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truckasaurus · 03-28-2009, 06:20 PM

Having read, numerous times, many of the excellent threads telling the frame up rebuild story I wanted to start one for my project. Given that I'm always asking, somewhat bizarre, questions at least this should help keep me in one place. I've had this gutted '61 for a nearly a year now and feel I've got a decent plan.

I had the running gear replaced before I picked her up and recently I stripped all the interior aluminum, wiring and insulation out. The vents were mostly long gone and I ditched the swamp cooler. As it stands right now she's up on jacks all leveled out with some, (maybe a little on the overkill side) bracing holding the shell in place.

In general the job will start with replacing the floor and every panel except the curved ends and maybe one or two flat sheets but we'll see how that goes. I've kept every sheet that came out for either reuse or as a template. I'll be substantially changing the interior layout and all appliances too. I'm very keen on the Vacuflush system, Precisiontemp showermate, Isotherm cruise 200 refrigerator and a few other nifty gadgets but I'll adjust as I go along.

The next stage for me is to lift the shell and get a look at the frame. I want to do this before final tank selection. I'm hoping the frame is more or less OK as the floor wasn't particularly bad at all. So after any work on the frame it's off for sandblasting, then POR15 and a sealed exterior ply floor. I'm hoping to secure the (new) exterior sections of the belly pan leaving the core area open for now, then reattach the shell. We'll see how it all goes...

So here's the current idea.

And here's the progress to date.

Sixty3TW4US · 03-28-2009, 06:37 PM

truckasaurus, looks like you know what you are doing. I'm sure
you will have a real beauty when it's complete. Keep the progress and
pics coming, Great Job!!

ArtStream · 03-28-2009, 09:31 PM

Hey Truck,
Looks like a winner to me!
I like the floor plan.

Looking forward to your progress.

Michael

Inland RV Center, In · 03-28-2009, 09:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by truckasaurus

Having read, numerous times, many of the excellent threads telling the frame up rebuild story I wanted to start one for my project. Given that I'm always asking, somewhat bizarre, questions at least this should help keep me in one place. I've had this gutted '61 for a nearly a year now and feel I've got a decent plan.

I had the running gear replaced before I picked her up and recently I stripped all the interior aluminum, wiring and insulation out. The vents were mostly long gone and I ditched the swamp cooler. As it stands right now she's up on jacks all leveled out with some, (maybe a little on the overkill side) bracing holding the shell in place.

In general the job will start with replacing the floor and every panel except the curved ends and maybe one or two flat sheets but we'll see how that goes. I've kept every sheet that came out for either reuse or as a template. I'll be substantially changing the interior layout and all appliances too. I'm very keen on the Vacuflush system, Precisiontemp showermate, Isotherm cruise 200 refrigerator and a few other nifty gadgets but I'll adjust as I go along.

The next stage for me is to lift the shell and get a look at the frame. I want to do this before final tank selection. I'm hoping the frame is more or less OK as the floor wasn't particularly bad at all. So after any work on the frame it's off for sandblasting, then POR15 and a sealed exterior ply floor. I'm hoping to secure the (new) exterior sections of the belly pan leaving the core area open for now, then reattach the shell. We'll see how it all goes...

So here's the current idea.

And here's the progress to date.

Suggestion before you go to far.

Try to calculate the front to back weight and balance.

In looking at your proposed design, you may be creating a side to side, large weight unbalance.

Andy

toastie · 03-29-2009, 06:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inland RV Center, In

Suggestion before you go to far.

Try to calculate the front to back weight and balance.

In looking at your proposed design, you may be creating a side to side, large weight unbalance.

Andy

Andy, great point, I'm going through a full restoration on a 1955 Safari, I will balance the interior side to side.........thanks.........toastie

truckasaurus · 03-29-2009, 08:35 AM

Balancing weight distribution in the layout is a great point, I've tried to factor in most items but it's trickier than I had thought. Given that it's a key factor in the success of a redesign I was a little surprised not to find more talk on the topic.

