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06-09-2004, 09:20 AM
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#1
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Guest
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OSB as Flooring
There has been alort of talk about OSB as flooring etc. For those that would like to know more : go to www.osbguide.com. Everything you ever wanted to know and more.
Jack
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06-22-2004, 08:19 PM
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#2
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Rivet Master
1973 31' Sovereign
Portland
, Oregon
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 1,255
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Would you use OSB?
The information at the site that you pointed to does seem pretty informative about the merits of OSB up to a point. I don't recall seeing that it was thourougly compared with various other flooring options - in particular with plywood. I have been giving some thought to using OSB for re-flooring my 1973 31' Sovereign. I found that Lowes carries an 11/16" thick tounge and groove sub-floor panel that looks pretty good. I like the tounge and grove if I can get that to be down the center of the trailer. It is about $29 per sheet which also seems like a pretty good price.
The big questions in my mind for anyone reading this post are:
Would you (or did you) use OSB instead of plywood?
Why or why not?
Would you treat it with any thing additional (expoxy, thompsons, etc.)
Thanks for thinking about it,
Malcolm
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06-22-2004, 08:55 PM
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#3
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Rivet Master
1959 26' Overlander
Putnam
, Connecticut
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 3,064
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I think I would run the seams across the trailer rather than the length. That way each sheet is attached to both main frame members.
I will be coating my floor with clear penetrating epoxy sealer (CPES), but I do tend to over build. This will get a coat of epoxy and then epoxy paint. I hate mold and mildew. In fact we may put in an expoxy floor just like a water yacht.
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06-22-2004, 09:13 PM
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#4
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3 Rivet Member
Austin
, Texas
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 219
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Has anyone ever checked into where Airstream got their single sheets of OSB for the trailer floors? Seems the optimal way to replace an entire floor would be to purchase a single sheet of OSB that extends front to back, side to side, lay it over the frame and then cut it to fit. Joe
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06-22-2004, 09:32 PM
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#5
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3 Rivet Member
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 163
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Speaking for myself, I think A/S went to OSB as a cost cutting measure, I have used both plywood and OSB in different applications, and I have done a lot of home inspections, and OSB just dosen't stand up like plywood, Joe (Barkingspider) even used plywood to do a very nice patch job. It doesn't stand up to water penetration and the tortioning qualities are not as high as plywood, even the cheaper CDX five ply is better in my opinion, of course that's all it is, an opinion.
__________________
Leonard
LotalaborAZ
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06-22-2004, 09:39 PM
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#6
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Rivet Master
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 1,486
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While I am sure OSB is less expensive than plywood, I am not at all sure that is the whole story. I am also not sure plywood has superior properties re water penetration. Plywood hides its failure better, but it still delaminates. And when it does, it buckles. Resistence to warping and buckling may well be the property that caused them to choose OSB.
But I don't know either.
Mark
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06-22-2004, 09:46 PM
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#7
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3 Rivet Member
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 163
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Good point, But if you have a preference delamination is preferable to disintagration, by the way what is a "rare corner double"
__________________
Leonard
LotalaborAZ
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06-22-2004, 10:30 PM
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#8
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Rivet Master
Aurora
, Colorado
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 645
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The web site's own information says, "OSB subfloors... are intended to have an additional layer of flooring material." My experience with OSB is that the material can be penetrated by blunt force. I've seen workers knock holes in 1/2" OSB on purpose with a hammer. That can't easily be done with plywood. I'm sticking with exterior grade plywood for its resistance to water delamination.
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Forrest
Out for coffee!
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06-23-2004, 04:13 AM
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#9
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2 Rivet Member
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 39
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Why wood, even?
Have you guys ever considered using prefabricated panels of aluminum, fiberglass or carbon/kevlar over a core of nomex honeycomb material? They come in 8, 10, and 12 foot lengths and 4ft wide. They're light, tough as nails, don't rot, don't burn and are able to take a bolt or a rivet just fine. They're used in airplane, boat and train manufacturing and look like they might be a good compromise, especially the fiberglass panels over a Nomex core for your interior walls... The full on carbon panels used in R/C applications are prohibitively expensive but the others are widely available as replacement panels and orders as small as six sheets...you can even get the panels custom edged with metal in a variety of configurations.
