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Alwhisman · 09-06-2009, 08:15 PM

I certainly hope they take care of it for you. Along with everyone else here, look to hearing, as Paul Harvey would say "the rest of the story"

Good Luck

Al

JK3500 · 09-07-2009, 07:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by excella80

I am working on restoring a 1980 Excella and am trying to figure out how to repair some sagging out riggers. My sagging out riggers seem to be a result of the main frame beams being torqued over. Are your outriggers actually sagging or is the frame torquing over? Does any one have any other pictures of the repair that the factory did? Are they repairing just the out rigger or are the beefing up the frame so it can not twist over?

Thanks for the Help,
Brad

Brad,

Not sure exactly why my outriggers sagged. Frankly, it may have been the force of my WD bars constantly slamming the trailer downward.

Attached are some photos of the "fix" Airstream implemented (this in addition to the repairs to the frame and the "frame stiffener kit" they installed. The first two are on on the curbside forward of the axles looking toward the rear. The third is the same outrigger but looking at is from the rear. The last is on the roadside, forward of the axle, looking at it fron the rear. As far as whether it has been effective all I can say is the outriggers have not appeared to sag any more than they already were.

Finallhy started traveling with the trailer again, about 1500 miles in the last two months. So far so good (I look under the frame after every trip). Frame seems to be holding up and I am not seeing any of the past indications of rough ride in the interior (busted rivets, items strewn about, etc). jk

bgabrielse · 09-07-2009, 04:43 PM

Thanks for the pictures JK.

Brad

rickandsandi · 09-28-2009, 05:33 AM

While at a rally this part weekend, one of the forum mods came up and asked me if I was aware of this thread. I said no and decided to check it out this morning. I am now concerned with our Safari 22 built in 2004. We have well over 32K on it and never noticed any problems worth writing down as far as the frame. But now that I think of it there have been a fw times once the AS is all set up that the bath door sometimes seems out of alignment with the door fram. I will have to get under the trailer tonight and start looking around. Any special things other than already noted that I should be looking out for?
Rick

JK3500 · 09-29-2009, 05:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rickandsandi

While at a rally this part weekend, one of the forum mods came up and asked me if I was aware of this thread. I said no and decided to check it out this morning. I am now concerned with our Safari 22 built in 2004. We have well over 32K on it and never noticed any problems worth writing down as far as the frame. But now that I think of it there have been a fw times once the AS is all set up that the bath door sometimes seems out of alignment with the door fram. I will have to get under the trailer tonight and start looking around. Any special things other than already noted that I should be looking out for?
Rick

Because of the belly wrap, it is difficult to see any damage to the frame until that damage extends to to the bottom of the frame rail. This occurred on mine and was obvious as a crack along the bottom of the frame. In my situation the damage occurred directly in front of the axles. I believe Don Gubrud's frame damage occurred directly behind the axles (correct me if I am wrong).

The other telltale signs I had were noted inside the trailer and indicative of a rough ride and too much flex on the frame and trailer. Busted interior rivets (more than a few), screws regularly working themselves out, the dinette benches constantly coming loose from either the floor or the skin, cabinet doors coming open while towing. I also had a number of leaks I had to fix which could be unrelated but may also have been other indications of the shell taking too much stress from the frame flexing. I had to replace both Fantastic fans as the bases of both fans were cracked in numerous places causing leaks. If I had that problem alone I might chaulk it up to a faulty instal but combined with everything else leads me to believe they may be related.

A few others here with 22' Internationals have experienced some of the signs noted above but it has not gone so far as to crack the frame (some have had the frame stiffener plates installed). It appears also that this particular problem is specifically with the 22' International models (I haven't noted anyone with 22' Safaris on the forums with this problem). The older ones like Don Gubrud's with the rear kitchen seem to have too much weight behind the axles. Later models have a redesigned interior with a desk in the rear and supposedly incorporated a frame fix to strengthen it (though not enough). Both of the models have a open floor plan with very little "infrastructure" on the curb side of the trailer. This appears to allow the curb side frame more flex than the roadside and seems to be a contributor as most of my damage occurred on the curb side. That doesn't take away the main issue that the frame is marginally adequate at best to support the weight of the trailer. Add a tow vehicle larger than a station wagon and properly weighted WD bars and....

