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[monkeypants]

Hello
My wife & I are not yet owners, but I want to be able to learn from you folks, so I registered. Eventually we hope to get a 27' Classic. Right now we are caregiving for my wife's 90 yr old mom. Traveling just isn't in the picture right now. So we've decided to educate ourselves and save up for our baby to be. We've made the pilgramage to colonial airstream in Lakewood NJ. We're no strangers to RVing, but we understand that there's always someone out there with good advice.
My question today is--- We've never towed, we had a 31' minnie winnie, anyone have input about what I'll be facing trying to tow a 27' classic(9000 weight) with a 2008 Chrysler Aspen (9000 weight towing ability)? Colonial says I can. My dealer doesn't want to commit to an answer, and my mechanic says why not.
Any input would be appreciated and nice to meet you all!

[utee94]

Welcome to the Forums, you've definitely come to the right place to find out about all things Airstream-related, as well as a ton of information about RVs in general.

I can't really help on the towing question, as all of my trailers have been much lighter than 9,000 lbs. But I'm sure someone will be along shortly with an opinion for you.

-Marcus

[ROBERT CROSS]

Monkey,

As you can see we have a 25 Classic, IMHO, 'yer gonn'a need more TV, (tow vehicle.) The Aspen may be able, but it's always better to have more than you need, than to need more than you have. The 80% rule applies here, stay approxamately 15%-20% below the TV's rated capacity.

It's called piece-of-mind.

Good luck and keep posting.

B.C.

[bullydogsmom]

Welcome, you have come to the right place to ask questions, that's for sure. I don't think there has been a question asked here that hasn't gotten a good answer.


No such thing as a stupid question.

Annette

[moosetags]

Welcome to the Forums. We're glad to have you with us.

As to your question about towing a 27FB with an Aspen, I'm afraid that this TT/TV combination would not be within my towing comfort zone. Even though the Aspen website depicts a silver Aspen towing an Airstream, it's probably not a 27 footer.

A 27FB loaded for travel would approach the Aspen's tow limit, especially if you were to carry anything (cargo, tools, etc.) in the Aspen. The Aspen could probably do the job, but marginally.

Always remember that an insufficient tow vehicle is the primary cause of a perfectly good Airstream becoming a very expensive piece of yard art.

Brian

[monkeypants]

OK
Given that I don't want or need to replace the Aspen (only 16,000 miles and paid for), I think my best move is to look at a 25' classic or see if the wife would consider a Safari.
Question, what is it about the classic that makes it weigh so much more than the other models?

[moosetags]

I was just on the Airstream website and checked the GVWRs on 25 & 27FB's.

27FB Classic - 8800
27FB Flying Cloud - 7600

25FB Classic - 7600
25FB Flying Cloud - 7300

I have no idea why a 27FB classic should weigh so much more than the the 27FB Flying Cloud, when in the 25's, the the weight difference is negligible.
I would call Airstream in Jackson Center and ask about this. It almost seems that the 27FB weight difference might indicate a typo on the website.

Brian

[willyd]

Hello from florida and welcome to the forum. Best of success.

[Lumatic]

I'm not familiar with the Aspen, but would not be comfortable towing at any vehicle"s towing limit. Some other considerations, however, are on what kind of terrain will you be towing? and will towing at slower speeds, say about 55, be OK? If you will tow primarily on flat interstate it could work. Up in the mountains is a whole other story.

[monkeypants]

Patrick Botticelli from Colonial Airstream was nice enough to point out to me that the dry weight of a 27' classic was 6900 lbs. Realisticly loaded would take me to about 7600 lbs, still within comfort range of the Aspen's 8900 lbs towing capacity. He was even nice enough to send pics of various Durangos (an Aspen is just a fancy Durango) towing up to a 30' classic.
Starting down the road of my education, thank you all for your input and patience!

Mark & Susan

[silverleeper]

Nice rig, Based on the Dodge Durango. It will work if you have the Hemi but, keep in mind that you will want to take things with you and that could add a couple thousand pounds to your bottom line.

