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06-21-2010, 12:46 AM
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#1
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Rivet Master
2005 25' Safari
Salem
, Oregon
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 8,369
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Frame bent, or normal?
Hi, I have been making adjustments on my tow vehicle and trailer. I noticed that when connected, that my trailer was 1" higher in front. A somewhat simple adjustment on the tow vehicle's air suspension should do the trick; just lower the rear end by 1/2" to 3/4", but it wasn't that simple. After making these adjustments, my tow vehicle remained too low in back while unhitched. So I raised it back up. Next I dropped my hitch down one hole on the shank; That should do it. I guess after several years of use and with the normal load in my trailer that it has settled a bit, so dropping the hitch, one bolt hole, should compensate for that. Now I take measurements again and don't like what I see. I will set this up and take pictures, but meanwhile please look at your trailers.
With my trailer level, in my driveway or on the street, I get something like this:
(1.) Bottom of frame by rear bumper = 16"s from the ground.
(2.) Bottom of frame by front of trailer body = 16"s from ground.
(3.) Bottom of frame at coupler = 17"s from the ground.
I don't see any signs of movement where the frame meets the front body panels. I don't see any buckles in the front frame section. Is it possible that when they [Airstream factory] [or frame builder] welded the front "A" frame to the main frame rails, it was slightly upward? I never measured my trailer this way so I can't say things changed or always was like this. This is assuming that the "A" frame and rails are separate pieces welded together.
Opinions and thoughts please. And do any other trailers measure like this?
__________________
Bob 2005 Safari 25-B
"Le Petit Chateau Argent" Small Silver Castle
2000 Navigator / 2014 F-150 Eco-Boost / Equal-i-zer / P-3
YAMAHA 2400 / AIR #12144
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06-21-2010, 07:07 AM
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#2
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4 Rivet Member
1977 25' Tradewind
Waskesiu Lake
, Saskatchewan
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 394
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Are you sure you are on perfectly level ground when doing all of your measurements?
__________________
Every home needs a dog, and every dog needs a home.
1977 25' Tradewind (with two ... three... FOUR dogs)
2011 Ram 1500 Quad cab, 5.7 Hemi, tow pkg.
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06-21-2010, 07:13 AM
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#3
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Rivet Master
1961 24' Tradewind
1969 29' Ambassador
1970 21' Globetrotter
Jamestown
, Tennessee
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,783
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Not sure about the newer ones, however on some the a frame was a different thickness than the frame itself. i don't think you have a problem. Just level the trailer based on the fridge freezer compartment or the floor and adjust hitch head or air suspension accordingly.
As Kevin said, you drive may not be perfectly level either
__________________
Rick Davis 1602 K8DOC
61 tradewind, plus a few others
13 Ram 2500 TD
99 Dodge TD 577K miles
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06-21-2010, 08:18 AM
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#4
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Rivet Master
2005 25' Safari
Trabuco Canyon
, California
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 866
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Quote:
With my trailer level, in my driveway or on the street, I get something like this:
(1.) Bottom of frame by rear bumper = 16"s from the ground.
(2.) Bottom of frame by front of trailer body = 16"s from ground.
(3.) Bottom of frame at coupler = 17"s from the ground.
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Is this when connected to tow vehicle or unhooked? Does that change it?
I'll take a look at mine this week and let you know what I see.
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06-21-2010, 01:30 PM
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#5
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Rivet Master
1967 26' Overlander
Huntsville
, Alabama
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 3,018
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The factory did not do it
Quote:
Originally Posted by ROBERTSUNRUS
... never measured my trailer this way so I can't say things changed or always was like this... do any other trailers measure like this?
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I noticed the same issue with my '67 Airstream. After thoroughly examining all aspects while the belly skin was dropped, I decided the A-frame was bent, and the bend was not manufactured in.
In my opinion, this particular damage was caused by the previous owner's use of 1000-pound spring bars coupled to his 3/4-ton tow vehicle's suspension.
