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Old 04-10-2020, 09:02 AM   #1
1 Rivet Member
 
1966 26' Overlander
Gainesville , Florida
Join Date: Apr 2020
Posts: 8
1966 Overlander

The story goes...

My friend showed up at my property with “an airstream”. We both love the classics and this was another thing to gawk at. I have always loved RVs/travel trailers, but have never used one. I have some experience in home remodeling/construction, but have never worked with aluminum or a travel trailer...but of course i told him “i wanted to help fix it up...” The timing was not perfect as i was starting a new job and a renovation our kitchen/flooring...so i knew i had to put it on the back burner. 2.5 years later, i am into a “shell-on” restoration.

I cannot believe how well these things were built!! The trailer LOVES someone tightening her screws or cleaning the grime and gunk off. Nothing i’ve run into tells me that the trailer is too far gone.

Like many others on this forum, our first goal was to have a cool metal tent to tow around...4-5 goals later i have the bottom interior skins off (due to rear floor rot) and i’m about to start the dirty work. I have many great ideas on how to make it comfortable, but first we need to dry it in because she leaks like... an Airstream 😆. I have cleaned most of the exterior and scraped the PO’s silicone caulk jobs from most of the windows/vents. I have Trempro 635 gray to fill most of the seams. And i like the “2-tape technique” for keeping the overflow off the exterior. Like i said, i have never worked with rivets, so they are intimidating me a little...but i have a selection and am going to practice before i put any on the trailer. That being said, i would like to keep the existing exterior buck rivets in place for the duration.

Phew.... this is a lot to write down!

Main pearls:

* I have a wire wheel and POR 15 for the exposed frame.

* The Corning windows first grabbed my attention and i have already tackled most of those tasks. New rubber seals, clips, cranks, etc...also replaced a curved piece on the rear street side (PO had a piece of metal in place of the window). Still have to install the front window since they have the AC there...i may keep that since its almost summer here in Florida.

*What’s the debate on rivets vs metal screws??

* Planning on running new 14/2 romex for all of the electrical inside. Shooting for a 30 amp plug-in option at first. May add a generator then batteries as we get around to it

* Planning on moving the bathroom to right in front of the street side wheel well and using a Curve porta potti like the Caravanners across the pond.


I will stop typing and just post some pictures to keep everyone’s attention 😎
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Old 04-10-2020, 09:39 AM   #2
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1966 26' Overlander
Gainesville , Florida
Join Date: Apr 2020
Posts: 8
More Pics...

Here are some other pictures of the project...

I’ll get more since half of them are rotated wrong when uploaded...
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Old 04-10-2020, 09:56 AM   #3
CC
 
1972 27' Overlander
Heinsburg , AB
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 243
Welcome SlorideFL. What a sweet project; aren't these trailers something else? You are making some good progress; getting a sound foundation is most important. I look forward to seeing your progress. Thanks for posting all of the pictures. Good luck.
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Old 04-10-2020, 10:03 AM   #4
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1972 25' Tradewind
1976 31' Excella 500
1974 31' Excella 500
1975 24' Argosy 24
Denver , Colorado
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 1,106
Welcome! First things first: there is no debate. Rivets! Don't use screws. And rivets are easier than you expect. Just make sure to use aluminum ones (not steel or even steel shank) or you will have rust and corrosion issues. http://beahmstream.com/rivets

Sounds like you already found TremPro 635, so that's good. It's my favorite goo! http://beahmstream.com/all-kinds-of-...-leak-sealers/

Don't use solid core Romex, you need stranded. They don't carry it at the big box stores (unless you purchase a single strand of wire), so you'll have to order it, but it's the same price, so no worries. I advise buying it already in conduit. Also remember you'll be running two separate electrical systems (12v and 120v). I would suggest making as much of it 12v as possible (all lights, entertainment, extra outlets, etc.).

There's a lot of good info. here on the forums, but it's sometimes hard to find. Another good source for info. is to find a couple of good restoration blogs to follow the paths of those who've gone before you.

