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10-19-2007, 11:15 AM
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#1
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New Member
Currently Looking...
Pasadena
, California
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 2
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Wife Wants A Bambi
My wife & I are new to this site but not to the internet (been on it since 1986) or camping which we have done for even more years (had a class C camper of 1970s vintage and are now passing on our 1985 VW camper to our older son). I saw an earlier thread and do not want to set off a similar discussion but I have a question about towing with the Jeep Liberty diesel. We are looking to pick up one and we also like the 19ft Bambi Safari SE. (We just looked at them at a local RV show & my wife ‘really’ likes that trailer, which she somehow now considers ‘hers’ even though we haven’t bought one yet.) While the specs are within the design range it would be at the top of the towing capacity. Also the Airstream site does not give any guidelines about what a loaded trailer weighs. I would expect we would not be carrying much, if any liquids like water to a site but we would have propane and want to store some things in the trailer for travel; food, for instance. We are kayakers (hence the name ‘yakers’ and we would want to take ours along although I expect we would put them on the Liberty rack. But there is a bunch of gear that goes with kayaking although it doesn’t weigh that much. We could shift a certain amount of cargo to the Liberty but we do not want to overload the towing vehicle either. So with a good hitch (which would that be?) and trying to minimize weight in the Bambi, is this a viable combination?
If not, we are going to need some marital advice since my wife really wants the Bambi and I really want the Liberty.
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10-19-2007, 11:40 AM
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#2
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Rivet Master
1956 22' Safari
2015 27' Flying Cloud
Vintage Kin Owner
Conifer/Evergreen
, Colorado
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 12,702
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First off...Welcome to the FORUMS!
For example...our 19'GlobeTrotter weighs 2890 on paper - keep in mind this does not include any options and is "dry". In actuality, it weighs about 3500-3600 lbs when loaded for a trip - which amounts to 600+ lbs of "stuff" including: - (2) full 20 lb propane tanks
- 20 gal fresh water
- empty black tank
- no gray tank
- no A/C
- no awning
- no microwave
- personal belongings
While your starting point would definately be different with a new trailer and your "options will vary, your "stuff" would probably weigh about the same - not less, we travel pretty light.
Check your weights carefully for both the trailer & the Jeep...add 10-20% then decide. Keep in mind you loose effeciency at altitude (if you plan any mountain travels) and also as the truck ages. We towed with a boderline on paper (which turned out to be undersized in reality) tow vehicle our first couple of trips...it was miserable. We had three options - 1) Buy a new TV, 2) Sell the trailer or 3) Jail time - one of us would have killed the other - no amount of martial counseling would have helped and our trailer is too small to bring a counselor along every trip!
Shari
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10-19-2007, 12:16 PM
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#3
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1 Rivet Short
1989 25' Excella
By The Bay
, Rhode Island
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,620
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yakers
My wife & I are new to this site but not to the internet (been on it since 1986)
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Welcome!
You must know Al Gore!
We "yak" also and to be honest, the gear really adds up. I like having a pickup so I can just toss it all in (or on top). The Liberty is small (not good) and very short wheel base (even worse) for towing. Looks like the Wife will have to go out and find a truck guy...
Bill
__________________
*Life is Good-Camping all around the Continent*
*Good people drink good beer-Hunter S Thompson*
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10-19-2007, 12:20 PM
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#4
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4 Rivet Member
2006 16' International CCD
New York
, New York
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 268
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First of all you have to realize that the UBW (unit base weight) number Airstream shows for their Bambi is just a pleasant fantasy - once the trailer actually gets on the dealer's lot loaded with options (like A/C) it will be close to the GVWR minus the weight of water and propane. Then you get to add hitch weight and other trailer essentials before you even get to clothes, food, etc. A 19' Bambi will weigh close to 4500lbs and a 16' Bambi will weigh close to 3500lbs.
Second, keep in mind that the tow capacity rating for a vehicle is for a single driver with no cargo. Adding people and cargo subtracts from the tow rating.
A Jeep Liberty Limited has a tow capacity of 5000lbs.
Could you tow a 19' Bambi? Yes, so long as you get a good W/D hitch, keep it slow, and avoid any mountains. Would you enjoy it? No.
My recommendation if you are attached to the Liberty would be to find a 16' Bambi - if you are lucky you might find a used 16' Safari (they were built through the 2006 model year).
Or if you need to get the 19' Bambi to keep the wife happy there are a bunch of medium size SUVs with tow ratings in the 6000-6500lb range all of which would be fine choices.
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10-19-2007, 12:26 PM
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#5
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Rivet Master
Currently Looking...
West of Fort Worth
, Texas
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 6,699
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All of this yak yak about T/V weights, trailer weights, yak weights is meaningless.
If you've been married very long, you know that "if momma isn't happy, nobody is happy".
So, what kind of truck are you going to buy?
Dave
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10-19-2007, 02:27 PM
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#6
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Rivet Master
1956 22' Flying Cloud
Venice
, California
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 672
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fyrzowt
All of this yak yak about T/V weights, trailer weights, yak weights is meaningless.
