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Old 03-08-2007, 07:42 PM   #21
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1977 31' Sovereign
Riverhead , New York
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see removal tool
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Old 03-09-2007, 11:02 AM   #22
Rivet Master
 
1973 31' Sovereign
Portland , Oregon
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Images: 22
Bob,

I had forgotten about the type of rivet removal tool you show in your photo. I have one of those sets too and it works great. Thanks for the reminder. It is mostly for the Olympic rivets on the outside of the body, though. I have found, at least on my 1973, that the rivets used on the rub rail, banana wrap and belly pan generally seem to be the more common pop rivet type with a center hole that your drill bit will nicely center on.

That reminds me too that I did take all of my rub rail off and reinstall it with Vulkem underneath but I did not actually remove the banana wrap except in a couple of places where it needed to be replaced. What I did wast to take a piece of rub rail off, clean underneath, glop on the Vulkem and put the rub rail right back on.

Malcolm
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Old 03-11-2007, 05:57 PM   #23
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1978 31' Sovereign
Moncton , New Brunswick
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Tanks for the tool info - I am going ti think about ordering some of those. Also thanks for the advice.

It looks like the aluminum strip on the back lid did in my rear cross member - will try to attach photo (I notice the aluminum strip attached to the lid is tack welded to the top of the frame - is that normal or did the PO do that as it was attached to nothing once the rot got so bad in the back?). The rear cross memeber looks like it needs to be completely reconstructed; it seems to have gotten so weak that there is a slight concave downward in it and the floor. Also the rear floor section looks pretty much shot. Given this, I am thinking of removing the rub rails and rear bannana skins and maybe try sliding in a whole new rear floor member. Otherwise I will have to reconstruct the floor in pieces. Does anyone know if the rear floor section is same shape as the front? I have removed the front floor section a few months back, and have used it as a template for the front fllor section.

Managed to get the curbside banana skin dropped down. All the outriggers are still there although a few are rusted in spots, looks like they should be easily reinforced.

Can't seem to load my pictures - the file size is too large.

John
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Old 03-13-2007, 06:54 AM   #24
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1978 31' Sovereign
Texas Airstream Harbor , Zavalla, in the Deep East Texas Piney Woods on Lake Sam Rayburn
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Rear Floor Question

A Late Response To The Floor and Access Question
Most all of the repairs done by Forum members are credible repairs - and there are as many solutions as there are old trailers.

Pizza Chop certainly did a good job on his.

The rear is not the same as the front. The thread below is where I documented my repairs.

Also you will find an alternative to jacking on the frames.

I was able to remove and roll back the belly pan without removing the banana wraps.

http://www.airforums.com/forum...ad.php?t=14737

The good news is that the rear is repairable without separating the frame/floor/U-channel/skin assembly.

I placed some light angle under the rear floor simply because AS built them much less robust than they should have - IMHO.

I intend to keep mine for quite a while, but may not necessarily have it on the road much.

Have LOTS of hours and bucks in it - but I am now going back together with the interior. I need to decide very quickly about which configuration I am going with in the rear bedroom.

As far as your resizing photo problem - about any "more than basic" photo shop program will allow you to resize the photos to a 640 X 480 size, then save them as a different name from the original photo.
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Old 03-13-2007, 02:12 PM   #25
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1973 31' Sovereign
Portland , Oregon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toga
Tanks for the tool info - I am going ti think about ordering some of those. Also thanks for the advice.

It looks like the aluminum strip on the back lid did in my rear cross member - will try to attach photo (I notice the aluminum strip attached to the lid is tack welded to the top of the frame - is that normal or did the PO do that as it was attached to nothing once the rot got so bad in the back?). The rear cross memeber looks like it needs to be completely reconstructed; it seems to have gotten so weak that there is a slight concave downward in it and the floor. Also the rear floor section looks pretty much shot. Given this, I am thinking of removing the rub rails and rear bannana skins and maybe try sliding in a whole new rear floor member. Otherwise I will have to reconstruct the floor in pieces. Does anyone know if the rear floor section is same shape as the front? I have removed the front floor section a few months back, and have used it as a template for the front fllor section.

Managed to get the curbside banana skin dropped down. All the outriggers are still there although a few are rusted in spots, looks like they should be easily reinforced.