Best of luck! It's an adventure!
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Old 04-10-2020, 10:11 AM   #5
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1966 22' Safari
1955 22' Flying Cloud
Fredericksburg , Texas
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Looks to be in really good shape. Of the 66, 67, and 68 year ASs, I think the 66 was the most unique. Primarily because of the window glass with no trim and curved. Some articles I’ve read points toward that streamlined and curved exterior design (with the frameless windows) was Art Costello’s desires. However it came to be, a unique design for sure. Good luck on your project and keep us posted.
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Old 04-10-2020, 10:14 AM   #6
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1970 23' Safari
Marion , New York
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 195
Looks like a great project. Thanks for all the pictures. We all like to see how a project is going. My Airstream is in a similar condition. I've repaired the frame, replaced the axel, and removed the interior lower panels. Next up, paint the frame and replace the floor. Have fun!
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Old 04-10-2020, 11:16 AM   #7
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1967 26' Overlander
Bugtussle , Oklahoma
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 400
*Knotted wire cup brushes like THIS used with an angle grinder work much better and last longer than wire wheels.
*Solid core wire will work just fine. There are arguments to be made in favor of using stranded wire, but it is not a necessity.
*If you have 300 dollars burning a hole in your pocket, BUY AN M12 RIVET TOOL. Makes riveting so much easier and I've probably spent nearly 300 replacing broken hand riveters over the years.
*Very nice trailer. Your friend did well. I also like the van. Wish I could find a good used E350.
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Old 04-10-2020, 11:24 AM   #8
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1972 25' Tradewind
1976 31' Excella 500
1974 31' Excella 500
1975 24' Argosy 24
Denver , Colorado
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikextr View Post
*Solid core wire will work just fine. There are arguments to be made in favor of using stranded wire, but it is not a necessity.

Will solid core conduct electricity in your Airstream? Of course. Will it break off with road vibration? You bet! I would love to see the numbers on solid vs. stranded in regard to "wiring problems" in vintage trailers. Not only will solid core break off at the ends where it is fastened to components and fixtures, but with constant vibration it can actually break and separate *inside* the sheathing.



When solid and stranded cost the same, why bother with the solid core if there is even a chance that it will fail?
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Old 04-10-2020, 11:57 AM   #9
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1966 22' Safari
1955 22' Flying Cloud
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Good,bad,or indifferent, we ordered marine stranded from West Marine. More expensive but no issues thus far.
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Old 04-10-2020, 02:49 PM   #10
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1967 26' Overlander
Bugtussle , Oklahoma
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kidjedi View Post
Will solid core conduct electricity in your Airstream? Of course. Will it break off with road vibration? You bet! I would love to see the numbers on solid vs. stranded in regard to "wiring problems" in vintage trailers. Not only will solid core break off at the ends where it is fastened to components and fixtures, but with constant vibration it can actually break and separate *inside* the sheathing.



When solid and stranded cost the same, why bother with the solid core if there is even a chance that it will fail?
I was trying to be diplomatic in my last post but now I have to say that you are just wrong and are making provably false claims. Stranded wire is not required or even recommended for RV applications based on Article 551 of the 2020 National Electric Code. The only mention of stranded wire states that an 8 awg ground may be solid or stranded. Everything you have said above about the benefits of stranded wire in an RV is only perpetuating a myth that is based on speculation and a misunderstanding of why some applications require stranded wire. You have no facts to support your statements. You say "I would love to see the numbers on solid vs. stranded in regard to "wiring problems" in vintage trailers". You can't because there is no data and there aren't any studies because solid core wire is not a problem in RVs. I am not saying that there is anything wrong with using stranded wire. It is just not a necessary improvement as you claim because solid core wire is perfectly suitable for RV applications per Article 551 of the National Electric Code. Here's a good article about stranded vs solid core wire.
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Old 04-10-2020, 03:27 PM   #11
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1976 31' Excella 500
1974 31' Excella 500
1975 24' Argosy 24
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At the risk of a flame war, the facts that support my claims are just first hand evidence when demo-ing many trailers and seeing what others have done (and where things have failed). I'm just trying to help SlorideFL make a good decision when purchasing materials for his build. If it costs the same, why not err on the side of caution? Plus, stranded wire is easier to work with in that it's more flexible and easier to route through tight turns, etc. I'm not trying to tell anyone they're wrong. I'm just conveying what I've learned first hand to try and help others.
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Old 04-10-2020, 03:47 PM   #12
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1966 24' Tradewind
1995 34' Excella
Lynchburg , Virginia
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Looks like she has a great body. That is very important.

