Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 05-16-2010, 10:53 PM   #321
Rivet Master
 
MarkR's Avatar
 
1951 21' Flying Cloud
1960 24' Tradewind
Folsom , California
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 727
Images: 12
Here's a link to an Anti-Siphon Interior Vent Cap Thingy. I believe you should only use this for an individual sink fixture . . . your tank(s) should still have a dedicated vent.

Vent Pro - RV Parts, RV Supplies & RV Accessories for 5th Wheels, ToyHaulers, Campers
__________________

Aluminumbskull with Led Balloon in Drag
***
Birch Plywood and Aluminum go together like
Peanut Butter and Chocolate
MarkR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2010, 11:21 PM   #322
Rivet Master
 
Zeppelinium's Avatar

 
1973 23' Safari
1977 23' Safari
2014 25' Flying Cloud
Palmer Lake , Colorado
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 4,023
Send a message via Skype™ to Zeppelinium
Quote:
Originally Posted by truckasaurus View Post
...Do fridges have a low level and high level vent? and if so is there a square inch area that I need to take account of? What I need to understand is how big a roof vent I should plan on and if I can just run some duct or something inside the wall to get up there.
You need to provide an adequate "chimney" for an amonia-based fridge to work. I haven't measured the standard vent channel size on mine, but on reflection it seems like it's 60-80 square inches. You can't get that by venting up between the skins. Your fridge will not work if you don't do this right. Fridge efficiency is improved with increased air flow past the condenser, so a higher exit point is good. The air needs to enter at the bottom of the fridge, either from the side or up through the floor.

Doing it right includes making sure that the "chimney" is sealed to the back of the fridge from bottom to top, like air tight, and against the inside skin as well. This makes the chimney work better and keeps any carbon monoxide from entering the living space inside the trailer.

Quote:
I know I've read on here somewhere that one plumbing fix involved a special kind of valve or vent that didn't require a thru roof fitting, it's designed for use in residential kitchen island situations where a typical vent isn't possible, if anyone knows what it's called I'd love to use them to cut down on holes I need to keep or cut.

I also saw that Jacob D used a sidewall Westmarine vent for his fresh tank and it looked very cool so if 5/8" diameter allows enough venting I'm keen to go that route too.
By code, most Airstream venting is overkill. My Overlander had a vent at the sink and a vent at the tank. I used one of those anti siphon valves at the sink to get rid of one vent pipe. This was a mistake, since that required me to leave the other one in. I am going to reverse thisp--you need a vent at the sink end in order to drain into the tank without sucking the water out of the traps. This vent is adequate for dumping, so the other vent is a code requirement that solves only one problem--where if you didn't have a vent in the tank itself and you parked on a tilt so that the inlet is blocked and gases then build up in the tank (since there is no vent in the tank, forcing gray water back toward the sinks). This is unlikely and only a nuisance--I doubt that enough gas would ever build up to force more than a small amount toward the sinks, never filling the drains.

When you dump with only a vent at the sink end of the drains, that vent will provide plenty of air to the tank.

Zep
__________________
Zep@Charmedquark.net
Zeppelinium is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2010, 06:45 AM   #323
Rivet Master
 
safari62's Avatar
 
1962 22' Safari
1957 22' Custom
1963 16' Bambi
Vacationland , Maine
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 951
Images: 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by truckasaurus View Post
I'm thinking that I should really get some help working out the vent details about now. I had kind of forgotten that as well as water and grey water vents I also need to vent the refrigerator. The black tank is pretty sorted as I'll just follow the Vacuflush installation instruction).

I scanned a Dometic installation manual (for the 2351) online but couldn't quite figure it all out. Do fridges have a low level and high level vent? and if so is there a square inch area that I need to take account of? What I need to understand is how big a roof vent I should plan on and if I can just run some duct or something inside the wall to get up there.

