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View Poll Results: Would you be in favor of these changes??
Complete trailer frame treated with POR 15 before outer shell is attached. 19 57.58%
Complete trailer frame constructed out of Aluminum materials. 15 45.45%
Doesn't matter about the POR15 paint treatment prior to construction 2 6.06%
Doesn't matter about trailer frame Aluminum constructions 0 0%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 33. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 02-19-2009, 08:12 PM   #41
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Don ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Silvertwinkie View Post
The frames at the factory come with some paint on them. How good that paint is or how well it is applied might be up for discussion, however they are painted. Below is a pic of a chassis being loaded up with tanks and such during the construction process.

As for how long it takes to rust through frames. If this is any indication under harsh conditions, my 1980 Oldsmobeater Delta 88 with body on frame construction, lasted about 20 years as a daily driver in the rust belt. It saw all kinds of salt, moisture, etc. The frame had actually rusted through.
When I went on a factory tour about 4 years ago, the tour guide (Don) mention several points, as I recalled, in reply to several questions we had asked him concerning the frame.
1. The frame was fabricated off site and, not at the Jackson Center.
2. The paint was water based due to EPA air quality requirements.
I got the impression from him the whole frame thing was done off site due to EPA ruling (clean air issues) versa cost effectiveness, etc..
I find this hard to believe (cost effectiveness) but that's was the official information given.. as the reasons why POR15 was not used, etc.
To my way of thinking, the 3 things that Airstream has failed it customers on is..
1.The long term water tightness issues of it's roof. Given that there's no chance of any improvement in this, then to educate the new owners about what needs to be checked and, at what interval, in order to maintain that roof .
2. The floor material specification needs to be re-evaluated, clearly the material used for the last 30 plus year is just not designed for the kind of life we all expect for our money. Floor rot issues is not acceptable, PERIOD~!
3. For the last 56 years, since the frame went from pipes to what it is today, it has sorely been in need of massive redesigned approach for added strengths and, longevity.
Clearly, Wally would agree (if he were alive today), the experiments in the past on cost cutting has not worked for the owners~! Replace the frame with a better designs and, the use of either Aluminum or Titanium materials in place of this recycled steel.
There are people who have been associated with the Airstream product for many years that, clearly need to step back out of the box that they have built up around themselves.
As consumers and, owners of Airstream products, its time that we demand that the product be built to the standards that we can live with..
Jackson Center and, the network of dealers are just a temporary part of this process~ We are, after all, the ones paying our hard earned monies and, towing this trailer down the road.~
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Old 02-20-2009, 05:29 AM   #42
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An excellent synopsis of the situation, now lets hope they get the message!
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Old 02-20-2009, 06:14 AM   #43
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I don't think Por 15 would be a cost effective or practical way to protect the chassis. for Airstream. Anyone who has ever purchased or applied the stuff should know what I mean. Gavanizing would be a much better solution. There are probably be many companies that Airstream could job this out to. Airstream sells a life style and image as much as a product and it's obvious which is more important.
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Old 02-20-2009, 07:10 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by craftsman View Post
Airstream sells a life style and image as much as a product and it's obvious which is more important.
Image...

Frame, out of sight out of mind.
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Old 02-20-2009, 08:16 AM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by craftsman View Post
I don't think Por 15 would be a cost effective or practical way to protect the chassis. for Airstream. Anyone who has ever purchased or applied the stuff should know what I mean. Gavanizing would be a much better solution. There are probably be many companies that Airstream could job this out to. Airstream sells a life style and image as much as a product and it's obvious which is more important.


I disagree,
Northwoods rv has been using Por15 on there frames for the Nash and Artic Fox rigs for many years with excellent results.
Ken
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Old 02-20-2009, 09:09 AM   #46
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Interesting.... Starcraft Star Stream


I-Beam Steel Powder-Coated Frame
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Old 02-20-2009, 05:39 PM   #47
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Exclamation Odd..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Inland RV Center, In View Post
Auto spray undercoating works great.

Styrofoam is not recommended since it turns to crumbs from simple vibration.