If you've been married very long, you know that "if momma isn't happy, nobody is happy".
So, what kind of truck are you going to buy?
Dave
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ditto what dave said. also, being in pasadena, you're sure to be exploring the mountains of california and going over the grapevine so you definately want a bigger tow vehicle. it doesn't have to be the latest and greatest full ton, double hemi, tri dually, BUT it does deserve some consideration.
check out the towing threads, you'll have enough reading in there to keep you busy for awhile.
welcome to the forums and good luck with your search!
__________________
david
*by asking the above question,
i verify that i have already used
the search feature to the best of my ability...
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10-19-2007, 03:20 PM
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#7
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Rivet Master
2014 25' Flying Cloud
Cuddebackville
, New York
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 4,346
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Make it "Wife wants a Safari" and I've been there, done that. It was our 30th anniversary present to ourselves. I couldn't be happier.
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10-19-2007, 03:32 PM
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#8
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1 Rivet Member
1969 23' Safari
Arroyo Hondo
, New Mexico
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wayne&Sam
Make it "Wife wants a Safari" and I've been there, done that. It was our 30th anniversary present to ourselves. I couldn't be happier.
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Why not since you are already buying a new truck!
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10-19-2007, 07:21 PM
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#9
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Rivet Master
1963 19' Globetrotter
Laguna Beach
, California
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 766
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Hmmm... keep your Liberty and buy a used Suburban?
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10-19-2007, 07:58 PM
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#10
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Moderator
2015 25' FB Flying Cloud
2012 23' FB Flying Cloud
2005 25' Safari
Santa Rosa Beach
, Florida
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 13,159
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Welcome to the Forums. We're glad to have you with us. We are yakers also. The yak rides on the roof of the Suburban.
The Liberty might come up a little short on room for all the Yak stuff plus camping stuff that's not in the Bambi. I'm afraid that the 19' Bambi would be a real heavy tow for a little guy like the Liberty.
This combo wouldn't be in my comfort zone, but to each his own.
__________________
SuEllyn & Brian McCabe
WBCCI #3628 -- AIR #14872 -- TAC #FL-7
2015 FC 25' FB (Lucy) with ProPride
2020 Silverado 2500 (Vivian)
2023 Rivian R1T (Opal)
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10-19-2007, 08:39 PM
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#11
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Aluminut
2004 25' Safari
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, Illinois
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 10,477
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I think ljmiii said it best....nuf said.
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10-19-2007, 09:01 PM
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#12
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Rivet Master
2006 25' Safari FB SE
Broadway
, North Carolina
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 838
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The SE is a very nice package Yaker! Good choice . There are not many options on an SE so the UBW will be pretty close to what it will weigh. If you really want a Liberty it seems like a pretty good match if you keep an eye on loading. Check these numbers against what you came up with:
To get 5000lbs towing capacity it seems you need the automatic and 3.73 gears. Looks like 3.73 gears are available only on Limited model. If you wanted a Sport, you could get a shop to put in 3.73 or even 4.10 gears.
> Airstream specs put 19' Bambi SE empty weight at 3680lbs. (UBW). It's maximum total weight should not exceed 4500 lbs. (GVWR), This means you can put up to 820 lbs of propane, fluids, options and gear into the Bambi. Based on the way you said you travel – you can probably stay well under 820 lbs..
> If you fully load the Bambi with 820lbs, up to its recommended maximum of 4500lbs, The rig will be 500lbs under the Liberty’s 5000 lb towing capacity.
> The Liberty’s payload capacity is 1150 lbs. Subract the actual tongue weight the Bambi will put on the rear of the truck. By carefully setting up you WD hitch, this would be around 500lbs. Leaving you room to put appx 600 lbs in the truck.
> Combined weight limits: Add the weight of the truck to the total maximum loads you might want to put in both the truck and the Bambi. Then compare that total to the Liberty’s combined weight rating: 4100+4500+600=9200lbs. At maximum recommended loading you would be 900lbs under the Liberty’s recommended 10,100 lb GCWR.
So by paying attention to how you load things up it looks like you can stay under Jeep's recommended maximum loads. Towing with empty tanks should keep you well under.
210 HP and 235 ft-lbs torque seems adequate for the 5100lb max load but you’ll probably not be passing any diesel dudes uphill. If you are set on a Liberty, you'll be far happpier campers if you go ahead and find someone to put 4.10 gears into it. If you're not set on a Liberty, you could probably find a similar SUV that would give you a bit more breathing room with say, 6000lb towing cap and 30-40 more hp/torque.
The key to a stable rig will be to get the WD and anti-sway set up properly. Our Airstream dealer took care of that for us.
.............Scott
__________________
2006 Safari SE FB
2000 F150 4.2L (retired), 2011 F250 6.2L, 2010 ML550, 2000 Excursion 7.3L
Broadway, NC
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10-19-2007, 09:13 PM
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#13
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4 Rivet Member
2007 19' Bambi
Ottawa
, Ontario
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 460
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Welcome yakers!
