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Old 03-14-2008, 08:51 PM   #21
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Thanks again everyone,

To Steve in Centennial: Thank you for your offer to see your AS. I am presently in Montrose for several weeks or I'd come see it.

I also spoke with the Land Rover dealer and he said to stay under 5000 lbs. He thought the Bambi would be a piece of cake. This might be a little small for me though. I'd like to use this vehicle because its comfortable AND has a back-up camera. He said I probably would need some kind of mirror extensions. I really don't what to trade vehicles if I can help it. It is a 4.4L and 300 horsepower. What do you think? Maybe a 23' ?

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Old 03-14-2008, 09:29 PM   #22
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what year is the land rover?

land rover ratings...

the towing capacity for the 4.4l models is around 7500 lbs...

the gcwr is 14000 lbs. so again the land rover has the CAPACITY for a 23.

the wheel base is short, but with a proper hitch and set up the rover will work.

yes mirrors are needed, along with a brake controller and hitch and adequate receiver.

i would ask the dealer person specifically "have U ever towed an rv with a rover?"

his answer will likely be NO and his advice is mostly useless.

i wouldn't want to tow with a land rover (not enough storage room inside) but some folks do.

depending on year and condition, the rover could be traded for a NEW toyota tundra truck, or other 1/2 domestic trucks,

in fact 3-5 year old fords or dodges (or the other one) would be a great choice for a 23.

these would all pull the 23 EASILY, and cost LESS to buy or maintain than the rover.

you cannot rely on SALESPEOPLE to sort out buying, equipping and towing.

there issues are TOO IMPORTANT to simply trust them to others.

there are some special set up issues that are specific to the rover (wiring, lights, brake controller) to deal with.

also a robust receiver is needed, not the stock rr one.

a camera is nice but many of us have learned to connect without cameras and solo.

the camera is basically USELESS once you are connected and towing.

you need to do the homework. IF you've never rv camped, driven a motor home or pulled a trailer...

you have lots to learn. it's all doable it can all be fun too, but most of the work and decision making is yours.

all of the true things that i am about to tell you are shameless lies. l.b.j.

we are here on earth to fart around. don't let anybody tell you any different. k.v.
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Old 03-14-2008, 09:34 PM   #23
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I tow a 19' Bambi CCD with my VW Touareg, which is very similar to your Land Rover. I have had not problems, even when climbing the high mountain passes. The Bambi is only 4200 pounds GVWR, which is to say fully loaded with water, gear and beer. A 19' is a GREAT size trailer for just one. the 23' is a nice trailer, I too walked thru it at the Denver show, but IMHO is more trailer than you need for one. Save you money, save your fuel and buy smaller. You can always sell and buy a USED 23' later down the road.
Chris and Christina- Boerne, TX / Evergreen, CO - TAC TX-7
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Old 03-15-2008, 07:08 AM   #24
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Help with what length of Airstream to buy

Greetings Stephanie!

Welcome to the Forums from another Free Wheeler (Airstreamer who travels Solo).

Originally Posted by s.noble
Since I am alone, I will have to be able to do the hitching, backing up, taking care of everything etc. on my own, maybe with a friend along from time to time.
There are a fairly large number of Free Wheelers in the Airstream community and there are a variety of methods and devices that can be employed to make all of the routine trailering chores an easy part of the daily routine. There are several versions of hitch-helper mirrors that allow you to see the receiver and coupler as you back your tow vehicle into position -- the unaware in the campgrounds will often stare in amazement as you align the hitch without further human intervention. Backing is the other function that can be a bit challenging for the Free Wheeler -- for this operation, the best advice is usually to get out of the tow vehicle frequently to check your progress. Often, when just traveling and stopping for a single night, I will opt for a pull-through spot to simplify the entire process.

Originally Posted by s.noble
Anyway, I really like idea of a 19' Safari but I've been told it is actually easier to back up with a trailer that has double axles, which start at 23'. I was also told the 23' trailers tow easier.
As you can see from my profile, I own both a 6.0 Metre (20 foot) and an Overlander (26 foot). It is true that the single axle coach will react more quickly to inputs from the tow vehicle and can be a bit more "bouncy" on rough highways. The tandem axle coaches tend to ride a bit more smoothly and react a little less quickly to the tow vehicle input when backing. The learning curve, however, is similar; and once you become familiar with your rig you won't notice a tremendous difference.

