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Old 01-09-2013, 02:00 PM   #321
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Sad , but true , Had the Avion, Silver Streak and Spartan brands survived till now , they too would have probably gone down the toilet the way Airstream has .
Airstream never had the frames those other trailers had. Airstream had a great reputation that they have been living on for years. Their frames never were strong. I think that AS had a different engineering goal, which was to be as light as possible. That became somewhat irrelevant when the options added to trailers made them fairly heavy. The frames never evolved with the times.
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Old 01-09-2013, 02:57 PM   #322
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Airstream never had the frames those other trailers had. Airstream had a great reputation that they have been living on for years. Their frames never were strong. I think that AS had a different engineering goal, which was to be as light as possible. That became somewhat irrelevant when the options added to trailers made them fairly heavy. The frames never evolved with the times.
When I compare the frame on my 05 to the frame on my 66 , it doesn't
take a rocket scientist to see that the older frame is vastly superior to the
modern one.
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Old 01-09-2013, 03:15 PM   #323
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When I compare the frame on my 05 to the frame on my 66 , it doesn't
take a rocket scientist to see that the older frame is vastly superior to the
modern one.
You would think that the newer ones would have stronger frames because of all the added options that people would put on them, including generators, more LP, more water, etc.
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Old 01-18-2013, 05:19 PM   #324
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I don't know where the post is, but somebody here asked if the wheelbase on a 22 was longer than on other two axle Airstreams, and the answer is, they are 33". So are the three (even one from 1973) larger two axle Airstream trailers I checked. The distance is an optical illusion.
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Old 01-18-2013, 06:28 PM   #325
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Frames are not the problem but the very limited connections between the frame and the shell. As a result, of the poor connection between the frame and shell the frame has to be much stronger than it would be if it were properly attached to the shell. The frames have gotten weaker and the loads imposed on them by added weight and loosening of the already crappy connection to the shell. In truth it is probably easier to make the frame stronger than properly attaching it to the shell. The shell is very strong but since it is only attached to the frame in a few places through thin sheet metal, it can't do much to help the frame. I have two degrees in engineering one of which is Aerospace and I would not design an airplane the way an Airstream is built. It would fall apart. It could be much stronger than it is. The shell is pretty good the rest is not. Does it need to be as strong as and Airplane, no but it could be a lot better than it is. I don't think any real engineering goes into the structural design of these trailers at least not for 50 years or so.

Having said that, it is one of the best out there and far better than any square box trailer. It seems like Airstream does not learn from mistakes and has tried to cheapen these particular trailers to the point of failure. I doubt many square box trailers have as many miles on them as most Airstreams.

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Old 01-18-2013, 07:58 PM   #326
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Avion, Silver Streak and others improved the Airstream design well over 60 years ago. Unfortunately, they are out of business. I think that Airstream won't make it more than another decade or so if they don't do some improvements.
Airstream's frames are the weakest frame on any trailer of it's size that I have seen, and I've built a lot of frames over the years. I know of the monocoque structure, but it still has to have some decent support for the axles. On another thread folks were discussing the differences and none of the other similar style trailers has frame issues or rear end seperation. I wouldn't own a trailer that I had to worry if I accidentally towed it with full black and gray water tanks. That is absurd. The good folks that spend their hard earned money (and a lot of it) to buy an Airstream deserve better.
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Old 01-19-2013, 05:26 AM   #327
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avion, silver streak and others improved the airstream design well over 60 years ago. Unfortunately, they are out of business. I think that airstream won't make it more than another decade or so if they don't do some improvements.
Airstream's frames are the weakest frame on any trailer of it's size that i have seen, and i've built a lot of frames over the years. I know of the monocoque structure, but it still has to have some decent support for the axles. On another thread folks were discussing the differences and none of the other similar style trailers has frame issues or rear end seperation. I wouldn't own a trailer that i had to worry if i accidentally towed it with full black and gray water tanks. That is absurd. The good folks that spend their hard earned money (and a lot of it) to buy an airstream deserve better.
this is an open message to all owners of a 22' as. do not tow with any fluid in the grey or black tank!
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Old 01-19-2013, 07:55 AM   #328
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this is an open message to all owners of a 22' as. do not tow with any fluid in the grey or black tank!
Don, the part that infuriates me is that Airstream knows of their problems and is doing nothing but minor changes knowing full well that those changes won't solve the problem.
There are probably more engineers on this forum than in Airstreams employ, yet they don't listen. The cost to build a decent frame, with a better, insulated floor is probably less than $500 per trailer and these trailers would then last a lifetime or more. If the buying public knew what we know they probably would never buy one. It seems that Airstream is happy if the trailer just makes it out of warranty. Airstream isn't the only trailer manufacturer with frame issues, they are just the only one trying to get the shell to keep their very weak frame together. Their attachment method is a failure waiting to happen.

Don the big question is, "would you buy another one"?
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Old 01-19-2013, 08:06 AM   #329
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So what makes us think that newer 22' single and double axle's AS are OK? What about the 23'?
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Old 01-19-2013, 08:44 AM   #330
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At least I bought a trailer with the tanks over the axels and not at the rear.