Just a thought. By the way, I'm not a composites engineer.
__________________
"Few things are impossible to diligence and skill" -Samuel Johnson
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06-23-2004, 04:22 AM
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#10
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Rivet Master
1984 29' Sovereign
Savannah
, Missouri
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 3,478
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For the cost...
Quote:
Originally Posted by IceKing02
Have you guys ever considered using prefabricated panels of aluminum, fiberglass or carbon/kevlar over a core of nomex honeycomb material? They come in 8, 10, and 12 foot lengths and 4ft wide. They're light, tough as nails, don't rot, don't burn and are able to take a bolt or a rivet just fine. They're used in airplane, boat and train manufacturing and look like they might be a good compromise, especially the fiberglass panels over a Nomex core for your interior walls... The full on carbon panels used in R/C applications are prohibitively expensive but the others are widely available as replacement panels and orders as small as six sheets...you can even get the panels custom edged with metal in a variety of configurations.
Just a thought. By the way, I'm not a composites engineer.
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I agree whole-heartly~!!
The time has long since past for Airstream to be continuing the use of wood in the floor..There's no viable reason for them to continue down this path..
I have challeged them on this issue, on several of my visit to the factory..
No one that I've talked to can explain why it continues to be used to this date.
Maybe it high time we drag them screaming into the 21st century~!!
Let's start the ball rolling.
ciao
53FC
__________________
WBCCI 5292 AIR 807
NEU #64
New England Unit
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06-23-2004, 05:41 AM
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#11
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Rivet Master
, Minnesota
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 7,721
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I'm more than willing to be the guinea pig on this one. Will everyone on the forum contribute $$ toward the project?
Cheapest composite sheets I've found were $385 per 4 x 8 sheet. Please let me know if there is a cheaper source for small quantities. Free shipping would be nice too!
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06-23-2004, 06:20 AM
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#12
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Rivet Master
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 1,486
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Quote:
Originally Posted by upallnight
Good point, But if you have a preference delamination is preferable to disintagration, by the way what is a "rare corner double"
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I've had to deal with a small area of rot on my coach. "Rot Doctor" pentrating epoxy took care of it. Would it work as well on delaminated plywood? Again, I don't know, but suspect not.
The corner double bed floorplan is not "rare" as in "desirable", but more like rare as in "unusual". The floorplan can be seen in my photos section. I've never seen another, but two forum members have mentioned they have one as well. If you can stand the corner bed, it provides incredible storage space.
Mark
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06-23-2004, 08:15 AM
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#13
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Patriotic
1973 23' Safari
North of Boston
, Massachusetts
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 4,546
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markdoane
I'm more than willing to be the guinea pig on this one. Will everyone on the forum contribute $$ toward the project?
Cheapest composite sheets I've found were $385 per 4 x 8 sheet. Please let me know if there is a cheaper source for small quantities. Free shipping would be nice too!
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Hmmm....perhaps you've found the reason that the factory is still using wood.
ya think???
__________________
Air:291
Wbcci: 3752
'73 Safari 23'
'00 Dodge Ram 1500 4x4 QC
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06-23-2004, 08:48 AM
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#14
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Rivet Master
1959 26' Overlander
Putnam
, Connecticut
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 3,064
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These are design philosophy issues in part.
1) What are you doing.
Getting it ready to go on short camping trips for a couple of years?
Fulltime for 30 years?
Some point in between these two more likely.
(My design choices for the 59 Overlander are based on a grand tour of the perimeter of North America 2006 including International in Oregon with the least trailer trouble possible. I want 10 days off grid ability. Closer to the second than the first. The Caravel is for the first style.)
I think you have to be honest with yourself about this question first. Prehaps a plywood patch with some bondo would work great for you in terms of cost per use.
For my money how are you going to use your AS is the first question to answer, not the last after it's done.
2) Is this a making it mine issue more than a repair issue. Guys are like male canines. Got to go on stuff to make it their own. If guys were into fabric we would have a lot of post about fabric wear and cleaning potential, what colors fade fast (red) and the like. This is the most direct way to make the AS your own at a reasonable cost. Most guys get dizzy with the "interior design" stuff.