The primary reason that I chose a tandem axle coach as my first purchase was the concern for the consequences of a blowout while underway (I had a frightening experience with a Skyline Nomad single axle coach in 1982). After becoming acquainted with several Airstream owners with single axle coaches, my fears about adverse consequences (stability related) of a blowout were resolved which resulted in my purchase of the Minuet 6.0 Metre. Another benefit of the single axle coach is that you only have one pair of tires to maintain as well as only one pair of brakes and bearings to maintain.

My experience has been that the ease of towing is less a function of the the coach's length and more an issue of how well the coach is matched to the tow vehicle (size and power requirements) as well as how well the hitch and sway control have been setup. Both of my coaches have had their hitches setup by the service department of a dealer who is very particular about precise adjustment of the hitch (I am running Reese Straight-Line hitches with dual cam sway control).

Good luck with your research and decision!

Kevin D. Allen
WBCCI (Lifetime Member)/VAC #7864
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Old 03-15-2008, 09:36 AM   #25
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"I do have the big Range Rover ......"

Check out the information regards to how long a trailer you should tow based on wheel base at:

RV Towing Tips - How long?

With a WB of 113" the max should be about 21 feet.

Also, the max tongue weight of the RR is about 550lbs.

Just a thought.
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Old 03-15-2008, 10:07 AM   #26
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Do not buy TOO Small for first AS

As newbies ourselves, we looked at the single axle smaller AS and then went to the double axle 23 foot. Never have towing before does give you a lack of confidence in your "ability". If you have trouble parallel parking, you will have trouble backing up an AS 16 footer or 30 footer. Take the offer to check out the AS in Evergreen, Colorado... Wish we had found this forum earlier.

Now we are looking to upgrade some day to the 25 foot Airstream as a perfect fit for our off road traveling. Any longer would make it tough to fit into National Forest gravel roads and "hunters" trails to open areas to park. If you are planning to travel only to RV parks, you CAN tow in and out with minimal effort. Our 23 footer is now outfitted to our needs and it will be difficult to add three feet of trailer and work out the "bugs" in outfitting again.

I would suggest trading in the Range Rover for a Toyota Land Cruiser and have money left over. Just a heavier vehicle and they come standard with the backup camera, etc., etc., etc.. You also will experience an effortless travel with the 25 foot and smaller trailer in tow. The 5.7 liter engine can pull up to the continental divide with power to spare!

Ask Windish RV to hook you up for a practice tow around the block. They will take you around the corner after setting your brake controller and jump out of the driver's seat. You will sweat profusely the first several miles, but after that you are no longer a newbie. You have been getting excellent advice from the long time AS owners so far. You will discover that after you buy that first Airstream, you could have handled the next size up without a problem. After 24,000 miles of towing in two years has given me a new perspective on living in a portable apartment.
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Old 03-15-2008, 11:21 AM   #27
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I appreciate all the advice. It's interesting Ray mentioned the Toyota Land Cruiser. I was just checking it out online. That's a good possibly since there is a Toyota dealer in Montrose where I spend a great deal of time. No LR dealer here and if I were to breakdown in Timbukto, chances of finding a Toyota dealer is far better than a Land Rover dealer. Last question on vehicles and I'll quit. If I'm going to trade in the RR anyway would I be better off going for a truck. Would the Toyota Land Cruiser be as good as a truck? I really like comfort.

Range Rover Stats '06 HSe

Layout: front engine, 4WD
Engine: 305 hp, 315 lb-ft of torque, 4.4L DOHC 32-valve V8
Transmission: 6-spd auto
Brakes (front/rear): disc/disc, ABS
Cargo Volume (seats up/folded): 990 / 1,760 L (35.0 / 62.0 cu-ft)
Direct Competitors: Audi Q7 V8, Cadillac Escalade, Infiniti QX45, Jeep Grand Cherokee / Commander, Lexus GX 470 / LX 470, Lincoln Navigator, Mercedes-Benz G-Class, Porsche Cayenne S / Cayenne Turbo, Volkswagen Touareg V8
Web Site: Land Rover - Welcome to Land Rover
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Old 03-15-2008, 12:32 PM   #28
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trading the rover for a cruiser is a zero sum game, and really a negative move...

a tiny bit longer wheel base and LESS TOWING CAPACITY than the rover...

besides it is STILL a luxo suv, with all the issues they 'carry' for towing...

and the cruiser is a less nimble daily driver

it's not unusual to be all over the map when first looking at 'streamin...

but ONE theme that is coming through here is that...

first time, new 'stream buyers OFTEN get a larger trailer, SOON after the first one.

i agree the rover has a short wheelbase, but using a haha would negate that issue...

still a 1/2 ton truck in any flavor would be a better towing tool...

