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Old 02-08-2011, 11:24 AM   #201
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Nyloboard expansion

Hi all,
I enlisted the help of a plastics expert with over 40yrs experience in the biz to help figure this out. He was extremely helpful and took time out of his busy day to answer my questions. I didn't consider that the aluminum is expanding too - good point. His reply is copied below:

I would use this Plexiglas acrylic coefficient:

Product Inches/Foot/100 °F
Plexiglas® sheet .062
Aluminum .016

31 ft x 0.062 = 1.9 inches
31 ft x 0.016 = 0.50 inches

The floor will expand about 1.40” more than the aluminum frame over a 100F temp change.
BUT – keep in mind that you’ll be installing at 70F or so.
SO – when you pull that baby out to Death Valley, and the floor gets to 110F – that’s a 40F change
(31 x 0.062 x .40 ) – (31 x 0.016 x .40) = 0.7688 - 0.198 = 0.57 inches of floor expansion compared to the frame over the entire 31 ft.
And shrinkage when it gets to 32F freezing… looks like about 1/8” per 48x96 sheet either way.

Nylon has a coefficient about 15% greater than Acrylic – the bottom line is that you would lay down the Nyloboard with a small gap between the sheets – use a silicone sealant that can expand and contract to keep the seal. Maybe an “H” channel to allow the sheets to move?

Make sense?

As far as the UHMW material, we are seeing a lot of applications in the Marine Industry using a HDPE product called SeaBoard.
Of course, it expands even MORE than Nylon… but remember, it’s all relative to the aluminum framing!


I would think .57" over an entire 31' floor is acceptable, and in the 4' section I have to do the expansion would be negligible.
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Old 02-08-2011, 11:27 AM   #202
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I like the idea of the expansion joints. After all, isnt that the way they build suspension bridges? Sal.
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Old 02-08-2011, 11:40 AM   #203
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Those kind of movements are bad mojo - plexiglass is rarely anchored stationary, everything is slotted and the edge frames have large overlap depth. Usually one point will end up binding and everything else 'has tides' against that point.

Will someone with Nyloboard full sheet or long scraps please measure it cold and hot? Even shaded 70°F to full sun 120°F and accurate to 1/32" should settle whether the OEM has the additives and process to damp shrink & heave...
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Old 02-08-2011, 12:48 PM   #204
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RaleighAir View Post
Hi all,
I enlisted the help of a plastics expert with over 40yrs experience in the biz to help figure this out.
Did your friend take into account that the Nyloboard product in glassfiber reinforced? This table shows the thermal expansion for a large list of common materials. Note as and example, from the list the value listed for glass fiber reinforced polypropylene is 1/3 of that listed for plain polypropylene. Assuming this holds true for the glass fiber reinforced Nyloboard product, per your example, there would only be a 1/16" difference in expansion over the 31' trailer length between the aluminum and the Nyloboard.


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Will someone with Nyloboard full sheet or long scraps please measure it cold and hot? Even shaded 70°F to full sun 120°F and accurate to 1/32" should settle whether the OEM has the additives and process to damp shrink & heave...
I have access to a trailer in the process of being restored that has a full floor of Nyloboard. Here in WI, we are expecting temps of minus 8 degrees F overnight. The floor was installed in 70 degree weather. If there is a significant expansion variation between the floor/shell or floor/frame materials it will be VERY noticeable. I'll report back.
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Old 02-08-2011, 01:39 PM   #205
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Wouldnt a plywood floor be subject to expansion/contraction? Especially if it gets wet? Sal.
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Old 02-08-2011, 02:04 PM   #206
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Nyloboard is recycled carpet. I imagine if you have carpet in your trailer and it catches on fire you will get the same chemical fumes. I am not going to worry about a fire creating smoke that can kill you. If the trailer catches on fire everything burning in there can kill you. I do know Nyloboard is water and mold resistant.

They used to have all of the specs on their old website. I don't know why they took them down. I searched and found homes being built with Nyloboard and they are using it on boats. It gets good reviews.

If you guys are not sure with the product just use marine plywood. It is all good.

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Old 02-08-2011, 03:54 PM   #207
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There is a Wayback Machine that snapshots the internet - sometimes its complete, sometimes not... Here's a link to maybe their old website...

Internet Archive Wayback Machine
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Old 02-11-2011, 11:16 AM   #208
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I'll report back.

Several days ago I shlogged through the high snow banks to visit the interior of my friends '58 Overlander. The complete nyloboard floor is intact without any gaps at the seams greater than 1/16". Most seams are fully tight. The day I visited was approximately 75 degrees colder than the day this floor was installed.

I hope that satisfies anybody's curiosity regarding "shrinkage" and/or expansion as compared to plywood.
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Old 02-11-2011, 11:51 AM   #209
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Steve:

Living in Waukesha wisconsin qualifies you as an expert of cold weather. BBBRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!! We just sold my mom's cottage in Minoqua. I love Wisconsin. Best place for a Georgian to visit in July. Go from 100 degrees to a blistering 82 degrees in Minoqua.