Andy
Andy,
Interesting that you should know this and...Apparently, Airstream doesn't listen to you either..
I took this statement off Airstream's UK site..
Spec..on the floor and I quote~
"48mm thick sandwich floor - Styrofoam insulation"
Here's the entire ads statement..
CHASSIS & SUB STRUCTURE 532 534 684
48mm thick sandwich floor - Styrofoam insulation STD STD STD
BPW galvanised steel chassis, with outriggers STD STD STD
BPW 1700kg torsion bar axle, for smoother ride 1 N/A
1 1 N/A
BPW 1350kg load compensating torsion bar axles N/A 2 N/A N/A 1
EU compliant over-run braking system
STD STD STD
Winterhoff ZAF2,0-2 coupling with WS3000 stabiliser 1 N/A
1 1 N/A
Winterhoff ZAF2,8-2 coupling with WS3000 stabiliser N/A 1
N/A N/A 1
Diamond cut lacquered / black painted 15" alloy wheels 2 4 2 2 4
Heavy duty corner steadies with Big Foot spreader pads 4 4
4 4 4

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Old 02-20-2009, 06:30 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 53flyingcloud View Post
Andy,
Interesting that you should know this and...Apparently, Airstream doesn't listen to you either..
I took this statement off Airstream's UK site..
Spec..on the floor and I quote~
"48mm thick sandwich floor - Styrofoam insulation"
Here's the entire ads statement..
CHASSIS & SUB STRUCTURE 532 534 684
48mm thick sandwich floor - Styrofoam insulation STD STD STD
BPW galvanised steel chassis, with outriggers STD STD STD
BPW 1700kg torsion bar axle, for smoother ride 1 N/A
1 1 N/A
BPW 1350kg load compensating torsion bar axles N/A 2 N/A N/A 1
EU compliant over-run braking system
STD STD STD
Winterhoff ZAF2,0-2 coupling with WS3000 stabiliser 1 N/A
1 1 N/A
Winterhoff ZAF2,8-2 coupling with WS3000 stabiliser N/A 1
N/A N/A 1
Diamond cut lacquered / black painted 15" alloy wheels 2 4 2 2 4
Heavy duty corner steadies with Big Foot spreader pads 4 4
4 4 4


Some of them still don't believe in the flat rate manual, that I wrote in 1970, either.

But, since I have a service department, and as hard as it may be to say, I make money from some of their mistakes.

Andy
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Old 02-20-2009, 08:35 PM   #49
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i like the powder coating idea plain black, gloss black, silver or A/S blue would be cool?

It is relatively easy to powder coat something and a big enough oven can do multiple frames at one time.
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Old 02-21-2009, 06:17 AM   #50
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Sandwich floor means a layer of styrofoam glued between 2 layers of plywood. This makes an immensely strong structure. The outer layers protect the foam.

This makes a very rigid, light weight, insulated floor.
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Old 02-21-2009, 06:33 AM   #51
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Is the comparison of an Airstream to a car valid? Given the high cost, long life and intermittent use wouldn't a cottage or beach house be more like?

The life of a car might be 10 to 20 years, but 50 years for an Airstream or cottage is not unheard of.

I'm still thinking of the resale value or trade in value. Airstreams do hold their value better than a car and this should make it easier to "trade up".

I'm also thinking of friends who have taken their 3 to 5 year old luxury car back to the dealer to trade in. And were offered an insulting price like $500 to $2000 for a car they paid $50,000 or $60,000 for. In many cases they left without buying, and stayed sore as hell for a long time.
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Old 02-21-2009, 06:55 AM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ganaraska View Post
Sandwich floor means a layer of styrofoam glued between 2 layers of plywood. This makes an immensely strong structure. The outer layers protect the foam.

This makes a very rigid, light weight, insulated floor.
The only questions that begs an answer is..
1.Can it stand the test of time and, more importantly,
2.Can it stand the exposure to water, however that may be defined?
Personally, I feel that it's way past "time" for an overhaul in the materials selected and/or used on the sub-floor. Plywood just doesn't cut it..How many times do we have to go thru this? Replacing floor rot has to be one of the worse, uncalled for task in keeping an Airstream product usable..I mean, when Wally was using it back 50 yrs ago, it was a product that was cost effective and, seemingly durable. We all know now, that's not true. Even Airstream trailer that are not even 5 yrs old have examples already of floor rot~!! We're seeing examples of cracked frames and floor rot way, way too early~!
Do I expect a Airstream to last forever? YOU BETCHA I DO, EVEN AIRSTREAM BRAGS ABOUT THE LONGEVITY OF the AIRSTREAM TRAILER..
Under their banner.. on the UK site...
Reasons to buy an Airstream...I quote..
Longevity
Airstreams can easily last 40 years and more, rather than the conventional trailer's typical life of 10-15 years. When you amortize the purchase price over its length of service, an Airstream actually costs less to own than other trailers. Nearly 70% of all Airstreams ever made are still on the road today!
Doesn't this sounds like an "implied warranty"??
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Old 02-21-2009, 08:03 AM   #53
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Wink

