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Old 03-08-2020, 03:29 PM   #41
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Is a 2500 series big enough?

I've handily towed my three axle 34 footer with 3 different Duramax powertrains since 2002. Engine never seems to be working too hard.
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Old 03-08-2020, 05:16 PM   #42
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I was wondering how deep in this thread it would be before someone mentioned Wheel Base , took until pg. 2 .

That said , Wheel base is very important when towing a longer trailer .
The SUV's don't have long enough w.b. for larger ( 25' + ) trailers . Except Suburban & older Expedition , even then 34' would be on the edge.

Until recently a trailer rental company was pairing Tahoes with 25' + Airstreams . Even with lots of towing instructions and video they turned people loose with that set up . They should have been paired with the Suburbans they had in their fleet .
The result was many wreaks where the combos were destroyed .
The Company no longer rents to people to drive themselves . They now only rent to other companies for events that they deliver and pick up. Most likely with their remaining Suburbans or large pickup.

Don't get me wrong but I've seen 1 ton duellies Jacknifed with long trailers . This on long straight roads . One caused by being cutoff and reacting the other the trailer started swaying and wagged the TV until the rig overturned , most likely the trailer was mis loaded.
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Old 03-08-2020, 05:26 PM   #43
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Not a good idea!!!
Why, based on what?
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Old 03-08-2020, 05:27 PM   #44
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Yes...and they also eat french fries, cheese curds topped with a brown gravy, along with a side of beaver tail.

Bob



The beer is good though....
And We have great health care.....
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Old 03-08-2020, 06:41 PM   #45
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From underneath each shelf

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Originally Posted by wulfraat View Post
Large SUVs can be good. Trucks can be good too! Done both with our 30í!

Each has their +/-. Having a correct hitch setup (for either) is key
Hi WR: Still hoping to plagiarize you shelves. Probably no time to do it now that I'm leaving at end of March. But maybe by late August trout trip out west.

Nothing to do with this thread, but saw that you were looking, and am hoping that this is a gentle reminder. Those pic's need to be from underneath, not on top. Not looking for beauty, looking for guts.

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Old 03-08-2020, 06:49 PM   #46
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And We have great health care.....
The cuisine demands it...

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Old 03-08-2020, 08:17 PM   #47
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My personal view is that a TV with a 1600 lb. payload, whether it’s an SUV or a truck, is a little light for pulling a 25’ or up Airstream. Because of the approximately 1000 lb. tongue weight the TV has to carry. Overloaded vehicles, whether Porsche’s or Rams, tend to handle poorly. So, there’s that. We pull an FC 27 with a half ton that has a rated payload of 1940 lbs. As others have mentioned, there are things that we carry—like a small generator and its fuel— that I certainly wouldn’t want inside my TV.
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Old 03-09-2020, 02:37 AM   #48
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I am researching Airstream trailers and vehicles to tow them.
I always thought a 250/2500 truck would be ideal for this sized trailer?

An SUV?Attachment 362360
LOL...
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Old 03-09-2020, 10:48 AM   #49
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Overloaded vehicles, whether Porscheís or Rams, tend to handle poorly.
What if these vehicles are not overloaded. In my case I tow a 27 FB Int. that has a properly set up WD/anti sway system and ALL my weights are within the vehicle manufacturer specified limits. It handles very well, indeed a lot better than my 3500 4x4 Duramax.

I agree, the downside is the payload for the SUV, it isn't great. But if I can stay within the SUVs payload, I will choose the SUV everytime because it is much more comfortable. I know this is subjective but when I am at my destination and driving around the area, I much prefer the ease of parking it to my 3500. And when it comes to braking and handling, hands down the SUV is better than the 3500. Having used both to tow the AS, that is not subjective.
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Old 03-09-2020, 11:30 AM   #50
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Having used both to tow the AS, that is not subjective.
Actually, it is subjective. As a former engineer, I believe that any statement that is not backed up by number crunching is opinion, and therefore subjective by definition.

I'm not arguing against (or for) your experience that your SUV is superior to your pickup for towing your trailer with regard to braking and handling, but if you change SUV, pickup, and/or trailer, your (and other people's) experience may be different. And therefore, your experience should still be considered subjective by others who are considering towing an Airstream with an SUV.

For example, unless the SUV and pickup being compared have identical engines, or at least have comparable torque and horsepower curves, and unless they have similar wheelbase lengths for stability and weight distribution, it's an apples-and-oranges comparison, and the comparison needs to be made all over again for someone else's choice of pickup and SUV for towing their trailer. A different SUV may be under-powered compared to a different pickup (or vice versa) and thus take longer to accelerate to highway speeds, even if it has a shorter braking distance. And a given SUV is likely to have a shorter wheelbase than a given pickup, which may make the SUV more agile when trying to park the trailer in a campground or driveway because of its tighter turning radius, but the shorter wheelbase may adversely affect stability when towing at highway speeds.
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Old 03-09-2020, 11:35 AM   #51
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Protagonist - serious question not bait of any kind....

Isnít the braking part of the equation tested by measuring stopping distance? Say 3 runs with 3/4T truck and trailer from 65 to 0, capture the average stopping distance, compare with 3 runs with SUV and trailer, capture that average and compare?

There are probably some handling measures too.

I get your point though - absent measures and testing, everything is subjective to some degree...
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Old 03-09-2020, 12:06 PM   #52
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Protagonist - serious question not bait of any kind....

Isn’t the braking part of the equation tested by measuring stopping distance? Say 3 runs with 3/4T truck and trailer from 65 to 0, capture the average stopping distance, compare with 3 runs with SUV and trailer, capture that average and compare?
No offense taken. It's a valid question. Empirical evidence, gained by performing tests and doing measurements, is a perfectly acceptable method of number crunching.

