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Old 01-24-2010, 09:21 AM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by utee94 View Post
...I'm a fan of the shell-on floor replacement. In many ways it's more difficult, but when workspace is limited (or, zero in my case), there's really not another option...
-Marcus
Marcus,
I agree, my big concern came from some of the problems in other post that come out of removing the shell like not lining up, shell blowing over, etc. General feeling that I got from reading other posts was either way it was a big job but if your outside with a non-level workspace it may be worse to remove the shell. If I had a big garage that I could hang the shell from I probably would have pulled the whole thing off. I just don't have the space. I was able to get my first sheet of the floor in. The most useful tool for this was the 5lb sludge hammer. Unfortunately the bigger hammer approach was necessary to slide the board back.
Russ
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Old 01-24-2010, 09:24 AM   #62
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I built an entirely new cabinet base in my rear bath, and installed a SS "sink" in it.
Wow! very nice, you are setting the bar high for me. I like the sink basins like that.
Russ
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Old 01-24-2010, 09:25 AM   #63
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Marcus,
I agree, my big concern came from some of the problems in other post that come out of removing the shell like not lining up, shell blowing over, etc. General feeling that I got from reading other posts was either way it was a big job but if your outside with a non-level workspace it may be worse to remove the shell. If I had a big garage that I could hang the shell from I probably would have pulled the whole thing off. I just don't have the space. I was able to get my first sheet of the floor in. The most useful tool for this was the 5lb sludge hammer. Unfortunately the bigger hammer approach was necessary to slide the board back.
Russ
Very nice. And yes, that back 4' section was very tough for me as well. I had to pry and sledge the heck out of it. It chipped up the edges of my beautifully polyurethaned boards a little bit, but some filler and more poly took care of that. It's all hidden under a skimcoat of Ardex and the VCT flooring, but I'd spent enough time treating that plywood that I wanted it to be perfect under there!
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Old 01-24-2010, 09:31 AM   #64
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Tailights for '65

Post 38 was the before...here is the after. I used glass, west system epoxy (lots of sanding and filling), primed it, and painted it with an automotive rustoleum aluminum spray paint. I'm pretty happy with how it turned out. I thought I may need to scrap these when I started so it exceeded my expectations!!
Russ
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Old 01-24-2010, 09:42 AM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by utee94 View Post
...It chipped up the edges of my beautifully polyurethaned boards a little bit, but some filler and more poly took care of that. It's all hidden under a skimcoat of Ardex and the VCT flooring, but I's spent enough time treating that plywood that I wanted it to be perfect under there!
I've coated the whole back with the west system epoxy and rounded the edges top and bottom with a router and that really helped. I also went to a slightly thicker 3/4" vs. the original 5/8". The epoxy really stiffened up the edges and made it slide in a little easier. I wasn't expecting this to be a benefit but it was, I just don't want the back to ever rot out again. I'll have to check out the Ardex stuff..thanks,
Russ
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Old 01-24-2010, 09:53 AM   #66
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I've coated the whole back with the west system epoxy and rounded the edges top and bottom with a router and that really helped. I also went to a slightly thicker 3/4" vs. the original 5/8". The epoxy really stiffened up the edges and made it slide in a little easier. I wasn't expecting this to be a benefit but it was, I just don't want the back to ever rot out again. I'll have to check out the Ardex stuff..thanks,
Russ
Yup, I used the 3/4 as well. I can tell the difference between the give in the 5/8 (some) that's still in the front half of the trailer, and the give in the 3/4 (none) that I used to replace the rotten old stuff.

Depending on the top-flooring you use, you may or may not need anything like Ardex. But it did provide a smooth and level subfloor for my VCT to go over.

The tail lights look fantastic. Really, better than original IMO. Very nice work.