I am no structural engineer. The opinions above are the results of my experiences along with what I have read about other's experiences here on the forums.

dongubrud · 09-29-2009, 06:58 AM

JK
that was a very good and accurate responce. there is not much i can add exept that my first indication of a problem was the curb side of the trailer started to tilt. that was caused by the outriggers bending down because the frame cracked and the brackets could not hold up the body on there own. my problems started at about 50k miles or so. my advice rick... if you don't have any frame problems now, sell it!

JK3500 · 09-29-2009, 07:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DON GUBRUD

JK
that was a very good and accurate responce. there is not much i can add exept that my first indication of a problem was the curb side of the trailer started to tilt. that was caused by the outriggers bending down because the frame cracked and the brackets could not hold up the body on there own. my problems started at about 50k miles or so. my advice rick... if you don't have any frame problems now, sell it!

Good point Don. Forgot about the outriggers. Mine also are drooped down on the curbside. They don't appear to be dropping anymore since the last repair but only time will tell. jk

Airstray · 09-27-2010, 07:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aage

Don sent me the photos he has with the note, "I did not take good pics but this is my last frame crack problem. I did not take pics of the first failure, a total frame collapse or my second failure, all of the outriggers bending and cracking the frame."

Here are his photos.

Don, make any comments you'd like to.

Don, I'm having the exact same problem on my '03 22ft. International CCD. I just bought it with no warranty, of course, and noticed the step was not level. I checked the outriggers and discovered they were sagging and had cracked the frame. Did you get any satisfaction from Airstream? What recourse do we have if our trailers are out of warranty? Airstray

Airstray · 09-27-2010, 07:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inland RV Center, In

Don.

I did not call you back, because I am waiting on some info from Airstream about your trailer.

As soon as I have that, I will call you.

What is the rating of your axles?

Andy

Andy, I have the same problem as Don. Sagging outriggers and cracked frame. I just purchased my '03 22ft. International CCd and pulled it to Utah and back. My TV is a Ram 3500 Diesel but I didn't have any sway problems pulling it without a WD hitch. I took a reese twin cam hitch with me but didn't need it. What recourse do we, ('03-'07, 22ft.) Airstream owners have? Airstray

clancy_boy · 09-27-2010, 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Airstray

Don, I'm having the exact same problem on my '03 22ft. International CCD. I just bought it with no warranty, of course, and noticed the step was not level. I checked the outriggers and discovered they were sagging and had cracked the frame. Did you get any satisfaction from Airstream? What recourse do we have if our trailers are out of warranty? Airstray

Airstream Inc. just installed (April 2010) a frame stiffining kit (their name) to mine when I had the rear floor replaced - their cost on the frame kit. They know it's a problem - they have a kit to repair this specific unit. Calll them and see if they can help.

Mike

Inland RV Center, In · 09-27-2010, 10:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Airstray

Andy, I have the same problem as Don. Sagging outriggers and cracked frame. I just purchased my '03 22ft. International CCd and pulled it to Utah and back. My TV is a Ram 3500 Diesel but I didn't have any sway problems pulling it without a WD hitch. I took a reese twin cam hitch with me but didn't need it. What recourse do we, ('03-'07, 22ft.) Airstream owners have? Airstray

You asked.

You have a very good tow vehicle for the Queen Mary, not for an Airstream.

Your truck is not magic and towing with just a ball, is extremely hazardous.

You should check with your insurance company to confirm that you have tons of liability insurance.

The RV industry says used a load equalizing hitch and hopefully with a sway control.

You have neither.

A good attorney repesenting someone that you may have hurt because you lost control, will smile all the way to the bank for him and his client.

You would have absolutely "ZERO" defense.

This is not to frighten you in any way, but telling you "like it is".

Andy

clancy_boy · 09-28-2010, 07:54 AM

Why do I never see a boat trailer with sway control?

I have to ask, I really do not have an answer for this question.

frechettec · 10-13-2010, 08:16 PM

I just discovered cracked welds with sagging outriggers and am trying figure out how to lift the shell back into position beore I beef up the outriggers.