I have a 66 Tradewind and love it. It was in very good shape when we got it 8 years ago and I have made numerous improvements to it . See Dan’s 66 Tradewind .Improvements in the Trailer section.

The 12v wiring is solid aluminum and no problems. However if rewiring I would go with marine stranded copper wire like Bubba did.

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Old 04-10-2020, 07:41 PM   #13
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1966 26' Overlander
Gainesville , Florida
Join Date: Apr 2020
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Keep the comments/opinions coming! I like the back and forth, as it lets me know you guys really care about why you do what you do. Solid or stranded...its still a 66 Airstream. That being said, i cannot do EVERYTHING i want to do to this one, so i have a ton of questions about which options are OK and which options will bring the value down. Its funny how the remodeling of a dirty old rotten trailer would be such a draw to so many different people...i can’t imagine actually using it for what it was designed to do!

Thanks for mentioning the marine stranded wire. I love some research. And i will probably end up getting a wire cup wheel. That seems a lot more useful than the wire wheel. Now i’ll have both! Win Win

I’m almost positive i have read through Dan’s Tradewind posts. I will revisit them. Plenty of good stuff just like the many other AS owners i see on here.

Any advice on trailer lights?? Should i test the old lights/wires or just go right to the rewire w/LED’s? I’ve heard there can be issues with the common 7 wire TV plugs not matching the older AS wire colors. That may not matter based on what i have on the Ford (only had that for a couple months). Any easy ways to test lights would be appreciated.

Got the fridge vent cover painted...now for the removal and re-install...Or do i want to tear the interior skins off first?? So many good problems to have. Hoping to drill the interior rivets tomorrow morning and remove the insulation to get a better look at everything.

Stay Clean and Stay Safe!
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Old 04-11-2020, 01:33 PM   #14
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1966 26' Overlander
Gainesville , Florida
Join Date: Apr 2020
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Interior Skins Removal

Today is the day! 1/8” drill, long sleeves and long pants, mask and a hat. Time to peel the onion 🧅

I’ll post some pictures to get some feedback, but i think she looks pretty darn good for here age 😃
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Old 04-11-2020, 04:45 PM   #15
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1966 26' Overlander
Gainesville , Florida
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Inspection

With the interior skins down i get to see the beauty Art saw back in 66. This thing shines like a disco ball! I hate to throw away this wire, so i may reuse whats not broken. There are definitely some buck rivets that need attention...i guess i’m going to research that (already got a good understanding thanks to kidjedi). There is a dent on the roof just behind the old AC opening that i can get to now. I’m trying to leave the interior endcaps, but they may be next on the list to be taken down.

Here are some pics of the walls. There is some white stuff on some of the seams that may mean a leak or two. Big day here at Sloride Customs!!
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Old 04-11-2020, 05:26 PM   #16
CC
 
1972 27' Overlander
Heinsburg , AB
Join Date: Jul 2018
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Wow, isn't it great to see the shiny new inside of these skins?! Such quality and so much to save. We have restored a late '50s Pathfinder; some back end rot (actually ALL of the back) but the wiring was in great shape. Why fix what is fine...
She's a beaut.
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Old 04-11-2020, 06:18 PM   #17
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1966 22' Safari
1955 22' Flying Cloud
Fredericksburg , Texas
Join Date: May 2015
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Great progress. With the interior skins out it really gives you insight on how these things were built. The dent on the roof was probably someone climbing on the roof to mess with the AC. If concerned, you can always add a little reinforcing around the opening. If you do take the endcaps out they will worm through the door. You may find that the stringers (horizontal members) may not be attached to the ribs. I had a long discussion with Coli Hyde in NY State concerning attaching those to the ribs. He said absolutely, so I did. Good luck and keep the pictures coming.
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Old 04-12-2020, 10:19 PM   #18
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1976 Argosy 24
1961 28' Ambassador
1968 26' Overlander
Lakewood , Colorado
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Looking good and nice clean interior. Love the chair to sit and plan your next move. My choices for my current project (#5, '68 Overlander)... Yes, buck rivets wherever possible, make some new friends as helpers. For pop rivets love the $75 air riveter from Harb Frt or online, don't be afraid to buy 1000 rivets. Marine wire for 110 and 12v, removed all the old aluminum wire, rewired with virtually none in the ceiling or walls to interfere with the insulation. Also moved a lot of things around in the trailer so complete rewire made sense. I like how easy and flexible the wire is to work with.
Keep it rolling... Mark D
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Old 04-13-2020, 03:16 PM   #19
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1966 26' Overlander
Gainesville , Florida
Join Date: Apr 2020
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Happy Easter!