Tom
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06-21-2010, 03:33 PM
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#6
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Rivet Master
2005 25' Safari
Trabuco Canyon
, California
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 866
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(1.) Bottom of frame by rear bumper = 14.2"s from the ground.
(2.) Bottom of frame by front of trailer body = 14.2"s from ground.
(3.) Bottom of frame at coupler = 15.2"s from the ground.
So other than the frame being lower in general (my tires have less than 50 PSI right now), mine exhibits the same thing. My trailer is parked forward on slight downhill slope, and I leveled it parallel to the slope. If the gradient is not consistent there could be errors.
There is no sign of deformation where the A frame enters the sheet metal, or any other signs of deformation which should be evident by a 1 inch sag.. One side of the A frame entry point the caulk is completely intact. The other side has a very small hairline crack in caulk. I can see no indication the A frame has grossly changed position since manufacture.
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06-21-2010, 04:01 PM
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#7
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Rivet Master
1967 26' Overlander
Huntsville
, Alabama
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 3,018
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tpi
(1.) Bottom of frame by rear bumper = 14.2"s from the ground.
(2.) Bottom of frame by front of trailer body = 14.2"s from ground.
(3.) Bottom of frame at coupler = 15.2"s from the ground.
So other than the frame being lower in general (my tires have less than 50 PSI right now), mine exhibits the same thing. My trailer is parked forward on slight downhill slope, and I leveled it parallel to the slope. If the gradient is not consistent there could be errors.
There is no sign of deformation where the A frame enters the sheet metal, or any other signs of deformation which should be evident by a 1 inch sag.. One side of the A frame entry point the caulk is completely intact. The other side has a very small hairline crack in caulk. I can see no indication the A frame has grossly changed position since manufacture.
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(4.) Please share the hitch you are using (with all pertinent details about weight ratings).
(5.) Please share the rating of your tow vehicle's suspension.
I can not come up with a good reason why the factory would have spent the money to tool-up for a pre-bent A-frame. I stick by what I posted earlier.
Tom
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06-21-2010, 04:30 PM
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#8
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_
.
, .
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 8,812
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a/s frames are NOT rigid.
they can be seen to bow/flex/twist before assembly with the NAKED eye.
they can be seen to FLOP when off loaded or stacked.
in fact when stacked/shipped they have blocks/bracing at the preimeter, between frames.
MOST of this movement is hidden/reduced after the floor/shell is attached.
_________
the A frame can be seen to flex/bow with the naked eye or on lighter trailers with some SIMPLE measuring devices.
the A frame movement (even when NOT traveling and with NO w/d bars) can be seen in SHELL bulges OR lp tank movements...
or UNDER the trim as the rivet/screw holes stretch.
this is discussed in detail is several threads like this one...
http://www.airforums.com/forums/f36/...ion-35237.html
cheers
2air'
__________________
all of the true things that i am about to tell you are shameless lies. l.b.j.
we are here on earth to fart around. don't let anybody tell you any different. k.v.
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06-21-2010, 04:48 PM
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#9
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Rivet Master
1967 26' Overlander
Huntsville
, Alabama
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 3,018
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Too cool
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2airishuman
a/s frames are [so forth & so forth]
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I feel honored that 2air did not shoot holes in my last post.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seinfeld
Not that there's anything wrong with that...
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While I may never snatch the pebble from his hand, I feel I'm finally on the road...
Tom
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06-21-2010, 04:58 PM
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#10
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Rivet Master
2005 25' Safari
Trabuco Canyon
, California
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 866
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(4.) Eaz Lift Elite w/ 1000 lb bars
(5.) 1999 F250 extended cab short bed 2WD w/ Bilstein shocks.
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06-21-2010, 05:10 PM
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#11
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Rivet Master
1967 26' Overlander
Huntsville
, Alabama
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 3,018
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I think you bent your Airstream's A-frame with your setup.