-Marcus
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Old 01-24-2010, 01:07 PM   #67
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end floor

Quote:
Originally Posted by JSTOTT View Post
Marcus,
I agree, my big concern came from some of the problems in other post that come out of removing the shell like not lining up, shell blowing over, etc. General feeling that I got from reading other posts was either way it was a big job but if your outside with a non-level workspace it may be worse to remove the shell. If I had a big garage that I could hang the shell from I probably would have pulled the whole thing off. I just don't have the space. I was able to get my first sheet of the floor in. The most useful tool for this was the 5lb sludge hammer. Unfortunately the bigger hammer approach was necessary to slide the board back.
Russ
Russ, from the pics it appears you put the left side in ,then dropped the right down and wedged in from the rear with sledge?
How did you take the measurement accurately for the toilet and the vent hole to the black tank?Did you use a template for the shape then added the width of the channel all around when transfered to the ply?
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Old 01-24-2010, 01:17 PM   #68
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I was thinking of routing down the 3/4 ply to a little over 5/8 the width of the channel,then routing in half the end the width of the crossmember.On the second sheet do the same so it becomes a half lap joint on top of the crossmember.Then install Ebolts through the lap.I need some imput on this.
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Old 01-24-2010, 02:36 PM   #69
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Half lap

I'm not sure what you mean by "then routing in half the end the width of the crossmember".

If you think about someone stepping on the plywood, just off the crossmember, I'd be concerned that you are close to having just 3/8" of the plywood supporting most of the weight. This could obviously result in a split. If the half-lap is very narrow, it doesn't do much good. If it's exactly the width of the crossmember, it's probably the weakest thing you can do.

You might want to consider a wider half lap and bond it well with West Systems. That way, you will reconstruct the strength of the plywood.

Buying epoxy by the gallon yet?

John
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Old 01-24-2010, 04:53 PM   #70
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Quote:
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....How did you take the measurement accurately for the toilet and the vent hole to the black tank?Did you use a template for the shape then added the width of the channel all around when transfered to the ply?
My rear end plywood was a mess when I removed it, so I was unable to use the rear plywood as a template. It was mostly dry rotted and crumbled in my hands.

I brought new meaning to the saying measure twice, cut once, and measured 4 or 5 times. I set the tank up in the trailer and measured locations from the inside of the channels, double checked it by laying the tank against the plywood as a final check before cutting in the workshop. Since my rear bath area is going to be modified a little, the actual location of the tank and respective holes were not critical in relation to the other items in the bathroom. (cabinets, fiberglass seat, etc.) I did want to shift the toilet to the right as far as possible without interfering with the frame and still leaving room for some insulation.

Russ
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Old 01-24-2010, 05:40 PM   #71
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I was thinking of routing down the 3/4 ply to a little over 5/8 the width of the channel,then routing in half the end the width of the crossmember.On the second sheet do the same so it becomes a half lap joint on top of the crossmember.Then install Ebolts through the lap.I need some imput on this.
Steve,

John had some good comments, I do plan to use the west system epoxy or a good glue between the sheets of plywood and the lapping sheets of plywood. Someone on another post mentioned the idea of using biscuits between the sheets, I do have a jointer so I may do that to prevent the boards from popping up.

Routing down at the crossmembers may be necessary if you only need to replace a couple of sheets and still keep the floor level but if you need to replace all of your sheets it may be an unnecessary complication. When I checked the thicknesses of the original wood against the 3/4" that I bought the thickness was only 0.086" thicker (not a true 1/8") and decided not to try route at the crossmembers and edges to change the thickness.

If you are doing a rabbet type of joint between the 3/4" plywood this could create a concern because the edges of your sheets of plywood won't all line up on the crossmembers by the time you add your last sheet. I would also echo John's concern about reduced thickness at the joint.

If you don't plan to rabbet the 3/4" ply against each other and your only rabbetting to enable the small support board underneath this to fit it is probably not a problem. Going back to my earlier statement if you need to replace all of your sheets it may be an unnecessary complication, 0.086" thicker seemed to squeeze in just fine for me.

Russ
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Old 01-24-2010, 07:29 PM   #72
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one more thought

Steve,

Another thought. If you bond too long a "seamless" length of plywood, you lose the effect of having expansion joints where the old panels butted together.

John
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Old 01-25-2010, 06:52 AM   #73
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Steve,

Another thought. If you bond too long a "seamless" length of plywood, you lose the effect of having expansion joints where the old panels butted together.

John
This is a really good point. The factory built mine with EBs holding down the individual sheets to the framing x-members below, and the only thing tying the sheets together were some corrugated steel fasteners. This held up well for forty-six years and there was no evidence of separation or cracking of the top-flooring material.

I'm not sure I'd go out of my way to make a solid bond between those individual plywood sheets. They seem to require some amount of flex between them in order to move with the frame below.

