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04-24-2011, 06:10 PM
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#1
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Rivet Master
1957 22' Caravanner
1960 26' Overlander
1963 24' Tradewind
El Paso
, Texas
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 945
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How does my rear end look?
Hey all.
I'm hoping for some advice on my 77 Sovereign rear bath and rear end separation.I've already swapped out the axles and so now I'm ready to tackle what I thought was some rear end separation going on.Now I'm thinking that I have some damage due to the rear end being dragged or bottoming out on a driveway.
My question is.How does my rear end look and any advice on how to fix?????
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04-24-2011, 06:15 PM
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#2
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Rivet Master
1974 31' Excella 500
Charleston
, South Carolina
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 1,073
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Wheelie wheels.
__________________
As I grow older, I pay less attention to what men say. I just watch what they do.
- Andrew Carnegie
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04-24-2011, 06:21 PM
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#3
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Rivet Master
Airstream Dealer
Corona
, California
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 16,497
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Quote:
Originally Posted by desertair27
Hey all.
I'm hoping for some advice on my 77 Sovereign rear bath and rear end separation.I've already swapped out the axles and so now I'm ready to tackle what I thought was some rear end separation going on.Now I'm thinking that I have some damage due to the rear end being dragged or bottoming out on a driveway.
My question is.How does my rear end look and any advice on how to fix????? Attachment 128029
Attachment 128030
Attachment 128031
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The wheels damage the rear end every time they hit a bump, especially the quarter panels.
That's why Airstream installed the "skid plates".
Andy
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04-24-2011, 06:26 PM
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#4
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Master of Universe
2008 25' Safari FB SE
Grand Junction
, Colorado
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 12,702
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Is that girder attached to the trailer,or is it resting on it for some reason?
If it is attached, your rear end is too big*.
I have no experience with something like that, but whatever the cause, it needs work, possibly the same work for a separation anyway. That means bracing inside and out. What does the inside look like?
Gene
*A friend's wife actually asked me years ago if her rear end was too big. He had told me a few weeks before she had asked the same thing and he replied, "yes, it's the biggest one I've ever seen". It was big and I replied, "yes, it's the biggest one I've ever seen". Never asked again. We were very happy for him when they divorced.
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04-24-2011, 06:28 PM
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#5
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Rivet Master
1957 22' Caravanner
1960 26' Overlander
1963 24' Tradewind
El Paso
, Texas
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 945
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Hey Andy
So do I not have any kind of separation?I thought the wheels were a good idea even though they were already installed.I'll be taking those suckers off right away.Is the skidplate considered the channel the wheel is welded to?
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04-24-2011, 07:05 PM
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#6
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Always learning
1972 29' Ambassador
1962 19' Globetrotter
1951 21' Flying Cloud
Central
, Texas
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 2,881
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desertair,
Your rear doesn't look all that bad to me. I'd just remove the training wheels and treat the wood with some epoxy or spar varnish and enjoy your camper. This is what real rear end separation looks like.
__________________
Lance
Work is never done, so take time to play!
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04-24-2011, 07:12 PM
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#7
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Rivet Master
Currently Looking...
1984 31' Airstream310
Ajo
, Arizona
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 7,649
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I've never thought those "trainers" were a good idea. I have given the nut on my trailer ball a "scrape" or two (o.k., more than a few).
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04-24-2011, 07:18 PM
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#8
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Rivet Master
Airstream Dealer
Corona
, California
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 16,497
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Quote:
Originally Posted by desertair27
Hey Andy
So do I not have any kind of separation?I thought the wheels were a good idea even though they were already installed.I'll be taking those suckers off right away.Is the skidplate considered the channel the wheel is welded to?
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Hard to tell, but you may have a little separation.
Jump up and down on the frame, and see if there is any movement at the top of the frame. If so, bad news, if not then good news.
The skid plates are what the wheels are mounted to.
Andy
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04-24-2011, 07:21 PM
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#9
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Rivet Master
1957 22' Caravanner
1960 26' Overlander
1963 24' Tradewind
El Paso
, Texas
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 945
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Thanks guys and I'm taking the wheels off asap.
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04-24-2011, 08:06 PM
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#10
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Rivet Master
2009 27' FB International
Los Angeles
, California
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 731
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Training wheels... not good
When I first got my AS a few weeks ago, I also thought the wheels were a good idea so I wouldn't scrape up the back end (all of the SOBs I rented had them). Thankfully I posted a question before I made any modifications and got great advice "Don't Add Wheels!". Although we have only had our AS a short time, we haven't hit bottom yet. Even pulling into areas our rental SOBs would bottom out on. As everyone else has told you, get rid of the wheels and enjoy our restoration project.
__________________
Scott, Becky & Heidi (our standard poodle and travel companion)
WBCCI #1215
Air #54601
Remember... No matter where you go, there you are...
2009 27FB International Ocean Breeze
2010 Toyota Tundra CrewMax, 5.7L V8, 4x4
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04-24-2011, 08:26 PM
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#11
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Rivet Master
1979 31' Sovereign
Northeastern
, Kentucky
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 627
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Inland RV Center, In
The wheels damage the rear end every time they hit a bump, especially the quarter panels.
That's why Airstream installed the "skid plates".
Andy
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Just curious....how come the wheels cause more problems than just the skid plate alone when the weight of the rear end bottoms out?
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04-24-2011, 08:48 PM
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#12
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Rivet Master
1967 26' Overlander
Winston Salem
, North Carolina
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 524
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Hi,
Just looking at the pics,
the rear end looks pretty good in comparison to some of the other units on here.
