How is this possible?

[Belbein]

Originally Posted by Protagonist

Most likely the SUV wasn't the tow vehicle at all. It doesn't appear to be hitched up in the photo, just parked in front. .

Good eye!

[thewarden]

Originally Posted by AirMiles

Yes, a Porsche Cayenne has a 7700# tow rating and a payload capacity of 1657# based on these specs: https://www.cars.com/research/porsche-cayenne/specs/ Those specs will work for those who pack lightly or carry few passengers. I lived with a truck with a 1600# payload capacity and packed lightly to stay within its ratings. My current F250 truck has 2000# of payload and I am still payload challenged. My next truck will be an F350 with over 3000# of payload!

Some simple math to explain my payload challenge: 27' FBQ tongue weight = 1100#, me, the wife and the dog almost 500#, total 1600#. Not much room for anything else in a 1600# payload vehicle. I'm from the U.S. where the average person is obese!

Agreed, the payload capacity is not the best but, unlike your GT, my TW is 887 lbs loaded according to my Sherline scale. I am also going to be swapping out the old Interstates for new Battle Borns so that will give me about another 60lbs cushion.

[AirMiles]

Originally Posted by thewarden

Agreed, the payload capacity is not the best but, unlike your GT, my TW is 857 lbs loaded according to my Sherline scale. I am also going to be swapping out the old Interstates for new Battle Borns so that will give me about another 60lbs cushion.

When you have the extra payload, you fill it up. If I still had my 1600# payload truck, I'd widdle down my tongue weight too. I'd dump the 250# hitch for my 100# hitch, switch the 30# propane tanks to 20# tanks, move all that stuff under the front queen bed mid-ship . . . But its sure nice to have excess payload so you can bring whatever you desire, including (occasionally) the grand kids and their toys.

[BayouBiker]

Originally Posted by thewarden

I have towed my 27FB many thousands of trouble free miles with an SUV. I can tell you that it tows much more stable and comfortable than any truck would. And it stops and handles better than any truck in emergency maneuvers as well. ALL the weights are within their ratings BTW.

Well, I get that you are proud of your high performance SUV and who wouldn't? I have no reason to doubt you find your Cayenne comfortable and pleasant to tow with and very stable, but to claim without evidence that it is more comfortable and stable than any truck is a logical, physical and technical impossibility.

Logical because comfort is subjective and others will find some trucks much more comfortable than your mid sized SUV. Physical and technical because there are technical handling stability reasons your vehicle has a tow limit of 7,700 lbs that is not related to the Class IV hitch. Therefore it is self evident a truck, with max vehicle weight of 10,000 lbs a payload capacity of say 2,900 lbs and a towing capacity of 17,000 lbs, will perform better at those test the Cayenne just barely passed when carrying the same combined payload of say 1,650 lb and towing a 7,700 lb trailer.

The control system dynamic associated with sway for example is most affected by relative inertia of tow vehicle vs. Trailer. Your vehicle weight at about 7,200 lb vs. a 7,700 lb trailer gives you a much lower critical speed than the truck with a vehicle weight of 8,700 lbs. Cross sectional area is also an important factor and the truck is much more compatible with the trailer meaning cross wind forces act on the tow vehicle more in unison with the trailer and therefore with significantly less yaw angle response. I could continue but I hope the general reader gets the idea.

[smithcreek]

Originally Posted by BayouBiker

I could continue but I hope the general reader gets the idea.

General reader?!?? That's a good one! You think after the last ten threads, by the same ten people, each of which lasted at least 10 pages there are "general readers" following along wondering what gem of wisdom will be bestowed next. After I read the title of the thread, "how is this possible" I thought "damn right, how in god's name is this possible? Yet another thread about the exact same subject with the exact same responses by the exact same people"? But, here we are, so apparently it is possible!

[thewarden]

Originally Posted by BayouBiker

Well, I get that you are proud of your high performance SUV and who wouldn't? I have no reason to doubt you find your Cayenne comfortable and pleasant to tow with and very stable, but to claim without evidence that it is more comfortable and stable than any truck is a logical, physical and technical impossibility.

Logical because comfort is subjective and others will find some trucks much more comfortable than your mid sized SUV. Physical and technical because there are technical handling stability reasons your vehicle has a tow limit of 7,700 lbs that is not related to the Class IV hitch. Therefore it is self evident a truck, with max vehicle weight of 10,000 lbs a payload capacity of say 2,900 lbs and a towing capacity of 17,000 lbs, will perform better at those test the Cayenne just barely passed when carrying the same combined payload of say 1,650 lb and towing a 7,700 lb trailer.

The control system dynamic associated with sway for example is most affected by relative inertia of tow vehicle vs. Trailer. Your vehicle weight at about 7,200 lb vs. a 7,700 lb trailer gives you a much lower critical speed than the truck with a vehicle weight of 8,700 lbs. Cross sectional area is also an important factor and the truck is much more compatible with the trailer meaning cross wind forces act on the tow vehicle more in unison with the trailer and therefore with significantly less yaw angle response. I could continue but I hope the general reader gets the idea.