To simplify it somewhat the proposed layout has most of the weight central and low down, no tall refrigerator, no roof mounted AC, and at this stage no range or microwave just a cooktop (I figure this reduces the need for a z axis in the balancing act). I've detailed the weight of fridge, cooktop, head, water heater, and hope to balance around these items using the water pump and vacuflush system, batteries, converter, etc. The fridge bothers me the most so maybe I should have a cabinet directly opposite it housing a floor mounted AC and a draw topped off with a convection microwave?

Nearly everything "non cabinetry, bed etc" so far is very, very close to the axles but I haven't estimated the cabinets, bed or dinette yet. I did cobble together a tongue scale though and gutted I had a weight of 225 lbs. So if I can address any side to side issues and then just add propane, batteries and relatively easy to distribute items I hope to get to the 10% -15% tongue weight again.

I think I'll head the warning though and whip up a spreadsheet. I'll use the item weight and distance from the centre line for the side to side balance and then a second sheet with distance from the mid point between the two axles. Any ideas are most welcome right now.

Inland RV Center, In · 03-29-2009, 08:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by toastie

Andy, great point, I'm going through a full restoration on a 1955 Safari, I will balance the interior side to side.........thanks.........toastie

An exact balance is not necessary.

Something less than 10 percent difference of the overall weight is usually ok.

One of the ways to help the balancing, is to install the water tank on the light side of the trailer. Have it full when traveling, which they all should be anyways, and when the trailer is parked, who cares. Just enjoy.

A tongue weight of closer to 15 percent or sometimes even more, should be the goal, so that you wind up with ball park 600 pounds. That will help the proper utilization of the load equalizing hitch.

Andy

truckasaurus · 03-29-2009, 03:12 PM

Quick question but do 30 lb propane bottles weigh in at 30 lbs or just hold that weight of liquid?

Inland RV Center, In · 03-29-2009, 11:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by truckasaurus

Quick question but do 30 lb propane bottles weigh in at 30 lbs or just hold that weight of liquid?

LPG bottle ratings are for the amount of LPG that they can contain.

Ball park, LPG weighs 4 pounds per gallon. A 30 pound tank then holds 7 1/2 gallons of LPG.

How much the empty tank weighs depends on the metal, steel or aluminum.

Andy

hampstead38 · 03-30-2009, 12:09 PM

I'm doing a very similar floor plan for our '67 Overlander. I want to turn the bed 90 degree to allow "user access" from side. We're doing a sofa in front rather than a dinette in front. My rough thought is that we're balancing the galley on one side versus the bath on the other. Rather than the bathroom door facing the galley, I'm leaning towards it facing the bed. Otherwise, it's pretty similar.

truckasaurus · 03-30-2009, 08:32 PM

Hi Hampstead, do you have any sketches or plans?

truckasaurus · 04-12-2009, 08:59 AM

Really not great photos taken with my macbook camera but I had a day this week and couldn't resist getting the top off. (the images are mirrored, as I used photo-booth as the application)(new camera ordered though).

I used a trolley jack and some 2x6 off-cuts. The bracing worked out well so far in that it actually rocked on the sawhorses rather than conform to the uneven ground. I need a little bracing just to stop any movement in the lower end sections that might fatigue the metal. The internal bracing is screwed down to the beams and in turn to the saw horses. It was a bit nerve wracking but apart from the fasteners holding the ribs to the C-channel and the vice like grip of the Vulkem stuff is went as expected.

I'm hoping to strip the chassis of floor and belly pan/ fiberglass today, I'm keen to see what the steel is like and if the plan I have for tanks is viable.

Aage · 04-12-2009, 09:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inland RV Center, In

Have it full when traveling, which they all should be anyways,

Sorry to go off-topic, but I'm curious about something.

Andy,

I've seen you mention this in a few posts, just wondering why you feel it's important to travel fully-laden with water.

Inland RV Center, In · 04-12-2009, 09:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aage

Sorry to go off-topic, but I'm curious about something.