I know I've read on here somewhere that one plumbing fix involved a special kind of valve or vent that didn't require a thru roof fitting, it's designed for use in residential kitchen island situations where a typical vent isn't possible, if anyone knows what it's called I'd love to use them to cut down on holes I need to keep or cut.

I also saw that Jacob D used a sidewall Westmarine vent for his fresh tank and it looked very cool so if 5/8" diameter allows enough venting I'm keen to go that route too.
As far as refrigerator venting goes, this what I worked out on my 62'. With all of your changes in the floor plan the 61' roof vent is no doubt now in the a different location.

My 62' did and still does vent through the wall to what I call the birds mouth vent on the roof. The original Dometic was larger and vented in the same place but directly to a small open hood on the inside wall. I do not have a photo of this but you probably had the same arrangement.

I enclosed the original heat screen along with the area where the exhaust vents and built in a themostatic vent fan (still not wired up) and always open the bottom vent door while refer is operating on LP.

The other temporary set up was an aluminum dryer vent hose which worked for three years before the one shown in these photos. Now going on six years with extra vent fan.

But it works and I like the look of the old roof vent.

Exterior photo shows roof vent and vent channel area.(rivet lines) Left of door next to handle.
Dryer hose vent with enclosed heat gas.
Final enclosed vent with built in fan.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	mushrooms 054.jpg
Views:	109
Size:	335.6 KB
ID:	102720   Click image for larger version

Name:	door in door 001.jpg
Views:	109
Size:	202.5 KB
ID:	102721  

Click image for larger version

Name:	pix 023.jpg
Views:	106
Size:	215.0 KB
ID:	102722  
safari62 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2010, 08:32 AM   #324
Rivet Master
 
truckasaurus's Avatar
 
1960 33' Custom
Athens , Georgia
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,280
Images: 25
Fridges

Most interesting. This is another instance where buying a pre gutted trailer makes things tricky when trying to piece the mystery together.

In the 1st photo I had assumed that the charred looking area was a fridge vent channel and that somewhere down the line a PO had ripped the top vent off and patched it. The holes in it that had wires crossing through should indicate otherwise but who knows what went on back in the day. There was also a large patch at floor level, 2nd shot, that could have been the intake area, maybe?

I like the birds mouth vent, a la Safari62's trailer, and would love to go that route especially if I could create a though floor intake vent, it would mean I could keep the sleek exterior look. (Westmarine has some smart vent cowls, pic 3). I guess I would have to add a helper fan for the gasses and I don't quite understand what stops rain getting into the roof vent when towing but itt seems feasible...
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0429.jpg
Views:	97
Size:	57.5 KB
ID:	102729   Click image for larger version

Name:	P1010540.jpg
Views:	87
Size:	49.7 KB
ID:	102730  

Attached Images
 
__________________
1960 Sovereign 33' Pacific Railroad Custom
truckasaurus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2010, 08:50 AM   #325
Rivet Master
 
safari62's Avatar
 
1962 22' Safari
1957 22' Custom
1963 16' Bambi
Vacationland , Maine
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 951
Images: 43
These are the only photos I can show right now.....but if you look closely at the interior of the roof vent you will see that the outward surface is raised about a quarter inch above the surface of the exterior skin.

The "hood" of the vent is also open at the top, allowing for exhaust to past either way. Water flowing from above cannot go into the vent because of the raised plate under the hood. Ingenious!

Astrodome pic...look to lower right corner to see top of open hood vent.