3) What skills, time, and money do you have. With lots of all three you can make one of those 100K AS. Most of us don't have that much of any of the three. Right now time is my big challenge with getting the house ready to paint ( replacing trim). Money and skill will be challenges latter in the project.
Be honest with yourself and avoid alot of frustration which will likely bounce around the house and hit you on the head.
PS. I like the sound of those composite floors . Where is the supplier?
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06-23-2004, 01:29 PM
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#15
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Rivet Master
1978 31' Sovereign
Texas Airstream Harbor
, Zavalla, in the Deep East Texas Piney Woods on Lake Sam Rayburn
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,435
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design philosophy issues - making it mine
Quote:
Originally Posted by psychpw
Is this a making it mine issue more than a repair issue... Guys are like male canines. Got to go on stuff to make it their own..... What skills, time, and money do you have...With lots of all three you can make one of those 100K AS.
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Wellll....I guess it's turned into one of THOSE contests.
Let me load up on some cold adult beverage before I start!
NOW I know why Mary put the Lampeberger in there,
__________________
Dennis
"Suck it up, spend the bucks, do it right the first time."
WBCCI # 1113
AirForums #1737
Trailer '78 31' Sovereign
Living Large at an Airstream Park on the Largest Lake Totally Contained in Texas
Texas Airstream Harbor, Inc.
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06-23-2004, 01:29 PM
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#16
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2 Rivet Member
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 39
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Composite flooring
I did a little looking around and there are multiple suppliers of composite flooring materials. The best place to start is probably Hexcellcomposites.com. They are the outfit that will sell six panel minimums (remember that these are up to twelve feet long). They have the largest variety. They are willing to do custom edges. They are willing to do custom fabrication of sheets--which begs the question about inner arc of the end caps. Are they all the same? If that is so, it would be a CINCH to prefabricate the endcaps and then have variable body lengths. The only catch is in the crossmember supporting systems of which I have no knowledge (as I have yet to own an AS--sniff, sniff...small tear forming). When AS says that the shell is a monocoque construction they don't mention the floor or frame materials. If you guys can shoot me a picture or two of the frame minus floor, of the shell bottom and of the mating surfaces it would be of much help. I can't help but to think that producing or contracting to produce a line of composite panels would be possible at a reasonable cost. With AS trailers being a long-term investment it would seem to me that this technology would be a reasonable alternative to "sticks". Shoot me your feedback on this subject if you guys have real interest in this area. Especially if there are folks with some composites, engineering or business acumen. Take care!
__________________
"Few things are impossible to diligence and skill" -Samuel Johnson
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06-23-2004, 06:04 PM
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#17
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418
2007 25' Safari FB SE
1958 22' Flying Cloud
1974 29' Ambassador
Yucca Valley
, California
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: 1963 26' Overlander
Posts: 4,804
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06-23-2004, 06:14 PM
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#18
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Rivet Master
1984 29' Sovereign
Savannah
, Missouri
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 3,478
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Neither ~
I couldn't get there either but...
I did a little detective work, and found this:
http://www.composites.com/main.htm
if you read around on this site..It offer some kewl insights.
ciao
53FC
__________________
WBCCI 5292 AIR 807
NEU #64
New England Unit
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06-23-2004, 06:38 PM
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#19
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Rivet Master
, Minnesota
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 7,721
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Really cool site. Here's a new contest: Develop a 'usable' panel that costs less than $700 per 4x8 sheet, using the tools on that site.
(Note: their panels are 4' x 38', so it might work best for Airstreams less than 22' overall)
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06-23-2004, 10:38 PM
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#20
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3 Rivet Member
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 163
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Quote:
Originally Posted by j54mark
I've had to deal with a small area of rot on my coach. "Rot Doctor" pentrating epoxy took care of it. Would it work as well on delaminated plywood? Again, I don't know, but suspect not.
The corner double bed floorplan is not "rare" as in "desirable", but more like rare as in "unusual". The floorplan can be seen in my photos section. I've never seen another, but two forum members have mentioned they have one as well. If you can stand the corner bed, it provides incredible storage space.
Mark
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Thanks Mark, I'll take alook. Never heard of that floor plan.
__________________
Leonard
LotalaborAZ
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