I'm just saying, one man's experience pulling a given trailer with a given pickup vs. a given SUV doesn't necessarily translate to a general statement comparing any other SUV vs. any other pickup when towing any other trailer. And that braking distance and ride comfort are only part of the overall SUV vs. pickup comparison. There are other factors that Airstream owners may consider to be as important (or more important) than stopping distance and ride comfort. Acceleration, stability, turning radius, payload capacity, and even fuel economy can all factor into the choice and might need to be compared (depending on what's important to the Airstream owner in question). I highly doubt that any one vehicle would get top marks in every category, or else everyone would already be using that vehicle.
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Old 03-09-2020, 12:21 PM   #53
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I donít see any reference to bumper mounted hitches. Bumper pull trailers are a class of product, as opposed to 5th wheel or gooseneck trailers. It simply means that the hitch is positioned behind the bumper. All Airstreams are bumper pull trailers.
Exactly. But for those that would pick a nit, how about the reference ball hitch trailers?
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Old 03-09-2020, 01:29 PM   #54
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Wheel base is very important when towing a longer trailer.
Absolutely. Increasing the wheelbase will increase the tow vehicle's yaw inertia, as will its weight, and the more inertia the tow vehicle has in relation to the inertia of the trailer the more stable and safer the rig will be. This relative inertia is by far the most important parameter in determining the handling stability of the rig.
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Old 03-09-2020, 03:04 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glenritas View Post
I was wondering how deep in this thread it would be before someone mentioned Wheel Base , took until pg. 2 .

That said , Wheel base is very important when towing a longer trailer .
The SUV's don't have long enough w.b. for larger ( 25' + ) trailers . Except Suburban & older Expedition , even then 34' would be on the edge.
I wouldn't focus so much on wheelbase by itself. It is but one component. When we think about wheelbase, we should also think about rear overhang. One way to wrap both of those into a metric to compare between vehicles is to calculate the ratio of overhang (rear axle to hitch) to wheelbase. This acknowledges wheelbase, but also brings in the overhang. A slightly longer wheelbase, paired with a longer rear overhang, isn't necessarily an improvement.

It isn't a coincidence that the SUVs most often cited as having very good handling when paired with heavier trailers have very short rear overhangs. Or that one of the steps taken by the professionals when optimizing a tow setup is to shorten the distance from the vehicle to the hitch ball by modifying the ball mount.
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Old 03-09-2020, 05:32 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by Protagonist View Post
Actually, it is subjective. As a former engineer, I believe that any statement that is not backed up by number crunching is opinion, and therefore subjective by definition.

I'm not arguing against (or for) your experience that your SUV is superior to your pickup for towing your trailer with regard to braking and handling, but if you change SUV, pickup, and/or trailer, your (and other people's) experience may be different. And therefore, your experience should still be considered subjective by others who are considering towing an Airstream with an SUV.

For example, unless the SUV and pickup being compared have identical engines, or at least have comparable torque and horsepower curves, and unless they have similar wheelbase lengths for stability and weight distribution, it's an apples-and-oranges comparison, and the comparison needs to be made all over again for someone else's choice of pickup and SUV for towing their trailer. A different SUV may be under-powered compared to a different pickup (or vice versa) and thus take longer to accelerate to highway speeds, even if it has a shorter braking distance. And a given SUV is likely to have a shorter wheelbase than a given pickup, which may make the SUV more agile when trying to park the trailer in a campground or driveway because of its tighter turning radius, but the shorter wheelbase may adversely affect stability when towing at highway speeds.
I guess (not tested it) but if you want similar drive trains,. Ford F150 with. 3.5 eco boost, vs Ford Flex with that same engine, both can pull an AS.

See here the Flex in Action https://www.canamrv.ca/blog/post/hit...ned-style-434/

Cheers Ultra
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Old 03-09-2020, 05:36 PM   #57
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https://www.canamrv.ca/blog/post/hit...s-hills-power/

Another great article about towing with smaller TV
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Old 03-09-2020, 07:43 PM   #58
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Click image for larger version

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I think they need a bigger truck ⚖️
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Old 03-09-2020, 08:16 PM   #59
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Attachment 362962

I think they need a bigger truck ⚖️
Yeah, then they could just load the trailer into the bed of the pickup!
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Old 03-09-2020, 09:00 PM   #60
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Some SUV feedback.

Thanks to all for the engaging discussion: a really good way to learn!

My TV is a Cayenne rated at 605 lb tongue weight, 7717 lb towing capacity, 6328 lb GVWR and 14,054 lb GCWR (Gross Combination Weight Rating) (rated at sea level).

My trailer is a 2016 23FB because the published hitch weight is 454 lbs, base weight (w/ LP and batteries) is 4806 lbs and it is 8í wide. GVWR is 6000 lbs (6300 lbs in Canada??).
A 25FB would be Ďvery niceí but hitch weight is too high for me at 837 lbs.

Highway scales:
6000 lb: TV with 2 passengers, basic camping kit and trailer attached;
4760 lb: Trailer with tongue weight on TV.
------
10,760 lbs GCW.

TV front and rear axil loads are also within TV ratings.

One limitation of this set-up is extra camping accessories and sporting gear.

Yes, more cargo weight in the trailer is possible (subject to the impact on the hitch weight) but itís not always practical to put bigger items in there.
And, the SUV has limited extra cargo weight capacity and storage space.

Next time at the scales will measure net hitch loads on the TV front and rear axils with and without the trailer attached.

BTW, maximum weights are at sea level. Engine output decreases with increasing altitude. This may decrease the GCWR (TV-trailer combination) at higher elevations.

Thanks many again to the AS community for sharing.
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