Tom
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06-21-2010, 05:17 PM
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#12
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Rivet Master
2005 25' Safari
Trabuco Canyon
, California
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 866
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At this point I disagree. I would like to check or hear reports from brand new trailers. and later model trailers..
My setup is very typical for this trailer. If it bent the frame, there will be numerous others with the same condition, many with far more miles than mine not displaying overt symptoms of failure. The OPs trailer is pulled with a cushy Lincoln Navigator displays the exact same measurements.
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06-21-2010, 08:51 PM
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#13
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Rivet Master
1976 25' Tradewind
.
, Maine to Arizona
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 621
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Go With The Flow Airstreamer
Grasshoppa,
If you have one tough pick up and very strong arms hooking the trailer frame to the trucks heavy duty suspension watch out, especially if you have a short light trailer.
All it takes is a rough ride on crumbling American roads or a mistake, whoops.
I have bent a frame or flexed it very handy.
It is easy to do.
The secret is safe with us. Not that it happened to you.
__________________
"Talk is cheap, Airstreams are expensive," Wally Byam.
25' Tradewind
'18 Promaster 1500 High Roof
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06-21-2010, 09:57 PM
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#14
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Rivet Master
2005 25' Safari
Salem
, Oregon
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 8,369
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Pictures today.
Hi, today I was able to take some pictures and some measurements. If my math is correct, weight on the tongue whether on the ground or on my tow vehicle, my frame is flexed upward about 5/8" at the coupler. Bent, I don't know. Maybe if I supported my frame behind my spare tire, it would be straight, or maybe not. Right now I don't feel it's a problem, but concerned.
My tow vehicle is a 2000 Lincoln Navigator 4X2 with rear air suspension and is rated to tow 8,900 lbs. My Safari is rated at 6,300 lbs. I use an Equal-i-zer hitch with 1,000 lb spring bars.
(1.) & (2.) Rear frame, in rear bumper area. 15 13/16"
(3.) & (4.) Front frame area, as close to body as possible. 15 13/16"
(5.) & (6.) Front frame area, as close to coupler as possible. 16 7/16"
__________________
Bob 2005 Safari 25-B
"Le Petit Chateau Argent" Small Silver Castle
2000 Navigator / 2014 F-150 Eco-Boost / Equal-i-zer / P-3
YAMAHA 2400 / AIR #12144
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06-21-2010, 10:20 PM
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#15
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Rivet Master
2005 25' Safari
Trabuco Canyon
, California
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 866
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I measured mine same location near rear bumper, under the entry door (felt for frame over sheet metal) and at the front coupler.
Until I check a few other trailers, I'm going to keep an eye on it. My gut feeling is the frame is square when produced and develops the bow when the trailer is built onto it and that most/all trailers will exhibit this. 2air's post regarding the floppy frames, my experience with somewhat flexible pickup truck frames points in that direction.
If my concern level grows I'll run over to Southwest Coach and measure a couple if they'll let me. Since I'm not seeing any visual evidence of structural failure, since I'm not a high miler, I'm pretty much inclined to ignore it at this point.
I was under the impression the 25' Safaris had a pretty good frame for the weight. Can someone shed some light on this?
Meanwhile it would be great if others with this or similar models would do a few quick measurements. If you don't want to post it on here drop me a PM.
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06-21-2010, 11:18 PM
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#16
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4 Rivet Member
2008 25' Safari FB SE
Land of fruits and nuts
, California
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 306
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For what it's worth, I went and measured mine. Mine has nearly 11,000 miles on it, 10k of which are with the ProPride 3P with 1000 lb bars. I tow with an '01 F250 ext cab, short bed 4x4. I'm not certain the concrete pad I'm on is perfectly level, and I'm not certain the Airstream is perfectly level (I level off the beltline trim, always works for me). All measurements are within about 1/2" of each other with the lowest at the rear at just under 17.5" and the front close to the coupler is at just over 18" and the spot near the front of the body in between. I think my frame is fine.
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