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrdes8 View Post
Looking good and nice clean interior. Love the chair to sit and plan your next move. My choices for my current project (#5, '68 Overlander)... Yes, buck rivets wherever possible, make some new friends as helpers. For pop rivets love the $75 air riveter from Harb Frt or online, don't be afraid to buy 1000 rivets. Marine wire for 110 and 12v, removed all the old aluminum wire, rewired with virtually none in the ceiling or walls to interfere with the insulation. Also moved a lot of things around in the trailer so complete rewire made sense. I like how easy and flexible the wire is to work with.
Keep it rolling... Mark D
Mark D,

Thanks for joining the chat and helping me/us with our project. I was originally not planning on taking the interior skins off...and then the floor repair led me down this road. I am more than happy with my decision to take the old skins off, but now my plans have changed. Before the skins came off i was planning to retrofit all of my plumbing/wiring through my cabinets/beds/chases so that I could access it at any time. That would have made the existing outlets/switches non-operative. Now with the skins down, i might try to re-wire behind the skins using grommets like the factory.

Your wiring/insulation comment strikes some questions...

Have you done this before (utilities ran inside the trailer)? Hiding the wiring behind the skins does make me nervous...so i’m still on the fence.

What type of insulation material did you choose?? I’ve heard reflectix works and i’ve heard it doesn’t...comments?? Any option other than spray foam would intrigue me. I am leaning towards a reflectix or Polerex?? Some type of foil or foam board. In Flordia we only need to worry about the inside getting too warm and humid. Not much worry about snow ir being too cold in there...

Back to the wiring...
I now plan to run new wiring behind the skins and use most of the original positioning since the skins are made for it. I will be adding LED puck lights on the ceiling, which i was going to chase through a decorative bulkhead, but that chews up headroom...so i’m happy i can avoid that now.

How many 120v circuits do most trailers have? If there is a link or post i can research, please let me know. I have been scouring the internet/youtube for advice. I want a 120v 30A service, and we want to keep the A/C off the roof (i’m not sure this trailer ever had a roof A/C based on the wire still being rolled up behind the ceiling). Hoping to use 1 or 2 portable rolling units, no fridge (only ice chests like Wally used to), no built in over/stove (we can use a plug in flat top or propane cooktop outside), so i only really need a couple receptacle circuits but i’d like to keep the option open for a fridge/water heater/future 120 appliance.

All that said, 3 of the 120v Breakers should do me fine.

No for the low voltage...this is a new horizon for me and i love it. I would like to run whatever i can on low voltage. At the same time, i like to have enough power for tools and who-knows-what (hair dryers, MW, water heater) but that stuff will occupy my 120 and we should never have it all on at once.

How many low voltage circuits are usually needed?
Favorite brands of fixtures? Panels? Advice columns? My brother is an electrician by trade, but he hasn’t done much with Travel Trailers.

The goal is to bring the trailer to the new age...that just reminded me... how many of you are putting coax/tv? I was going to go for a Smart TV and WIFI hotspot if we need internet.

Rain in the forecast for the next week made me utilize my polebarn...time to replace some vent covers!!
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Old 04-13-2020, 05:04 PM   #20
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1967 26' Overlander
Bugtussle , Oklahoma
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Its great that you have a dry place to work. I used to visit my trailer on rainy days while the inner skins were off just mark the the leaks that I couldn't find with the water hose.
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