From edmunds.com

Powertrains and Performance
Standard on all Chrysler Aspens is a revised-for-2008 4.7-liter V8. It's rated at 303 hp and 330 pound-feet of torque. A 5.7-liter Hemi V8 providing 335 horses and 370 lb-ft of torque is optional. Backing both engines is a five-speed automatic transmission delivering power via 2WD or 4WD. Properly equipped, an Aspen with the 4.7-liter V8 can tow up to 5,950 pounds, while Hemi-powered models can lug up to 8,900 pounds -- impressive for a vehicle of this size. EPA testing for 2008 stands at 13 mpg city/18 mpg highway for a 4WD 5.7-liter V8-equipped model.

[moosetags]

Make sure that you consider the weight of the the passengers and cargo that you plan to carry in the Aspen. This can impact the towing experience significantly.

Also, you need to consider your planned use of your Airstream. If your plan is tow your Airstream 40 miles to the lake twice a year, a marginal tow vehicle will do just fine. If you plan to go anywhere and everywhere as often as you can, you're going to want a tow vehicle that can do the job well.

One more thing that you need to inspect is the tires on the Aspen. Most likely, it was delivered with load range C passenger car tires. You should seriously consider replacing these with Load range E light truck tires before towing a 7500#+ trailer.

We have had a 25FB for the past three years. We have pulled it over 40,000 miles and have spent almost 400 nights in it. When we bought the Airstream we has an '04 Tahoe (5.3 liter) and an '05 Suburban 2500 (6.0 liter). We pulled the Airstream with the Tahoe enough to realize that its towing capabilities were not deep enough into our comfort zone. It did OK, but OK does not cut it for us. I often got the feeling that the Airstream was in control, pushing the Tahoe around. When towing with the 3/4 ton Suburban, there is no question that the tow vehicle is in charge. That's the way I like it.

Also keep in mind that many RV salesmen have never been RVing and have never towed anything.

Regards, Brian

[ROBERT CROSS]

What Brian said.....

A good W/D hitch with sway control is critical with the shorter SUV's.

Most important.....get out there and Stream. You won't know 'til ya try.

[CanoeStream]

For both tow vehicles or trailers, the listed curb or empty weight is always for the base model without options. TV trim levels may have different capacities. I usually think of Classics approaching 1000# heavier because they have about all the options included and then some (heavy solid hickory cabinet fronts, larger air conditioners w heat pump, 1200# higher capacity axles). At that, the 27FB Classic has only 15# more tongue weight than a 27FB Flying Cloud (790# vs 775#).

Does your Aspen have a towing package? More specifically, does your model level include an installed Class III/IV hitch receiver in its capacity specs? You'll have to do some model comparisons at the Chrysler website (or in your manual). A hitch receiver considered an option would require subtracting that weight from your TV payload capacity. Ditto on the Hemi comments. Do you have at least a 3.73 rear differential equivalent?

Sixty pounds of propane in the tanks and weight distribution/antisway gear on the A-frame will almost all add to the hitch weight (simple distance from the axle moment arm considerations). Just the hitch bar & ball for my Reese weighs 45 pounds! Put a modest amount of personal gear inside the trailer and you shouldn't be surprised to have a ready-to-camp tongue weight approaching 900# [on edit: my first version of this post had very poor math. sorry].

The Edmunds site has the 2009 Aspen listed for 1550# payload capacity. This will leave you with a maximum of approx 650# for gas, humans, pets and other personal gear/luggage in your Aspen. This may or may not be too small depending on the size of your family. And the 80% rule (or 85% depending who you read) suggests not loading any limit to the max (load capacity, tow capacity, GCWR).