You are missing the point of the OPs original post. (How is this possible?) I was simply trying to say that it is possible, indeed very possible, for the pictured SUV to tow the trailer in the photo.

We could argue the merits of towing with a truck vs a properly equipped and set up SUV all day. The fact is, towing with an SUV is very viable, and in a lot of cases, preferable from a handling and braking perspective.

I don't know where you get that it is self evident a truck, with max vehicle weight of 10,000 lbs a payload capacity of say 2,900 lbs and a towing capacity of 17,000 lbs, will perform better at those test the Cayenne just barely passed when carrying the same combined payload of say 1,650 lb and towing a 7,700 lb trailer. What comparison test are you referring to that the Cayenne just barely passed?

Now I know the truck crowd is all about nothing tows better than a truck. Well that isn't the case, especially from a braking and handling perspective. Trucks are one of the worst handling and braking vehicles on the road, and despite all the hype from marketing teams of the full size truck manufacturers, they are not well designed or engineered for towing, in particular, bumper pull trailers. What they are good at is hauling, not towing.

Vehicles like the Mercedes in the OPs photo, along with other SUVs like the Cayenne, Touareg, BMW, etc., steer, handle and brake way better than a truck of any sort, let alone the high, wallowing, 3/4 or 1 ton trucks on the road today. Hooking up a 7000 lb trailer does not suddenly improve a trucks poor handling or braking. In an emergency braking or steering maneuver, I will take any of the above SUVs over a truck hands down.

[wulfraat]

Large SUVs can be good. Trucks can be good too! Done both with our 30’!

Each has their +/-. Having a correct hitch setup (for either) is key [emoji4]

[OTRA15]

Originally Posted by wulfraat

Large SUVs can be good.
. . .
Having a correct hitch setup . . . is key
. . .

Originally Posted by thewarden

You are missing the point of the OPs original post. (How is this possible?) I was simply trying to say that it is possible, indeed very possible, for the pictured SUV to tow the trailer in the photo.
. . .

Exactly.

KISS.

[BayouBiker]

Originally Posted by thewarden

You are missing the point of the OPs original post. (How is this possible?) I was simply trying to say that it is possible, indeed very possible, for the pictured SUV to tow the trailer in the photo.

I and several others previously stated such. This has been established and I don't see anyone taking exception to it.

Originally Posted by thewarden

We could argue the merits of towing with a truck vs a properly equipped and set up SUV all day. The fact is, towing with an SUV is very viable, and in a lot of cases, preferable from a handling and braking perspective.

I don't know where you get that it is self evident a truck, with max vehicle weight of 10,000 lbs a payload capacity of say 2,900 lbs and a towing capacity of 17,000 lbs, will perform better at those test the Cayenne just barely passed when carrying the same combined payload of say 1,650 lb and towing a 7,700 lb trailer. What comparison test are you referring to that the Cayenne just barely passed?

People can argue over opinions but this is the point, you stated an opinion you held (it [the Cayenne] tows much more stable THAN ANY TRUCK WOULD...) that is unsupported by fact the laws of physics. I countered with fact based arguments that contradict your opinion. The Cayenne, when towing at its max rating is close to failing on steering response and sway control. I then went on to describe in layman's terms why that is the case relative to a vehicle with much higher towing and payload capacity. I also provided the reasons which are due to the competing inertia and uneven lateral forces of vehicle and trailer. It is always the case that a vehicle at its towing limits is less stable in one or more ways than a vehicle witch significant extra capacity. This is simply a fact of physics and feedback control systems. I can demonstrate this with the math all day long.

This does not mean SUVs are a poor choice when towing at their rated limits, again we all stipulated they are completely adequate. But the uninformed reader should have facts not opinions.

Originally Posted by thewarden

Now I know the truck crowd is all about nothing tows better than a truck. Well that isn't the case, especially from a braking and handling perspective. Trucks are one of the worst handling and braking vehicles on the road, and despite all the hype from marketing teams of the full size truck manufacturers, they are not well designed or engineered for towing, in particular, bumper pull trailers. What they are good at is hauling, not towing.

Phrases using the word "better" are also generally opinions and I'm not interested in the opinions of the truck crowd. Your SUV absolutely tows a 5000 lb trailer better than a 250 series. The math proves it easily. Trucks near their curb weight don't have high enough friction coefficients to stop well but put some weight on the rear axle and they improve significantly.

At 7500 lbs towing and 1700 lb net payload, 250 class trucks and SUVs have nearly identical emergency stopping distances but more importantly for towing, especially diesel equipped trucks, far outperform loaded SUVs in steep downhill deceleration and brake fade avoidance. Again the point is your SUV does not and cannot outperform ANY TRUCK in every situation.

All modern trucks rated for towing have at least Class IV hitches which are fastened directly to the frame same as your SUV. Trucks designed to pull loads over 12,000 lbs have class V hitches that are integral to the frame. The hitch is the frame and most often the bumper is bolted to it. Please don't imply trucks are pulling trailers with their bumpers.