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ganaraska View Post
The life of a car might be 10 to 20 years, but 50 years for an Airstream or cottage is not unheard of.
I'm still thinking of the resale value or trade in value. Airstreams do hold their value better than a car and this should make it easier to "trade up".
.
Maybe, maybe not...
This car was made for the masses in 1953. Well built, basic nothing really special. Has had nothing more than regular maintenance since, driven year round for it's first 25yrs, I have been offered 25 times what it cost new. It's all relative.
Oh, no frame rot.
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Old 02-21-2009, 09:06 AM   #54
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Originally Posted by Ganaraska View Post
Is the comparison of an Airstream to a car valid? Given the high cost, long life and intermittent use wouldn't a cottage or beach house be more like?
I believe it is because autos are a manufactured product that is taken on the road. There are several things that have to happen with a moving product that aren't an issue for cottages or houses. Yes, one could argue the auto industry is huge and that 1 or 2 in every 10 jobs tied to it, whereas the RV sector is nowhere near that. Yet I would argue that any vehicle builder, be it Harley-Davidson, a auto builder, a boat builder or any other builder of a vehicle must do the proper homework and listen closely to it's customer base. Those vehicle builders that have not listened to their customers have in fact gone through some really rough times. How many folks have heard or discussed Newmar Homes or Lexington Homes? How many folks rant and rave between Ford vs. Chevy. My sense is that folk scrutinize and talk a lot more about vehicles than homes, because vehicles are more of an emotional purchase (though I know there are detailed home shoppers out there).

People buy houses because of location and amenities, people buy vehicles for vastly different reasons. In many cases homes are not as much of a discretionary purchase as vehicles are, and more specifically, RVs.
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Old 02-22-2009, 08:57 AM   #55
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Who gives a crap, if they top the frame with particle board.

Robert Cross said it best. we already pay more. Time to expect more. I was just at a local service shop. They had just done an insurance claim on a 2005, which had a small plumbing leak. It swelled the particle board floor up and destroyed the entire trailer. I was told the small leak ruined the trailer in just a few days. Total loss.

Funny, I was at a dealership and saw a cross section of the wall and floor. It wasn't until I got home when I realized the wood I saw on the display was actually 3/4 ply wood. I'm surprised they spared the extra expense for the display. I mean the display isn't going to get wet mounted on the wall in the show room.
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Old 02-22-2009, 09:01 AM   #56
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Oh, nice car Robert...
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Old 03-05-2009, 06:21 AM   #57
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Why not?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ganaraska View Post
Sandwich floor means a layer of styrofoam glued between 2 layers of plywood. This makes an immensely strong structure. The outer layers protect the foam.

This makes a very rigid, light weight, insulated floor.
Well...
I like the sandwich floor concept but, I object to the use of plywood`!
It's time to get away from the use of plywood~ floor rot will follow you and, anyone else who ever buys this unit..We need to break this vicious cycle~
Mothership needs to be taught a lesson, so pay attention~
I saw, yet another thread, someone mentioning the use of Aluminum for the outer material bonding a rigid plastic core~! In doing some research on my own and, based upon that lead, I came across this site.

Laminators Inc. - Sign Panel Products: Alumalite Corrugated plastic core, double-sided aluminum for stability and strength

Here' what was mentioned..
Quote:
Alumalite™
Corrugated plastic core, double-sided aluminum for stability and strength

Benefits

* Alumalite is ideal for paints, digital inks (both UV or solvent cured), screen print inks and pressure sensitive vinyl.
* Strong and lightweight, Alumalite is the same weight as .040 aluminum sheet metal, tipping the scales at just 25 lbs. For a 4’ x 8’ sheet, Alumalite is over 50 times stronger!
* Alumalite routs and cuts easily using standard carpentry tools.
* Wind resistant. When properly fastened between two posts, Alumalite can withstand winds over 120 mph.
* Weather resistant, Alumalite is water, sun and temperature resistant, with a “Class A” flame spread rating. The surface is formulated to resist outdoor dirt and is practically “self-cleaning.”
* The water insensitive plastic core does not require edge sealing. However, vinyl Edge Caps are available in a variety of colors to add a decorative and professional finish.

Construction

* Alumalite is a strong, aluminum composite panel with a high density, corrugated polyallomer (CPA) core that will not swell, corrode, rot, wick water, or delaminate even under prolonged water exposure.
* Factory baked polyester painted aluminum faces add high gloss brilliance and rigidity. Warranted not to crack, chip, flake or peel. Colorfast 10-year limited warranty.
* Field tested through extensive freeze/thaw cycling tests with no significant structural panel failure.
* Finished edges can be achieved with color-matched Edge Cap, a caulked edge, or simply wrap the edges with vinyl.
* Surface is protected during shipping with a protective, plastic, peel-off masking.
It shows that, yes it's possible to change product. Cost? I believe it should be included in the same cost as what is charged now..
Look..it's possible that a unit made with this flooring material, that floor rot will never be a issues again!! Isn't that what we want?? I find it hard to accept that the Mothership isn't on top of this~!?
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