I can take closer pics later if needed.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	hatch 001.jpg
Views:	98
Size:	165.7 KB
ID:	102735   Click image for larger version

Name:	in&out (23).JPG
Views:	114
Size:	51.9 KB
ID:	102736  

safari62 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2010, 09:12 AM   #326
Rivet Master
 
truckasaurus's Avatar
 
1960 33' Custom
Athens , Georgia
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,280
Images: 25
That is pretty ingenious, nice and simple too.
__________________
1960 Sovereign 33' Pacific Railroad Custom
truckasaurus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2010, 11:09 AM   #327
Rivet Master
 
hampstead38's Avatar
 
1967 26' Overlander
Upperco , Maryland
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,105
Blog Entries: 22
Truck, I didn't want to jam up your thread with a bunch of pictures, so I posted photos of my vents on the Overlander to my Airforums blog. I have a roof vent for the gray tanks that I think will have a mushroom cap. My challenge is that I have the Nature's Head composting toilet which will go on the starboard side but my roof vent (and frig vents) are on the port side. One of my thoughts is to vent into the wheel well. Another is to run the venting pipe over to the stack. One of the reasons I'm rough framing and mocking up the interior is so I can figure out all of my mechanicals before I enclose anything. I think I'm good on plumbing and electrical. Venting is the last challenge. Oh, and I'm building a bench seat shower using the wheel well. I'll use the distance between the top of the well and the bottom of the seat to run my furnace duct and possibly venting. I know that probably doesn't make sense, but I'll post pictures when I fab it.
hampstead38 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2010, 11:37 AM   #328
Restorations done right
Commercial Member
 
Frank's Trailer Works's Avatar
 
1962 26' Overlander
1961 26' Overlander
Vintage Kin Owner
Currently Looking...
Baltimore , Maryland
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 5,545
Images: 2
that blackening you see is caused by the mixture on the flame running too rich not that a fire took place. In the application Gary is showing the flue gasses are being removed but the heat from the coils is being sent into the room. I have this same set up in my trailer using a new Dometic.
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_2799.jpg
Views:	79
Size:	13.0 KB
ID:	102741
On the wall is this scoop that originally funneled the fumes up and into the wall.
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_2800.jpg
Views:	81
Size:	12.5 KB
ID:	102742
The hole into the inner wall space is just a little small and was widened out to take out the whole area behind the scoop.
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_2813.jpg
Views:	81
Size:	18.0 KB
ID:	102743
I bent a new chimney to send the fumes directly into the wall and out. It vents air under the front and out the back of the counter top to cool the coils.
All of this is very close to how the system originally was with the gas only Dometic
Frank's Trailer Works is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2010, 01:01 PM   #329
Rivet Master
 
Zeppelinium's Avatar

 
1973 23' Safari
1977 23' Safari
2014 25' Flying Cloud
Palmer Lake , Colorado
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 4,023
Send a message via Skype™ to Zeppelinium
Frank, thanks for the insight. I'm amazed that the fridges work with such a short chimney. I like the alternative of just venting the combustion gases outside--great for trailers with the shortest fridges, like a 60s Bambi. But I still prefer the tall sealed chimney, with the draft and combustion air all going outside. It improves performance in the hot afternoons in the Black Rock Desert.

Zep
__________________
Zep@Charmedquark.net
Zeppelinium is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2010, 03:24 PM   #330
Restorations done right
Commercial Member
 
Frank's Trailer Works's Avatar
 
1962 26' Overlander
1961 26' Overlander
Vintage Kin Owner
Currently Looking...
Baltimore , Maryland
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 5,545
Images: 2
Zep, I would prefer to have the gas and the hot air go out, but that meant cutting a hole. The warm air is welcomed in the winter but ads to heat in summer. I just thought to keep it simple. The original system was simple. I wish I had some photos of the eyebrow vent...
Frank's Trailer Works is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2010, 04:14 PM   #331
Rivet Master
 
nmbosa's Avatar
 
1959 26' Overlander
Nowhere , Washington
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 573
Here is a photo of the eyebrow vent. I didn't have much choice but to replace this on my trailer as the original owner had retrofitted a larger vent (seen to the left of the eyebrow) back in the 60's. Truck, if you need one of these vent covers, you can have mine. It also has a triangle flange that sits underneath and deflects water around the vent hole.
Norm
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_1927.jpg
Views:	90
Size:	199.2 KB
ID:	102774  
__________________
Norm and Mary
blog: Captain Wilson's Overlander
nmbosa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2010, 07:21 PM   #332
Rivet Master
 
truckasaurus's Avatar
 
1960 33' Custom
Athens , Georgia
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,280
Images: 25
I don't even want to think what this work would be like without the airforums wealth of knowledge and friendly helpful attitude. Thanks for all the pictures it really helps.