The reader trying to decide on a tow vehicle should understand the trade offs. Even with a Cayenne, there is no free lunch, there are trade offs to be made.

Originally Posted by thewarden

Vehicles like the Mercedes in the OPs photo, along with other SUVs like the Cayenne, Touareg, BMW, etc., steer, handle and brake way better than a truck of any sort, let alone the high, wallowing, 3/4 or 1 ton trucks on the road today. Hooking up a 7000 lb trailer does not suddenly improve a trucks poor handling or braking. In an emergency braking or steering maneuver, I will take any of the above SUVs over a truck hands down.

Adding a modest payload to a heavy duty truck does improve braking performance, this is simply a fact. Adding payload and a trailer degrades handling of every production vehicle; the degree of degradation is the key. At 1600 lbs net payload and 7,700 towing, your Porsche has suffered significant degradation as explained before. A Ram 2500 Diesel or Ford F250 or similar GM Diesel has not suffered much at all.

Again the point is to ensure the casual reader understands the facts.

[TSHRED]

Here ya go.

[Belbein]

Originally Posted by smithcreek

"how in god's name is this possible? Yet another thread about the exact same subject with the exact same responses by the exact same people?"

And with the same readers, apparently. Come on, Smithcreek, admit it: You love these predictable debates.



And anyway, at least it's a break from the interminable Dodge vs. Ford or, God forbid!, gas vs. diesel.

[Protagonist]

Well, then, based on the new photo the answer to "How is this possible?" is "It's possible." Doesn't mean it's necessarily smart, or safe, for others to repeat the feat, but anything that HAS been done clearly CAN be done.

[ROBERT CROSS]

Originally Posted by Protagonist

Well, then, based on the new photo the answer to "How is this possible?" is "It's possible." Doesn't mean it's necessarily smart, or safe, for others to repeat the feat, but anything that HAS been done clearly CAN be done.

So it is...but just because you have an IQ doesn't mean you know how to use it.

*OoS


Bob
🇺🇸

[SteveSueMac]

DW has a great phrase: just because you CAN - doesn’t mean you SHOULD. [emoji3]

Look - with the right engineering - anything is possible. There’s a company in Canada setting up stuff like this a lot and while it’s not my cup of tea, they’ve been doing it for decades and if there were a string of deaths related to it, you’d have heard about it by now.

Me - I’m a fan of the 3/4T diesel and ProPride. Doesn’t make it the only or best way to do it. If I felt confident a sweet SUV could do everything I want for towing, I’d be all over it. Let’s be honest - the 2500 isn’t meant for short drives or fun to park [emoji3] - but it handles towing with great ease and capability.

Happy and safe camping to everyone!

[redhat200]

We told our 25 FT International serenity with the 2014 Dodge Durango Citadel Hemi . No problems whatsoever. And a luxury ride. There are many luxury SUVs that makes excellent tow vehicles. Always check the manufacturing recommendations. One of my other favorites is the discovery SUV, or the Lincoln navigator or aviator. Comfortable luxurious, Synonymous with the luxury of owning an airstream. I have to admit looks pretty handsome going down the road . Many folks come up have shared how nice our Dodge Durango looks going down road. Not opposed to trucks especially the Dodge Ram 1500 hemi Larimer . My best recommendation is drive the luxury SUVs you have interested in. Remember you’re going to be in your vehicle for MANY Hours & MILES. You want to be comfortable and meet your family‘s needs. Hope to see you down the road. Please share what you end up purchasing & why . Please include photos. Welcome to the Airstream community. Safe travels, live more, the journey is amazing !

[jcl]

Originally Posted by BayouBiker

Please don't imply trucks are pulling trailers with their bumpers..

I don’t see any reference to bumper mounted hitches. Bumper pull trailers are a class of product, as opposed to 5th wheel or gooseneck trailers. It simply means that the hitch is positioned behind the bumper. All Airstreams are bumper pull trailers.

[Northsite]

Circa 1972 I had a friend with a 33' Land Yacht that was pulled by his Cadillac. The hitch had a rod with a wheel to keep it from bottoming out.

[out of sight]

You mean like this one?

[dgsteele]

Originally Posted by TSHRED

I am researching Airstream trailers and vehicles to tow them.
I always thought a 250/2500 truck would be ideal for this sized trailer?

An SUV?Attachment 362360

I pulled with a 2015 Navigator rated to pull 9,000lbs. Largest difference I noticed when I switched to my truck was the stability of the trucks longer wheel base.

[LiamG]

Originally Posted by Ultraclassic

https://www.canamrv.ca/towing-expertise/

Properly set up to tow

Aerodynamics matter much more than weight when you’re towing at highway speeds. Vehicle tow capacities are calculated using boxy trailers, not something sleek like an airstream.

The brakes on the airstream will stop the trailer just fine, especially if you have two axles like this trailer does. The brakes on that sporty SUV are also probably larger than most half ton pickups.

Still, the extra power in a truck can be very helpful especially when you’re towing off road for boondocking, which is why we traded our Ford Flex for an expedition to pull our 34’ Excella.