is that small - another reason to maybe consider output Voltage 14.6V.
Maybe you've got a non-Lithium Converter, which must not be "driven backwards" at 14.4V? Please reply, I'm curious. I own a PD Lithium capable "Wildkat", which runs CC/CV at around 14.7, and doesn't get driven backwards from my Solar Controller at 14.6V.
- - - -
My own Solar configuration is only about 500 watts. I use an 'el-cheapo' Ep-Solar 'BN' controller. It can't be programmed to skip over 'Float Mode' completely (it's not a genuine CC/CV Lithium charger). But I've been getting pretty good results with: 'Boost Charge Voltage' = 14.6V, 'Equalize Charge Voltage' = 14.6V, Equalize Duration = 0 minutes, Float Charge Voltage = 13.5V, Boost Reconnect Voltage = 13.3V, and Boost Duration = 180 minutes (the maximum value). Things like "Discharge Limit", Under Voltage Warning" are set a ways above the too-low Battery BMS limits, but I've never hit any of those. Over-Voltage Disconnect is 14.7V, with Reconnect at 14.6V.
Whenever I use the batteries (LFP *2) to run an appliance, Voltage pretty quickly drops below 13.3V - and that causes the controller jumps back to "Boost Mode" for up to 3 hours, if the sun is still shining bright enough to supply all the power the batteries want to take.
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06-28-2020, 01:14 PM
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#14
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Site Team
2017 30' International
Broomfield
, Colorado
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 3,555
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GMFL;
It’s a Toss Up now between 4 of the “NEW” Victron 200Ah LiFePo4 Batteries (man they are small) or 8 BattleBorns.
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Are you considering the Victron SuperPacks? If you are note the very low discharge rate - 0.5C. Just something to take note of when running your Air Con.
I have the legacy Smart lithium with external BMS. More system complexity and additional weight, but your get 2C discharge rate which is nice, and they communicate via VE.Bus to boot.
BB are rate 1C I believe.....
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06-28-2020, 01:16 PM
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#15
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Overkill Specialist
Commercial Member
2020 30’ Globetrotter
2014 23' International
Dadeville
, Alabama
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 4,516
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wulfraat
are you considering the victron superpacks?
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yes!
I see them with a 1C discharge rate
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06-28-2020, 01:17 PM
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#16
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Overkill Specialist
Commercial Member
2020 30’ Globetrotter
2014 23' International
Dadeville
, Alabama
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 4,516
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rickst29
Comment: Youre' doing 5 panels in parallel per string, 2 strings in series. Victron can handle 150 Volts total (disconnect voltage), so you would slightly exceed the maximum voltage by flipping it over (5 series sets of only 2 panels in parallel.) 10 panels offers only those two alternatives, so you are planning to use the right one. A controller which could handle 200V maximum input voltage could run 2 strings of panels in series, with some benefit of lowering current in the PV wires.
My question: AFAIK, you are using LFP batteries. Why would you limit output Voltage to only 14.4V, rather than 14.6V? (14.6V would finish charging the batteries more quickly when you reach "Constant Voltage" and the Victron current maximum is no longer the limiting factor). IIUC, reaching all the way up to 14.6 - rather than 14.4 - gives some BMS boards in "12.8 Volt" LFP batteries a better shot at balancing the individual cells. And your max output estimate of 65A * 14.4V is only 93% efficiency, I imagine that the Victron can do a bit better than that when the Voltage differential is that small - another reason to maybe consider output Voltage 14.6V.
Maybe you've got a non-Lithium Converter, which must not be "driven backwards" at 14.4V? Please reply, I'm curious. I own a PD Lithium capable "Wildkat", which runs CC/CV at around 14.7, and doesn't get driven backwards from my Solar Controller at 14.6V.
- - - -
My own Solar configuration is only about 500 watts. I use an 'el-cheapo' Ep-Solar 'BN' controller. It can't be programmed to skip over 'Float Mode' completely (it's not a genuine CC/CV Lithium charger). But I've been getting pretty good results with: 'Boost Charge Voltage' = 14.6V, 'Equalize Charge Voltage' = 14.6V, Equalize Duration = 0 minutes, Float Charge Voltage = 13.5V, Boost Reconnect Voltage = 13.3V, and Boost Duration = 180 minutes (the maximum value). Things like "Discharge Limit", Under Voltage Warning" are set a ways above the too-low Battery BMS limits, but I've never hit any of those. Over-Voltage Disconnect is 14.7V, with Reconnect at 14.6V.
Whenever I use the batteries (LFP *2) to run an appliance, Voltage pretty quickly drops below 13.3V - and that causes the controller jumps back to "Boost Mode" for up to 3 hours, if the sun is still shining bright enough to supply all the power the batteries want to take.
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I am wiring 5 pairs of 2.
I am a BattleBorn dealer and I use the setting they recommend. See photo.
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06-28-2020, 01:31 PM
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#17
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2 Rivet Member
Currently Looking...
Reno
, Nevada
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 75
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That's curious ....
Just a week later, another BB person "Jesse" posted this (for the previous 'AN' models of my controller) https://battlebornbatteries.com/sett...ar-controller/
He recommended a slightly higher "Float Voltage" value than mine, but we're nearly identical for everything else. Those two people might want to coordinate their recommendations a bit closer?
With your hint, I'll be dropping mine to 14.5V - even though the PD Converter seems to be closer to 14.7V than 14.6, considerably above the BB-preferred values.
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06-28-2020, 01:49 PM
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#18
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Site Team
2017 30' International
Broomfield
, Colorado
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 3,555
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GMFL
yes!
I see them with a 1C discharge rate
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My bad, was looking at max vs recommended. 800ah is a good number to have. running the Air Con off batts while while traveling or boondocking is nice.
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06-28-2020, 01:55 PM
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#19
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Overkill Specialist
Commercial Member
2020 30’ Globetrotter
2014 23' International
Dadeville
, Alabama
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 4,516
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rickst29
Just a week later, another BB person "Jesse" posted this (for the previous 'AN' models of my controller) https://battlebornbatteries.com/sett...ar-controller/
He recommended a slightly higher "Float Voltage" value than mine, but we're nearly identical for everything else. Those two people might want to coordinate their recommendations a bit closer?
With your hint, I'll be dropping mine to 14.5V - even though the PD Converter seems to be closer to 14.7V than 14.6, considerably above the BB-preferred values.
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Jessie and I are good friends. I will call him and see what he has to say.
I also follow Peter Kennedy’s advice from PKYS. He and I both believe in not overcharging LiFePo4 batteries.
Check time stamp 23:23 and 28:22 in video below. It’s Dennis one of the owners of BattleBorn stating 14.4V
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...ature=emb_logo
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06-28-2020, 02:26 PM
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#20
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Overkill Specialist
Commercial Member
2020 30’ Globetrotter
2014 23' International
Dadeville
, Alabama
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 4,516
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wulfraat
My bad, was looking at max vs recommended. 800ah is a good number to have. running the Air Con off batts while while traveling or boondocking is nice.
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The 800 along with the 1Kw on the roof will be as close as I can get to energy independence.
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