Annual Towing Guides

all of the true things that i am about to tell you are shameless lies. l.b.j.

we are here on earth to fart around. don't let anybody tell you any different. k.v.
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Old 03-15-2008, 12:37 PM   #29
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The truck's a truck

The Tundra is a BIG truck - powerful and capable. But, IMHO, not built for comfort. The Land Cruiser is a heavy SUV built more for comfort than a the Tundra but with a considerably higher price tag as well. Also, think about if you will need "enclosed" storage (Rover, Land Cruiser) - vs open bed storage.
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Old 03-16-2008, 12:16 PM   #30
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Tundra 4x4 and Land Cruiser 4x4

Pcasa is right. The new 2007-08 Tundra are BIG. So are the Fords, Chevy's and Dodges... (You need a ladder for the F250 Kings Ranch). When I went to the new Tundra from my 2006, it was a BOAT. I am over the increase in cab space and other than SIZE, but like the tow vehicle benefits in the automatic transmission, disc brakes and larger engine. I did not buy the larger engine for economy, but am surprised that the mileage at elevations above 5,000 feet... I get better gas mileage than my 4.7L Tundra (now- 15 to 18 mpg with the 5.7L using Regular). I put a shell on the Tundra and have 6 feet of dry storage.

The 2008 Land Cruiser is a bit heavier than the Tundra (not looking at the specifications at the moment, so...) and has every option known to Toyota and you pay dearly for one (low $60). Resale is EXCELLENT. The full time 4 wheel drive is a big plus and will out perform a pickup 4x4 on tight curves as well as off road. The same engine and transmission as the Tundra. Both drive like armored vehicles, but I feel safer in the Land Cruiser when you see the driving habits of other people on the roads. Gas mileage is running 15 to 16 mpg, but the wife has a lead foot... You can actually have a rough idea of mileage per gallon using the computer option on both vehicles to see how you are doing. It is pretty accurate.

Compared to the 1994 (straight 6 cylinder) and 2000 V8 era Land Cruisers, the new ones are in a class of their own. They are comfortable, over priced and when we get a 100,000 miles on this one, maybe the next ones will not disappoint as well.
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Old 03-16-2008, 01:26 PM   #31
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Go to your Chevy dealer and look at a Suburban. If you don't want a truck - see the original SUV! You can get a Burb trimmed out like a plush recliner on wheels. With only two seats or the third seat folded down, there's enough inside storage for two coffins (an undertaker pointed that out to me).

I would get a newer one, as the 2003 I had was a GAS HOG! I traded up to a 2008 Diesel Silverado (quad cab, long bed) and like it even better - plus I actually got 14.8 mpg towing last time out.

PS. I'm on year 3 as a Rivette - woman towing alone. I've actually bought a tow vehicle that could pull the biggest A/S they make, and frankly in another year or two I'll be looking at the 27 FB (or 30FB if the rumors I hear are true).

One thing I would do if I were in your place is look at used units - fairly new ones. You'll be surprised how many folks upsize after a couple of years. Go to the Classifieds here and you'll see many units 2,3, 4 years old which will require minimum make ready efforts (perhaps new tires or battery).

Advice you've already gotten about really thinking over floor plans and your lifestyle is great, as is the advice to visit rallies and meet other Airstreamers - is just priceless. I was prepared to buy a 19 footer for my first one. Then I visited my sister and for my birthday we went to the factory in Jackson Center Ohio. One look at the 22 FB and I instantly knew that one was made for me. In point of fact I actually stored my 25'er for a week and went out in the the 22. I'm back home in the 25, but I may have an opportunity to buy a business up in the mountains.... If that happens, I'll be putting the 22 footer in the parking lot of the business, adding a 30 amp exterior plug, and using it as my second home.

Paula Ford
Today is a gift, that's why they call it the present.
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Old 05-27-2008, 11:15 PM   #32
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Ok.. lets be truthful... get rid of the Range Rover (not enough power and you might be left behind in the mountains) and get a true tow vehicle..a Ford, Chevy or Dodge. I have a 2008 F250 with a stair in the bed (came with the truck) and I feel comfortable that I can tow any Airstream I desire...
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Old 05-27-2008, 11:53 PM   #33
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Stephanie: To change the subject again, Which kind of windsurfer do you ride, a cruiser or a jumping board, or kites? You don't buy the old wide "Star" learning board which you grow out of in a week unless you are carrying the keg and camping gear across the lake. Are you using shaped skis or straight? Not the kiddos learning ski.
I bet there is a way to find out which 'stream will work better for you after the first learning curve period. I was going to buy a sailboat once, but I bought a Windsurfer to learn to sail and watch the bigger boats while I decided which boat I wanted.
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