If no rot, I would remove the old insulation, seal the floor with varnish or some kind of product, paint the rear frame, seal the gaps with vulcuem or par-bond, and put it back together and use it.
__________________
Greg
Winston Salem, NC
WBCCI 5218,
Corresponding Secretary Piedmont NC Unit 161,
1967 Overlander International.
1979 Avion 30ft rear bath
TV's 88 Chevy Suburban 454, 3:42, TH400
95 Cadillac FW Brougham, LT1,3:42, 7k tow pk.
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04-24-2011, 10:50 PM
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#13
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Maniacal Engineer
1971 25' Tradewind
Lopez Island
, Washington
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,244
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KYAirstream
Just curious....how come the wheels cause more problems than just the skid plate alone when the weight of the rear end bottoms out?
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Well, first of all they bottom out more frequently since they're lower,
and these are mounted off to the side, cantilevered off of the skid plates and are causing the skid plates to bend.
Bottoming the rear of the trailer hard puts stress on the rear of the trailer; remember that Airstream frames (esp. of this vintage and size) are quite flexible. The body ends up taking a lot of the load, and this is Not Good.
Give those skid plates a lick of paint every so often, and don't worry about 'em. If you wear one out, any competent welder can rebuild them.
- Bart
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05-10-2011, 11:19 PM
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#14
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Rivet Master
1957 22' Caravanner
1960 26' Overlander
1963 24' Tradewind
El Paso
, Texas
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 945
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So I have some separation for sure.Standing on the frame allows me to see movement.shouldn't the plywood floor edge be covered up by the upper skin?Is my frame sagging or bent?
I've included pictures of both sides.
Help!
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05-11-2011, 06:01 AM
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#15
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Always learning
1972 29' Ambassador
1962 19' Globetrotter
1951 21' Flying Cloud
Central
, Texas
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 2,881
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Desertair,
The skin should cover the edge of the plywood, but it is just how it is put together at the factory. On my '72 the plywood on the street side is covered, but not the curb side. It looks to me that you have a fairly solid connection between the frame, sub floor and C-channel. It doesn't appear to have any sag from the pictures. If it were my trailer, I'd clean everything up really well, treat the wood with epoxy or spar varnish, use a good rust inhibiting/preventive coating like POR 15 or Eastwood for the frame, put it all back together and go camping. I started the repairs on Abby January 3rd and I'm just now getting to putting the interior back in. Removing and re installing the bathroom in one of these old girls is a lot of time consuming work.
__________________
Lance
Work is never done, so take time to play!
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05-11-2011, 06:33 AM
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#16
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Rivet Master
1957 22' Caravanner
1960 26' Overlander
1963 24' Tradewind
El Paso
, Texas
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 945
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Top
Should I raise the frame with my floorjack to line up the existing holes where the skin rivets to the metal c channel?I would think the rivets would rip through the skin.Or do I just rivet it back together where the two materials meet as in the pictures.I think the wood floor lined up with the upper skin at one point and time.
Thanks for your advice and keep up the good work!Abby looks fantastic and I really enjoy reading up on your progress with her.
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05-11-2011, 07:18 AM
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#17
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Always learning
1972 29' Ambassador
1962 19' Globetrotter
1951 21' Flying Cloud
Central
, Texas
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 2,881
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Desertair,
Jacking up the frame to level is a good idea. I recommend you use a closed end rivet to secure the skin to the C channel. Solid (buck) rivets are the best, but you don't have access to the back side. You could also use some self drilling/tapping screws from the bottom to secure the wood to the C channel. When you have the exterior skin, the C channel, the sub floor and the frame all securely fastened together, you are winning!
__________________
Lance
Work is never done, so take time to play!
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05-11-2011, 07:33 AM
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#18
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Master of Universe
2008 25' Safari FB SE
Grand Junction
, Colorado
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 12,702
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I am under the impression the fix for this involves braces inside and patches on the outside ("elephant ears"). At the factory I have read they don't do the inside braces unless you insist. I only know anything from reading some posts and have no actual knowledge, but if it separated I would think you have to repair it in a manner that makes it stronger than the original way it was built.
Gene
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05-19-2011, 03:53 PM
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#19
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Rivet Master
1957 22' Caravanner
1960 26' Overlander
1963 24' Tradewind
El Paso
, Texas
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 945
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Hey Gene,
I heard the elephant ears fix was a temporary fix at best.
I've been working on treating any rust on my frame with the por-15 and I found some spar varnish in a spray can and I'm treating the bottom side and edges of the flooring with 3 coats.I've got some closed end rivets on the way from fastenal along with some assorted solid rivets (buck rivets) to play with.I'm really close to reattaching the outer skin to the C channel.I've tightened the 3/8 bolts that hold flooring to the C channel and that all looks good.
My question for today is after removing the insulation that is between the belly pan and flooring,which didn't look bad at all.Should I replace it with some stryofoam insulation or is there a material of choice.Hot desert climate with mostly mild winters here where I'm at.
I'll include some pictures on the next post.
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05-19-2011, 04:54 PM
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#20
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Always learning
1972 29' Ambassador
1962 19' Globetrotter
1951 21' Flying Cloud
Central
, Texas
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 2,881
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Desertair,
There are many options and opinions when it comes to insulation. Check out this thread that was started by Zep and continued on by BoatDoc. It gets really technical. I used two layers of 1" Dow Tuff-R polyiso on the underside of the flooring on my '72. I chose that just because there are a few restorers that use it. It is expensive and hard to find. I had holes that were about six inches in diameter in the floor, so she'll be a lot better off. You only have a small ammount to insulate so, some good styrofoam or the fiberglass stuff will be just fine I believe.
__________________
Lance
Work is never done, so take time to play!
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