-Marcus
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Old 01-25-2010, 08:00 AM   #74
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And to further this... even with my rusted out crossmembers holding elevator joints to nothing, the floor panels didn't come up at the joints. They stayed flush. I think you might be making more work for yourself with the rabbiting.

Great work by the way!
Marc
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Old 01-25-2010, 08:31 PM   #75
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Floor connections

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...the only thing tying the sheets together were some corrugated steel fasteners...
-Marcus
You guys are giving me lots to think about.

The sheets of plywood on mine were mounted a little different than yours Marcus. The sheets were connected with a thin plywood strip about 1/4" thick by 3" wide along to lay on the crossmember. They recessed the crossmember 1/4" to allow it to fit. The strip was stapled and glued to each 4x8 sheet from the underside. and the e-bolt held it all down.

Russ
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Old 01-26-2010, 05:50 AM   #76
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plywood does not need expansion joints. the wood used is laminated with alternating grain, thus eliminating expansion. Although it will swell is saturated with water. I have the same type of frame where the cross-member that lies under each joint is recessed. Mine were more like 1/2" recessed. I cut 6" wide strips of 1/2" marine grade plywood and attached that to the appropriate cross members. then I put three rows of EV bolts to tie each sheet to the 1/2 strip and the all three pieces to the cross members. You can see the reflections on the bolt heads at the seams.



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Old 01-31-2010, 10:38 AM   #77
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Low Cost Back Door Solution

We were missing the back door on our trailer, which was funny, as I drove down the highway taking it home the toilet was the first thing you saw. It looked like the toilet was going to fall out any minute. I had to strap it in so I didn't loose it. We priced a new door and it was going to cost almost 1/2 the total cost of our new trailer, I decided I needed another solution. I included a picture of what it looked like from behind going down the highway back in December. Not very pretty...

The door was some leftover sheet from patching holes 0.04" thick. I buck riveted C-channel around the perimeter and then pop-riveted a sheet in the back and insulated the inside (about $60 in materials including the sheet) I was also able to match the locks to all the other doors. It was a little flimsy before getting the back sheet on. Once I added the back sheet, the door is now very stiff. I could have probably done more by the lock area, but compared to the other doors, I'm happy with it.
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Old 01-31-2010, 11:13 AM   #78
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Quote:
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We were missing the back door on our trailer, which was funny, as I drove down the highway taking it home the toilet was the first thing you saw. It looked like the toilet was going to fall out any minute. I had to strap it in so I didn't loose it. We priced a new door and it was going to cost almost 1/2 the total cost of our new trailer, I decided I needed another solution. I included a picture of what it looked like from behind going down the highway back in December. Not very pretty...

The door was some leftover sheet from patching holes 0.04" thick. I buck riveted C-channel around the perimeter and then pop-riveted a sheet in the back and insulated the inside (about $60 in materials including the sheet) I was also able to match the locks to all the other doors. It was a little flimsy before getting the back sheet on. Once I added the back sheet, the door is now very stiff. I could have probably done more by the lock area, but compared to the other doors, I'm happy with it.
From your photo, it appears that the trailer may have rear end separation.

If that's the case, you will probably lose the new door.

Check the rear door frame, where it's riveted into the shell.

Typically, the bottom corners pull loose, when rear end separataion takes place. That then enlarges the door opening. When that happens, the door falls out when hitting a good bump.

Andy
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Old 01-31-2010, 11:31 AM   #79
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From your photo, it appears that the trailer may have rear end separation.
Appears? What picture (in which post) & what signs do you observe?

How should this current observation be handled compared to your comments to JSTOTT in the first 12 posts of this thread?
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Old 01-31-2010, 04:51 PM   #80
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Rear end separation?

Thank you Andy,
We just got the rear floor panel installed and it is partially bolted down. We took your advice and are doing the recommended reinforcements. We could find no evidence of rear end separation before doing the repairs but figured it was worth the investment to reinforce it anyways! Thank you for the suggestions and drawings. Would have loved to purchase one of your doors as I am certain they are very well made but, budget constraints required creativity and another solution.
The new door fit very well and we don't think it will fall out, at least we hope not!
I will take a picture of our proud new compartment door installed on the trailer when it is light out. I think it looks great, better than I could hoped or expected. Hubby does great work! (Definitely biased.)
Jennifer
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