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Old 09-24-2003, 01:11 PM   #101
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Re: Rivets

Quote:
Originally posted by markdoane
Then I'd check very carefully. The body rivet holes I removed would pass a 5/32 drill bit, maybe a little tight which I assumed was work hardening. Very loose with a 1/8"
Also, I think "Modified" Brazier heads are the closest in head size to what I took off.
Hmmm Look at this thread. This is where I got the 1/8 from.
http://www.airforums.com/forum...ght=drill+bits
Now the weird thing is Andy sells a 5/32 drill bit in this thread.
http://www.airforums.com/forum...ght=drill+bits
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Old 09-24-2003, 03:46 PM   #102
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Again, I'd wait until you get a lot of them drilled out, then check the hole sizes. I was very careful not to wallow out the holes. Many of them I would pop the head off with a #21, then switch to a #30 to drill out the stem. This left a nice clean hole. When I carefuly removed what was left of the stem, the hole was a lot bigger than 1/8. The ones that were slightly smaller than 5/32" I assume are from "shrinking" the aluminum as the rivet head is worked.
When rivets are installed, we assume that the rivet tail expands to fill the open space between the tail and the hole. That's true, but there is also a slight amount of cold flow of skin aluminum toward the rivet shaft. This is my explanation for why some of the holes were a few thou smaller than 5/32.
Anyway, I planned to ream all the holes out to 5/32, rather than have some loose and some tight.
The Mod. Brazier head rivets have the same head size as the rivets I took out.
Let me know. Maybe they ran out of 1/8" rivets the day they built mine, and had to use the next larger size. I know for a fact that the belly and side skins of my tradewind have never been repaired or modified
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Old 09-24-2003, 04:08 PM   #103
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If the 1/8 drill is not a tight fit you should ream holes to 5/32.That would be a MS20470-AD5-6 rivet. The formula for rivet lengh is the thickness of the material riveted plus 1 1/2 times the diameter of the rivet used.That works out to about a 5 1/2.The length is in 16ths.
The tool you bought is used to trim the rivets to the correct length.
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Old 09-24-2003, 05:06 PM   #104
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Greg: Thanks for the part number. Why did you go with Universal head (MS20470) instead of the modified Brazier (MS20456)? I think the mod. Brazier looks more like the original.
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Old 09-24-2003, 05:19 PM   #105
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The ms20470 rivets are the ones I can get cheap here.
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Old 09-24-2003, 05:43 PM   #106
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Cheap is good. I like cheap. Keep up the good work. How is your project going, eh?
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Old 09-24-2003, 06:07 PM   #107
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The frame is a real mess.I will have to wait till I,m on afternoon shift again(two weeks) till I have time to visit local suppliers and figure out what my options are.
The frame main c channel is rotted pretty bad by the front jalousie window (40 years of leaking).I can rebuild it with lots of work for cheap or pay a couple thousand for a new frame.I am keeping trailer on frame right now as I have no place to put it and I will need it for shelter as rain will be starting here soon.It is a bit of a problem as I would like to tow frame around to local trailer repair outfit and maybe to a place where they rent a big sanblaster.
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Old 09-24-2003, 07:12 PM   #108
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Quote:
Originally posted by greg176
The frame is a real mess.I will have to wait till I,m on afternoon shift again(two weeks) till I have time to visit local suppliers and figure out what my options are.
The frame main c channel is rotted pretty bad by the front jalousie window (40 years of leaking).I can rebuild it with lots of work for cheap or pay a couple thousand for a new frame.I am keeping trailer on frame right now as I have no place to put it and I will need it for shelter as rain will be starting here soon.It is a bit of a problem as I would like to tow frame around to local trailer repair outfit and maybe to a place where they rent a big sanblaster.
Greg:
How far are you from Surrey? I have an internet buddy that was working fabricating trailers in that area. He's the guy I pester when I have welding questions. Any way I am going to send him a link to your other post and find out where exactly the place is he works. I'll get you that info.
I'll let you know something soon.
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Old 09-25-2003, 06:03 AM   #109
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I'm only a few miles from Surrey. Would appreciate any info.
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Old 09-25-2003, 06:18 AM   #110
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Quote:
Originally posted by greg176
I'm only a few miles from Surrey. Would appreciate any info.
Just heard from him. He is not longer doing trailer work, he is now doing tooling. Here is where he recomended in the area.

Quote:
I don't work at the trailer place anymore. The place I work at now builds aircraft tooling. Right now we're doing a ton of tooling and support platforms for the new Airbus A-380 in Spain.