You were on the net in 1986? Wow! And I thought I was an early adopted back in 1995 when there was a handful of websites.
Anyways, my wife and I had the same dilema... almost. We already owned a Liberty and wanted to buy a new Bambi.
After mucho reading, and learning... we traded the Liberty in for a GMC Yukon. Didn't even try to haul the Bambi with our Liberty... mainly due to the short wheelbase, but also being so close to capacity on tow weight and tongue weight. We opted for a used Yukon which eased the pain in buy Bambi and new TV at the same time.
Needless to say we have never looked back.. happy campers.
Sorry to see our Liberty go though! Mind you we find the Yukon more comfortable for long hauls.
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10-20-2007, 10:22 AM
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#14
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New Member
Currently Looking...
Pasadena
, California
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 2
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Bye, Bye, Bambi
Thank you, thank you for all your informed and safety conscious postings.
Well, between an immovable object and an irresistible force something had to give. In this case it was my wife’s Airstream dream, at least for now. We decided on another lighter trailer, because trailering is new to us and $45K+ is a lot to chance on a trailering life which we are not sure of yet. Don’t be too hard on us, a good bit of this deference to each other has come as the result of heightened sensitivities from my spending last Tuesday night in the cardiac emergency ward (looks like things will be OK) so the decision is to focus on what we can do now. In a year or two we will look at upgrading to an Airstream, by then we will know a lot more about what we need both in a trailer and in the towing vehicle.
So what did we go with? A T@da 17 foot in Red. And it looks like the Jeep will be able to handle that weight pretty well. Hope to cross the paths of some of you Airstream folks and show off, inspect and play with each others toys.
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10-20-2007, 10:27 AM
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#15
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Site Team
1964 26' Overlander
1964 19' Globetrotter
OlyPen
, Washington
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 13,936
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Good luck with the T@b. They are similarly cool....
I have a prediction: Your wife will want to stop at Airstream dealers just too look.....
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10-20-2007, 11:31 AM
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#16
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Rivet Master
Currently Looking...
St. Catharines
, South Western Ontario
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 2,367
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__________________
Airstreams..... The best towing trailers on the planet!
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10-20-2007, 08:08 PM
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#17
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4 Rivet Member
2007 19' Bambi
Ottawa
, Ontario
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 460
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T @ B ainst so bad! We had one at a teardrop gathering that we organize. The T @ B's have a rear outdoor galley which is great too.
Enjoy!
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10-21-2007, 08:35 PM
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#18
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3 Rivet Member
2003 22' International CCD
Ledyard
, Connecticut
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 154
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Sold our T@B for an Airstream
We sold our T@B in July after towing it for two years first with a volvo xc70 wagon, then a F150 V6. Our dream was always an Airstream but we couldn't justify the price back then. We loved that little T@B. Ours was the L shaped galley layout with the full closet and tent attachment. With the 2 Goldens we found we had a lot of gear to set up each time we camped. We thought about the TADA when it hit the market this summer, but it's main limitation was the fact that the ceiling height is only 5'9", same as the T@B, my husband could not stand up in either. We also thought it was a little pricey, not that the original T@B could be considered inexpensive! It was just our luck that a 4 year old Airstream showed up on Craigslist and was located at the other end of the state. The price we paid for the AS was the same or less than the TADA.
I know you will love the TADA, they are cool, but if your dream is an Airstream, you will not have the TADA forever. If it is like the T@B, you will get a decent price for it when you sell it in a couple years.
Oh ya, I forgot to mention, I hope you like company. We always had to give tours of the T@B whenever we camped. You will have lots of new friends who just have to take a peek! Enjoy it.
Mary
__________________
Sir Logan Foxhall, OAP, OJP, NAC, NCC, CL1, PS1, PJ1, CGC
Sir Blaze Foxhall, Let the Games Begin!!!
The more I try to understand people, the better I like my dog.
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10-21-2007, 08:56 PM
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#19
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Rivet Master
Currently Looking...
1982 24' Airstream 240
Ventura
, California
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 1,645
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We saw the new T@da at the RV show in Pomona and it looks like a fun trailer...I had seen the post that someone here on the forums that provided a link to it so I made a point of stopping to see it.......am sure you are going to love it......it looks like an Airstream cousin for sure......anyway, it is all about the camping......hope to see you on the road......pj
__________________
Paula & Ed
WBCCI # 8252 Air#13593
1982 24'Motorhome (82Ste P)
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10-22-2007, 04:43 AM
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#20
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Rivet Master
2014 25' Flying Cloud
Cuddebackville
, New York
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 4,346
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Not a bad idea. We started with a used hybrid to see if we liked using a camper and then upgraded. At least you went with something intereresting and not just a boring old box! I've swapped tours with T@b owners- I'd like to see the T@da. Good luck and enjoy it!
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