I managed to scoot out and investigate wire and receptacle boxes, or I should say I tried to. It seems that the shallow acrylic boxes aren't approved for Canadian use so I'm having to think a bit harder. On the up side I have found some sources for 12/2 Stranded which may be useable, one is $1.45 per foot frpm NAPA Wire - Universal, 12 Gauge; Red;Black
The other is closer to 47 c per foot. SJEOOW-12-2BK250 Products

Also I ordered some Trempro 636, aka the smooth Vulkem, from Fastenal so at last I've succeeded in buying something locally!

I did waiver earlier today and Googled some of the 12V fridges but they just don't seem right for this application, maybe next time.
__________________
1960 Sovereign 33' Pacific Railroad Custom
truckasaurus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2010, 09:22 PM   #333
Rivet Master
 
nmbosa's Avatar
 
1959 26' Overlander
Nowhere , Washington
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 573
Your first link didn't work, but the second appears to be similar to what I used for the brake wires on my trailer. That stuff is very thick and takes a full 5/8th grommet space. For the bulk of your work, you may need room to fit either 2 or 3 pairs unless you plan to drill tons of extra holes in the ribs. I highly recommend buying the 12g stranded wire in individual spools or a pair that has much less insulation.
__________________
Norm and Mary
blog: Captain Wilson's Overlander
nmbosa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2010, 05:14 PM   #334
Rivet Master
 
truckasaurus's Avatar
 
1960 33' Custom
Athens , Georgia
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,280
Images: 25
I settled on a mix of stranded marine cable 12/2 and some single stranded 12 (for the 12 and 120V), and a bazillion 5/8" grommets. The 2 conductor marine stuff looks very slim so if Fedex don't hit me with a huge shipping charge it should be all good.

Now back to refrigeration:

I came across a suggestion from InlandRV Andy which I wanted to run by you all.

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f480...tml#post812924

Does anyone have any ideas about what the floor vent would resemble? If it's 8" x 8" it's going to make fitting it tight to the belly pan tricky without use of a shrinker/ stretcher but I prefer it to the idea of a louvered or plain door, I think.
__________________
1960 Sovereign 33' Pacific Railroad Custom
truckasaurus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2010, 01:51 PM   #335
Rivet Master
 
truckasaurus's Avatar
 
1960 33' Custom
Athens , Georgia
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,280
Images: 25
Electrical Question

More pictures by Wednesday..... But until then I've got a few more questions.

If I install the acrylic shallow box receptacles linked in previous posts can I use regular (residential) style 120 V receptacles?

I also assumed that I'd find 12V light switches that looked like household ones but all I can see are little automotive style white rocker switches, is that the norm? (It crossed my mind that maybe I could use 120v switches for the 12v DC lights but something tells me that I should ask first )
__________________
1960 Sovereign 33' Pacific Railroad Custom
truckasaurus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2010, 02:20 PM   #336
Rivet Master
 
Wabbiteer's Avatar
 
1973 27' Overlander
1972 29' Ambassador
St. Paul , Minnesota
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,043
Images: 2
Blog Entries: 2
The floor vent in my '73 is 4-3/8 x 20-1/8 inches and runs lengthwise 3/16-inch from the C-Channel. The corners are radiused, not square, on about a 1-inch curve. This hole in the floor is protected from above with galvanized 1/4" mesh steel fabric. Basically it is the entire bottom open area of the refrigerators apparatus area, less the framing.
__________________
The days are short and the night is long and the stars go tumbling by.. . ~Airstream~
Wabbiteer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2010, 10:23 PM   #337
Rivet Master
 