Andrew T from Can-Am RV has a lot of experience at finessing specs for safe towing. He certainly would recommend a Hensley-type antisway gear. I'm familiar he often recommends larger TV wheels to get lower profile tires and cut sidewall flex. The only reference he has made to Durango is here. His experience is unique; ie, he truly takes the numbers to maximum tuneup level. I shouldn't give you extracts of his technique and tell you that is enough info to follow. Get yourself to a towing guru!

[monkeypants]

I'm getting an education. Yes, I have the HEMI. No, I hadn't considered some of the weights mentioned, passengers, propane, etc. I can't thank you all enough for your input and links to useful info. I can't wait to be a streamer!

[CanoeStream]

Cool photo on Chrysler's Aspen page...


These big-mid SUVs don't have quite as much oomph as an HD 1/2 ton pickup. It will take some finessing -- if a 27' Classic is even possible. Check it out well. We'll want to hear more of the story.

[moosetags]

As I read through this thread again ,including my own posts, I had an epiphany. Give the Aspen a try.

Step 1 - Acquire the Airstream of your dreams. If it is the 27FB Classic, so be it. Keep in mind that if you take to Airstreaming (and I know that you will) you will probably own this Airstream for the rest of your lives. So, get exactly what you want. The Tow vehicle issue is secondary as your Airstream will outlast numerous tow vehicles.

Step 2 - Since you already own the Aspen, try towing the Airstream with it. Don't overdo prepping the Aspen for towing. Do only the things that are easily transferable to another tow vehicle, like a WDAS (weight distributing, anti-sway) hitch system, trailer brake controller, tow mirrors, etc.

Step 3 - If the Aspen is up to the job and you feel comfortable with it's towing capabilities, go forward with any additional upgrades, like tires, transmission cooler, heavier duty receiver, shocks, springs, etc.

Hopefully, Step 3 will be the end, but if not, you will be in a much better position to consider your options relative to a tow vehicle.

Good luck, Brian

[Gene]

I agree with Bob and Brian (before his epiphany). This is a borderline thing at best. Classics are a lot heavier than Safari/Flying Clouds. But even the S/FC trim line can be somewhat heavier than the weights given by Airstream because they load lots of options on all of them. The solid wood cabinet work on the Classics may be the biggest reason for the big weight difference. The Internationals are closer to the S/FC in weight. Check the Airstream website for specs and be aware they sometimes contradict themselves in the info given in their brochures.

Payload (how much cargo and tongue wt. the TV can handle with adjustments for a WD hitch) is a big issue. SUV's of the same brand will almost always have less payload than pickups. The most expensive trim line (i.e., Aspen) will have so extra goodies, payload will be even less. When you look up payload info given out by Dodge, the options will not be be subtracted from the payload figure and you have to figure it out yourself. Fuel and coolant may or may not be taken into account in figuring payload depending on the manufacturer.

You can make up some of the weight issue by taking less stuff with you—less food, clothes, etc. That stuff has a tendency to creep upward with time. There's a lot of things that tend to end up in the TV—generator, extra fuel, tools, outside chairs and table, etc. Make some allowance for that.

Our decision was to buy a 25' Safari FB and tow with a 1/2 ton pickup—a Tundra. Works very well for us, but I feel we are close on payload, probably at 90%, not 80%. There's plenty of room on GVWR and GCVWR, but it's the payload.

Maybe Brian (post epiphany) is right. See how it works. The Airstream will be around a lot longer than any TV and you want to get the right trailer. Have the Airstream determine the TV, not the TV determine the Airsteam (we didn't do it quite that way since we weren't going to have any TV but a Toyota). You indicate you have some time before you make a decision, so take your time to learn.

Gene

[ROBERT CROSS]

Wow...two, three, four Try-it's in a row. Are we getting too civilized around here?

[CanoeStream]

I was amazed when I saw cosmotini's 28' International brand new at the Midwest Rally in June '07. Wow! Don't overlook that possibility. Surprise of all surprises -- it's an inch shorter than the 27' FB. Go figger... But it's a beautiful, roomy Airstream!

However the tongue weight is 100# more.