Is this possible, if so, how?

thanks

carl

Mike Leary · 10-13-2010, 09:13 PM

We've seen some overkill truck/boat combos that were swaying so bad, we pulled over, lest we see the carnage up ahead.

dongubrud · 10-14-2010, 07:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by frechettec

I just discovered cracked welds with sagging outriggers and am trying figure out how to lift the shell back into position beore I beef up the outriggers.

Is this possible, if so, how?

thanks

carl

I have bad news for Carl.
If you check your frame, just behind the rear axle, you will find that they are cracked and sagging. that puts added strain on the outriggers. The good news is the factory has new larger outriggers and reinforcement bars for the frame. they should give them to you free. you are in for a lot of work my friend. good luck.

Don

jimelmoreiii · 10-17-2010, 10:06 PM

We're considering a 2004 22'' International CCD that has never been used and has been stored inside since new. It has been towed a couple of times, maybe 200 miles total. It's has the desk in the back.

In light of what I've read here, is this a trailer we should pass on? It seems well priced so spending a bit on preventive frame stiffening doesn't worry me too much, but I don't really know.

Will Airstream provide a fix? Is stiffening the frame something that should be done anyway?

I like the trailer and the layout, but sure don't want to end up with junk a few thousand miles later.

zedex · 10-17-2010, 11:31 PM

A couple observances. Dons 2003 ccd has disk brakes where my 2004 has drum. Airstream must have replaced Dons drums with disk axles.

Also. i notice in some pictures that the frame is welded vertically. This is bad news. You never weld a frame vertically. You always weld a frame along its length and not across its tube section. This vertical weld weakens the frame and if its going to crack it will be at the weld.
I will have a look at my 2004 tomorrow as i just imported it into Canada from the USA. I also have a letter of recall from Airstream and the letter states there are no recalls for this model.I have a trailer inspection this week and we will see how it goes. If i see any frame damage the **** will hit the fan believe me.

Airstray · 10-17-2010, 11:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimelmoreiii

We're considering a 2004 22'' International CCD that has never been used and has been stored inside since new. It has been towed a couple of times, maybe 200 miles total. It's has the desk in the back.

In light of what I've read here, is this a trailer we should pass on? It seems well priced so spending a bit on preventive frame stiffening doesn't worry me too much, but I don't really know.

Will Airstream provide a fix? Is stiffening the frame something that should be done anyway?

I like the trailer and the layout, but sure don't want to end up with junk a few thousand miles later.

You may be lucky if it hasn't been used but that's no assurance it won't happen down the road. We also like the layout and trailer. Unfortunately my frame is "weak" and I have a mess and no way out. I find it odd that my '66 Overlander, which is almost 40 years older, is still strong and it sat in a field for 10 years. Good luck, Jim

dongubrud · 10-18-2010, 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Airstray

You may be lucky if it hasn't been used but that's no assurance it won't happen down the road. We also like the layout and trailer. Unfortunately my frame is "weak" and I have a mess and no way out. I find it odd that my '66 Overlander, which is almost 40 years older, is still strong and it sat in a field for 10 years. Good luck, Jim

Be careful my friend. That is the same model I have and it has been a disaster for me. If the price is right, and you don't tow it, buy it.

dongubrud · 10-18-2010, 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zedex

A couple observances. Dons 2003 ccd has disk brakes where my 2004 has drum. Airstream must have replaced Dons drums with disk axles.

Also. i notice in some pictures that the frame is welded vertically. This is bad news. You never weld a frame vertically. You always weld a frame along its length and not across its tube section. This vertical weld weakens the frame and if its going to crack it will be at the weld.
I will have a look at my 2004 tomorrow as i just imported it into Canada from the USA. I also have a letter of recall from Airstream and the letter states there are no recalls for this model.I have a trailer inspection this week and we will see how it goes. If i see any frame damage the **** will hit the fan believe me.

Get under it and drop the pan. you will have to pop all of the rivets and remove some fiberglass insulation. check the frame just behind the rear axle. the first sign of failure will be on the door side. also you might take a tape and measure the distance from the rear bumper, right and left side, to ground. If one side is differant than the other, you may have a bent or cracked frame. You will sooner or latter.