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Old 02-12-2011, 06:41 AM   #210
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I finally cut and installed my nyloboard across the rear 3 feet of my 91' limited. Since my sheet was 3/4" I used an electric plane to finish the edge to 5/8" - it worked great with no smoke, chipping or other problems. Cutting and drilling was a breeze. I will of course reseal the bumper storage area etc since no leaks is the preferred state, BUT, if they do occur again in the future I wont have the floor rot, mold, mildew mess I have just corrected.
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Old 02-12-2011, 07:06 AM   #211
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Looks like a great fix. I am also glad to hear about the minimal shrinkage over a 75 degree change.
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Old 10-03-2011, 10:44 PM   #212
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Digging into this one again, reviewing my options on the flooring. Looks like they are adding additional products onto the list, such as decking boards and trim. What we're talking about is now called "NyloSheet". They're also advertising it heavily for RV and boating use too.

They also put a lot more onto the datasheet, including a lot of what you guys have been asking. So I'll quote over some of what is on the Nylosheet datasheet. There is some variation between the G1/G2/G4 sheeting, so I'll quote just the G4 stuff here as it's most relevant.

Mold Resistance: ASTM D 3274: 10 rating
Fungal Resistance: ASTM D 1413: No Decay
Termite Resistance: AWPA E-1-97: 10 rating
Smoke and Flame Spread: ASTM E84: Class B smoke
Screw Retention 1/2": ASTM D1037: 512 lbf
Flexural Moe 1/2": ASTM D790: 464k psi

And the biggie that we've all been waiting for.
Coefficient of Thermal Expansion:
ASTM D696: 0.64 x 10-5 in/in/degree F

Now, I have no idea if these are good numbers or not, time to dig into the ASTM standards compared to other materials.

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Old 10-03-2011, 11:21 PM   #213
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Found some more expansion rates based on the D696 standard
Nylon: .447x10^5 (which explains the low expansion of the nylon based boards)
Corian: 1.8x10^5
Lexcel Polycarbonate: 3.75x10^5
Teflon: 9.8x10^5 (wow!)

Metals seem to be commonly listed slightly different, at the 10^6 instead of 10^5,, so I hope I have these conversions correct and that my math skills haven't atrophied too badly. (Just move the decimal one spot left, correct?)
Aluminum 1.37x10^5 to 1.17^5, depending on alloy
Steel .86x10^5 to .63x10^5, depending on alloy

Now, for some woods. (Couldn't find any plywood data in imperial measure)
Pine: .28x10^5
Oak: .30x10^5

If I'm getting my math and research right, the Nyloboard will expand at a rate very similar to steel, and less than aluminum. Probably a good thing, as it's bolted to the frame not the shell, correct? It's also a better match, from a thermal expansion standpoint, than the wood data that I'm finding.
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Old 10-04-2011, 02:55 AM   #214
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I have had mine in my trailer for several years now and It is been through Georgia heat and Illinois freezing. Still looks like new and holding up. My scrap piece has still been sitting out side for several years and it still is like new.

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Old 11-01-2011, 07:12 AM   #215
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I'm contemplating what I should use.....the question is: How long will I keep this trailer - even if I want to sell it, I need to fix the floor or lose $$$$. What about this Sign Board? Where does that come from?
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Old 11-01-2011, 07:29 AM   #216
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They have a website called Nyloboard. They sell to dealers. They are 30 minutes down the road from me. I hear they don't sell out of the factory anymore (that is where I got mine). Very expensive, but I have total confidence in its durability and how long it will last. No more rot in the bathroom.

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Old 11-01-2011, 08:51 AM   #217
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Nyloboard - for the material cost ($220x6) alone I could've done 4-plus 27-foot trailers using the MDO panels I found. Sounds like a great product if they didn't price it out of reach for most of us; the factory direct outlet angle sure made that tempting back when it was a smaller premium over Marine Plywoods etc..

Sign Board has a hundred different flavors since its a generic term, there are plastic and foam and masonite cored panels, aluminum foil covers, etc.

What I used can also be called as concrete form panels - its truer label was medium density overlay (MDO) panel, "Signal MDO". Olympic Panel Products - Sign Making

I still haven't seen this stuff age and weather yet, but I have invested the time in 5 coats (3 primer & 2 porch floor) of paint before I install it.

I only found mine after a half-day of googling keywords and calling around and found it 20~ miles away at an old-time lumber yard on the far side of Minneapolis that sells to sign-makers too. You might try contacting local advertising sign makers to see where they purchase from - $42 a 4x8 sheet of true 3/4" (not something-64th) made using this a no-brainer on my part when big-box stores are asking $30-35 for their 3/4-nominal plywoods...
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