Andy,

I've seen you mention this in a few posts, just wondering why you feel it's important to travel fully-laden with water.

Several reasons for traveling with "full water."

1. Lets your bathroom be operational when your on the road.

2. Lowers the center of gravity of the trailer.

3. Should you have a radiator or heater hose blow, "guess" where you can get the water, totally independent of others.

4. Contrary to some opinions, the full water does very little harm to fuel mileage. Maybe 1 or 2 percent. Or, another way to say it, if carrying the water reduces your mileage to point that you cannot afford to go, then maybe the trip should not have started in the first place.

Andy

putback · 04-13-2009, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inland RV Center, In

An exact balance is not necessary.

Something less than 10 percent difference of the overall weight is usually ok.

One of the ways to help the balancing, is to install the water tank on the light side of the trailer. Have it full when traveling, which they all should be anyways, and when the trailer is parked, who cares. Just enjoy.

A tongue weight of closer to 15 percent or sometimes even more, should be the goal, so that you wind up with ball park 600 pounds. That will help the proper utilization of the load equalizing hitch.

Andy

Andy, can you expand on this, never noticed it in forums befor. I'm just begining reassembly on a '64, 22'. Orig tongue weight 305#?. This weight limit screws up what I'd like to do w/interior. Shooting for less than 4k laden weight. If you insist +or-450 lbs would accually be better, well, I'd have to buy you a beer!!!!!! Will tow w/a reese, bars & sway. & V8 explorer rated at 5k#.

truckasaurus · 04-14-2009, 05:46 PM

Well the 7 inches of snow and strong winds forecasted for the morning turned into a good breeze and some wet snow that melted away so I spent 3 hours this afternoon on the chassis.

I drilled the elevator rusty bolt mess out and pried the plywood up; only once forgetting that the fiberglass isn't load bearing and ended up standing on the ground...

So after brushing away the wet insulation remnants and rusty debris I can see what steel is left. There doesn't seem to be too much wrong. An outrigger that I'd like to repair or replace, one crossmember with an ugly hole cut in it and one with rust perforation. On top of that my welding list includes:
- some boxing in of the rails if required
- replacing 3 cross members with channel or box and some extra channel to create the tank spaces
- replacing the tongue jack
- adding plates for the bal jacks
- maybe welding the reese WD brackets in place

I'll hold off on the propane tank mounts until I'm further along and I'm not keen on a spare wheel mount so I'll skip that too.

Today I learnt that I'd rather not sandwich fiberglass between the frame and the floor.

I'm not 100% loving the tear down part but very very shortly I should be free of all gross old stuff and ready for fresh solid materials.

Overlander & Sea · 04-14-2009, 05:58 PM

I like your interior layout. If I had a gutted trailer, I'd pick the same-big rear bed & a place to eat! Are you going to install a gray tank and a fresh water tank, of so, under the floor? Black water tank above the floor?

truckasaurus · 04-14-2009, 06:30 PM

Yup, I'm going for a 40 something gallon fresh and similar grey under the floor. They are 7 inches deep so the frame and shroud under them will be 4" lower than the stock belly pan. This is almost exactly the same height as the bar running between the axles containing the torsion rubber. I figure that if anything I run over is going to take out a tank it'll have wrecked the axles too. The black tank will be smaller and located inside the trailer (under the bed I hope). I'm shooting for the 18 Gallon unit but the Vacuflush system is supposed to use very little water, 1 pint per flush rather than 4.

Aage · 04-14-2009, 09:26 PM

Yep, looking good, Trucky. You going to put some POR on that frame, too?

Wheels and tires look brand new!

truckasaurus · 04-14-2009, 09:51 PM

Post welding it'll be sandblasted then POR'd up. I'm toying with the idea of doing the bumper in red chrome but we'll see.
The wheels and tires are the ones that came with; trust me the rims look horrid close up (but they do have what look like moon clips), the tires are good but the wrong size. I have a sweet set of mags and marathons waiting to go on when all the messy stuff is done.