nmbosa's Avatar
 
1959 26' Overlander
Nowhere , Washington
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 573
Truck, these two pieces will be on their way up to you tomorrow. The piece to the left is basically a water diverter that goes around the vent hole and deflects water around the hole. It was riveted down with a bead of Vulkem. The hole through the roof was about 1 1/2 to 2" in diameter. Both pieces on mine were installed with pop rivets. I assume this was a repair done at some time after manufacture, as they would sure look better and be more weather resistant with bucked rivets.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_2289.jpg
Views:	93
Size:	255.9 KB
ID:	102938  
__________________
Norm and Mary
blog: Captain Wilson's Overlander
nmbosa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2010, 08:33 AM   #338
Rivet Master
 
truckasaurus's Avatar
 
1960 33' Custom
Athens , Georgia
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,280
Images: 25
I'm going to do my best to give them a new home, hopefully for another 50 years!

Thanks again Norm.
__________________
1960 Sovereign 33' Pacific Railroad Custom
truckasaurus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2010, 09:16 AM   #339
Rivet Master
 
truckasaurus's Avatar
 
1960 33' Custom
Athens , Georgia
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,280
Images: 25
Polishing Polishing

So the polishing continues.... The end of the first cut is in sight, a couple more good days maybe.

I took a shot of the olympic rivets that I had used a while back to fill in the holes left when removing the awning rail. I don't plan on splurging on a rivet shaver so I just filed the mandrels down just like on a Cherry rivet. I think they work well, especially after the polishing wheel has passed over them.

I'm going to pick up some stainless pan head screws and switch them out with the stock items I'd used to install the fantastic fans, it seems like they will work better placing less stress on the plastic frames.

I'm looking at using Roxul mineral wool insulation in some areas and wondered if anyone has used it before. It seems well suited?
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_1580_2.jpg
Views:	98
Size:	37.4 KB
ID:	103344   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_1583_2.jpg
Views:	105
Size:	59.4 KB
ID:	103345  

__________________
1960 Sovereign 33' Pacific Railroad Custom
truckasaurus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2010, 12:20 PM   #340
Rivet Master
 
Wabbiteer's Avatar
 
1973 27' Overlander
1972 29' Ambassador
St. Paul , Minnesota
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,043
Images: 2
Blog Entries: 2
On the Roxul "Acoustic" mineral wool insulation - in the shell cavities there are other products superior as thermal insulation and equal in sound absorption. Where the Roxul or Owens Corning lines excel is as open-air fire-safe acoustic absorbent material in public venues - say ten or thirty feet off the ground in schools, theaters, halls, etc.. Were it will see zero wear and tear... You'd have to be planning a serious home theater to work around its fragility and interior space loss.

Yet - if someone is paying you or yours to remove it as a tenant modification to a conference room or recording studio I might be tempted to experiment with it under the floor and interior surface mounted 'modern art' panels / tapestries blah blah or some such to make music or entertaining a bit more classy...
__________________
The days are short and the night is long and the stars go tumbling by.. . ~Airstream~
Wabbiteer is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
factory new shell- 2007 Classic? boondockdad 2006 - 2010 Classic (all lengths) 18 09-04-2014 07:39 PM
How big a shell off has been done? tbrom Repairing/Replacing Floor &/or Frame 1 10-12-2006 09:45 AM
Shell on or off??? Bradjun1 Repairing/Replacing Floor &/or Frame 3 09-19-2006 11:19 PM
Shell Off vs Shell On Summary mbatm01 Repairing/Replacing Floor &/or Frame 82 01-09-2006 05:46 PM
Replacing the shell ?? William8979 Repairing/Replacing Floor &/or Frame 2 05-11-2005 08:22 AM


Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by the Airstream, Inc. or any of its affiliates. Airstream is a registered trademark of Airstream Inc. All rights reserved. Airstream trademark used under license to Social Knowledge LLC.



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:03 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.