If I were him I'd go down to a place called LangFab, it's a little ways outside of Vancouver but they don't mind doing small jobs or dealing with the public. I'd get some new cross members formed at the very least, or even look at towing the old frame down there and having them copy it with all new steel.

The guys to talk to are either Joe or Adrian...it's been quite a while since I worked there but they aren't the type of place to rip a guy off. Their main bread and butter is gravel trucks and stuff, but they also build small flat decks and other custom work too. Hell, if I wasn't so darn busy with work and stuff I'd build him a new frame myself.

LangFab :604-530-7227

www.langfab.com

Rene
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Old 09-25-2003, 07:11 AM   #111
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Thanks for info. I wil definitely go by there when I get the frame loose.
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Old 09-25-2003, 09:28 AM   #112
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Lengthen Hitch

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Got a little help from Ultradog diagnosing my frame. He discovered there is another length of tubing INSIDE the front tongue. We don't know where it starts and ends, but you should know about this for designing your new front assembly.
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Old 09-25-2003, 10:33 AM   #113
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Re: Lengthen Hitch

Quote:
Originally posted by markdoane
Toaster:
Got a little help from Ultradog diagnosing my frame. He discovered there is another length of tubing INSIDE the front tongue. We don't know where it starts and ends, but you should know about this for designing your new front assembly.
Well isn't that special!


Hmmmmm makes you wonder about a lot of things.

There are no rossette welds anywhere to hold it in place?

Try tapping on the frame with a hammer and see if you can tell where it starts and ends from the sound.

The tube has been hammerd flat on ours up under the hitch. Have to pry it open and see whats in there.

I may have a bent frame behind the axle on ours. Looking at the underside the belly pan seems to be concave in the center. With the mess the floor is inside I can't tell yet. I'm not going to know for sure till I get the floor up and the bell pan off. There is also a hole drilled through the frame for a drain from the vanitly sinke in the same area it appears the worst.

That little trick there may make for a very simple way to take car of the problem if it is indeed bent. I can pull it straight and drive a peice in up to the bend and double the strenght of the frame in the process.

Thanks for the heads up.
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Old 09-25-2003, 10:44 AM   #114
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We looked but didn't see any rosettes or evidence of plug welds. Like yours, my outer tube is hammered flat at the end under the hitch assbly. I think maybe the inner tube goes back to the bend, may be tied in where the guard plate is on inside of the bends. The forward end may be where the tube is bent in to match the angle of the hitch
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Old 09-25-2003, 12:41 PM   #115
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Mark:


Was it you that mentions a sealer product that you used on a boat from West marine? WHat was the brand name? Going to pick up some tomorrow.
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Old 09-25-2003, 01:51 PM   #116
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It was the West System 105 resin and the 206 slow hardener.
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Old 09-25-2003, 02:03 PM   #117
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Quote:
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It was the West System 105 resin and the 206 slow hardener.
Thanks!
Any idea on how long it needs to dry befroe you can handle it? I'm going to seal the full sheets then dress the edges after I have the deck on and the holes for plumbing cut.
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Old 09-25-2003, 02:28 PM   #118
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An hour should do it.Even with slow hardener the stuff sets up pretty quick.Mix it up in small batches about two cups at a time and use it right away it starts to set up in just a few minutes.
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Old 09-25-2003, 02:31 PM   #119
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Thanks for info on epoxy. Ordered fame pieces and new crossmembers today and started grinding of the excess stuff from the frame. Stuff like anti-sway ballsocket and mounting plates for load springs. Taking of the front crossmember and plate, first two outriggers, rear crossmember, and one in the middle where the new greywater tank is going.
Recieved sample of COMDECO plastic floor today. Comparing the flex modulus, looks like I can make it work with maybe an extra stringer or two. Or not, haven't got prices yet.
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Old 09-25-2003, 06:34 PM   #120
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I have used System Three & West System products in boatbuilding applications. Applications in aviation and other wood systems are also appropriate. Many hardware store epoxies are not necessarily waterproof. Be sure and wear disposable gloves (nitrile fit well and are available at our farm/hardware outlets). Mix it in old yogurt containers or other unwaxed disposables. Cheap foam brushes work well for application.

There are some strong particulars at every stage. Cleanliness is a plus in working with epoxy. It is a potent sensitizer and once an individual reacts they can not work near the stuff again. Mixing large pots produces heat which greatly impacts handling and success. Mechanical finishing of epoxied surfaces produces heat and you should wear a paint spray respirator (not a paper mist/dust mask). Painting epoxied surfaces needs specific products and technique.

My old reliable for good background info is available online at www.systemthree.com . Select 'Literature' and fill out the form to access the downloadable pdf file, "The Epoxy Book." I think you will appreciate this for the clear and broad recommendations provided.
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