Perry
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Old 01-19-2013, 07:43 PM   #331
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So what makes us think that newer 22' single and double axle's AS are OK? What about the 23'?
I shall never waste any more hard earned money on the shoddy trailers
that Airstream builds.
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Old 01-19-2013, 08:10 PM   #332
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So what makes us think that newer 22' single and double axle's AS are OK? What about the 23'?
Hi, the 23' Airstream is a complete different trailer; The 22' is the problem child.
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Old 01-19-2013, 08:21 PM   #333
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Are the current 2012 22' sports a problem?
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Old 01-19-2013, 08:37 PM   #334
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Are the current 2012 22' sports a problem?
Hi, I haven't heard, but it's possibly too new to tell.
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Old 01-19-2013, 09:02 PM   #335
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Are the current 2012 22' sports a problem?
The sport is completely different, more of a lighter weight trailer, even different number of axles.

Doesn't prove anything though.
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Old 01-20-2013, 05:41 AM   #336
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Don, the part that infuriates me is that Airstream knows of their problems and is doing nothing but minor changes knowing full well that those changes won't solve the problem.
There are probably more engineers on this forum than in Airstreams employ, yet they don't listen. The cost to build a decent frame, with a better, insulated floor is probably less than $500 per trailer and these trailers would then last a lifetime or more. If the buying public knew what we know they probably would never buy one. It seems that Airstream is happy if the trailer just makes it out of warranty. Airstream isn't the only trailer manufacturer with frame issues, they are just the only one trying to get the shell to keep their very weak frame together. Their attachment method is a failure waiting to happen.

Don the big question is, "would you buy another one"?
Everything you said is probably true. They don't care as long as their sales are up. Someone once said that their structural engineers are hired right out of High School. With a ''D'' average. And yes I would buy another AS but not the 22'er. I live at the North Texas Airstream Community. It is an all AS community and you must own an AS to live here.
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Old 01-20-2013, 02:01 PM   #337
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I live at the North Texas Airstream Community. It is an all AS community and you must own an AS to live here.

So discrimination is polity correct still in Texas
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Old 03-30-2013, 12:29 PM   #338
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Quote:
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This one shows the R Front axle mount --truss attachment area where the
4x4 3/16 square tube with the 2x2 1/4 inch tubing running through it is suspended below the axles with a u-bolt on the outside .
The axles act as very nice cross members for the truss and with part of the
weight of the trailer being applied to the axle tubing further out from the main frame the axles themselves will have gained strength from having less leverage at the fulcrum point.
after a trip out to fort Davis and Big Bend with the little fellow rolling on
P 235/75R15 cooper tires from Discount and with no load equalizer hitch , only the sway bar , the report is in and it has passed with flying colors !
No sag , No sway , pulled perfectly despite a crosswind from the depths of Hell ! ---- Full fresh water tank and all our STUFF loaded, two spare tires for the Dodge, Airstream and little one wheel generator trailer, and full load of diesel. "over 1500 mile round trip with zero fuel stops"
Next trial run is up through Alberta, British Columbia , The Klondike gold fields of the Yukon, then up through Alaska. and back.
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Old 04-02-2013, 05:50 AM   #339
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Good report Danny. Looks like you found one way to solve the problem. I wish the AS factory had your skills. For what it is worth I think you should use the load equalizers however.
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Old 04-05-2013, 06:47 PM   #340
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Rivet Thanks Don !

Quote:
Originally Posted by DON GUBRUD View Post
Good report Danny. Looks like you found one way to solve the problem. I wish the AS factory had your skills. For what it is worth I think you should use the load equalizers however.
Howdy Don,
have ya got that bumper on yet ? Have given much thought about the equalizer hitch and having pulled the bigger 66 AS with and without with much lighter vehicles "the 71 International travelall HAD to use one at all times. While my old 64 F-100 with load range E tires handled it flawlessly without." Pulling the AS back home from Wisconsin with the equalizer hitch without the bars in place with the Dodge Cummins it towed perfectly even with the Ball being farther from the rear axle than it is now with a normal hitch stabbed in the receiver .
The trailer weighed 4000 lbs on the axles before I beefed up the frame and axles . I added about 400 lbs of steel to the equation 90 % added to the trailer axles. The truck weighs 6100 pounds with most of that weight on the steering axle due to the heavy Cummins Diesel engine and cast iron 5 spd transmission . I added a 12000 pound capacity winch and mounting frame forward of the front bumper which added even more weight to the steering axle.
The distance from the trailer ball to the center of the rear axle is 51.5 inches . the distance between the rear and front axles center line is 141 inches . There are 52 inches from the center of the front axle to the front of the winch and mounting plate and frame.
Add the 6 to 7 hundred pound hitch weight to the rear of the Dodge and with the fulcrum at 51.5 inches with 141 inches to the front axle my feeble mind kinda figures that is putting all of the 6-7 hundred pounds on the drive axle plus taking roughly another 6-7 hundred pounds of weight off the steering axle and putting that weight onto the drive axle. 1400 pounds on the drive axle extra with the trailer hooked up .
The drive axle is rated 6000 pounds and the steering axle is rated 4630.
The little 22 foot Safari tows beautifully behind the Dodge at highway speeds without the weight distributing hitch using the sway bar. With no chance of overloading the trailer tongue or axles with the load equalizer hitch . If I were trying to pull the trailer with an suv or half ton pickup with P rated tires then that would be another story. the Dodge would pull a much bigger trailer with ease , but I like the little trailer back there, and feel safer than safe with it trailing behind us.
REGARDS !
Danny , Rachael and Fred
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