Can't seem to load my pictures - the file size is too large.

John
My guess is if your unit is like mine that leakage in general caused the aluminum strip, the rear cross-member and the floor to have problems. My aluminum strip was not tack welded in so you may be right that someone did that later.

I built a new and stronger rear cross member out of angle iron about 2" x 2" x 1/8" thick. The attached photo shows what it looks like.

The rear section curve is definitely not the same as the front. I was able to make a template using thick poster board before I took out the old flooring. The template I made followed the outline of the inner edge of the body. Just add 1-1/2" to that outline and you will be fine. In my case I was replacing all of the subflooring. If the piece in front of the rear piece is out you can rotate the new end piece into place entirely from inside. It would also be OK to cut the piece down the middle into two pieces and fasten them backtogether at the joist with a spline underneath. With glue and screws this will be pretty much as strong as if it were one piece.

There are new larger size photo limits but the max in each dimension needs to be no more than 1600 pixels. As pointed out most software for doing even mimor edits to photos will allow you to resize the photo.

Malcolm
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Old 03-15-2007, 06:30 PM   #26
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1978 31' Sovereign
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Dennis and Malcolm,

Thanks for your advice. The info you gave will do the trick.

Will try to attach photos herein showing the state of rear floor and cross member. I like the angle iron cross member repair. I assume you have a couple of holes in the top one to bolt the shell flange and new floor section to. Also, it looks like a some type of flashing may be useful to avoid this problem in the future - from folding down the curbside rear bannana skin I can see my rear floor is gone there as well apparently due to water entering under the beltline and wicking into the plywood. Any other suggestion in replacing plywood to minimize future rot e.g. fiberglass coat/ laminate, or floor enamel paint?

Should hopefully be some photos attached although I don't see them in the preview.

Thanks,

John
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Old 03-15-2007, 06:49 PM   #27
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ooooooohhh - looks nasty

Toga:

Have you thoroughly inspected the rest of the frame?

The reason I ask is that the rear cross member is so far gone if there are any other cross members or arm extensions as bad it might be good to do everything at one time (dare I say Frame Off/New Frame?).

My condolences to your having to fight the snow on a gravel drive - I know how miserable that can be.

Post more pics the ones you have put up are great - I have found it to be really beneficial to keep a running photo journal of the work - even down here in the south with a lot of available work time I have had the Sovereign "on the blocks" for way too long.
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Old 03-18-2007, 06:39 PM   #28
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1978 31' Sovereign
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87MH,

I have seen bits of the frame and I know there are a few issues. I am hoping at all costs to avoid a shell off and new frame. I remember on the forums though someone saying he got a frame done up for $1500.00 - seems awfully reasonable. From what I have seen I know that at least a few of the crossmembers between the frames seem to be in good condition, and I am hoping the rest are reasonable. I plan to expose the whole thing including dropping the waste, grey and water tanks.

Removed the gas line and stabilizer jacks from the front section of belly pan. Should hopefully drop that soon and get a view as to condition. I am still thinking of removing the bannana wraps - I think I will ultimately need the access to repair the rotted outriggers. (About the belly wrap, aside from the curved corner peices, on the straight sections can they be reasonably made up from some aluminum house flashing? A couple of the sections running along the sides are in rough shape - some corrosion and tears.)

Right now if things are reasonable on the frame I hope to get a welder in to repair the outriggers similar to what Pizz Chop did to reinforce, and maybe do the angle iron on the back cross member as you have done - that looks quite sturdy.

Regarding the gas line, what is the general opinion. Should it be replaced if one has taken it off. Is it expensive? There are a number of little shutoff valves along the line.

Within the next few weeks hope to have gotten a better view of the frame and will post pictures; I am hoping it can be patched up.

Thanks for the info.

John
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Old 04-02-2007, 07:03 PM   #29
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1978 31' Sovereign
Moncton , New Brunswick
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Some Bad Outriggers

Removed most of the curbside beltline and banana skins this week end. Outriggers forward of wheel are in bad shape. This was caused by the bannana skins being overlapped on top of the side skin under the beltline trim so when it rained runoff leaked into the belly and really did a job on the outriggers. (One of the pictures should show the skin gap/ fit up near the back awning mount).The main frame rails are rusted in places but look reasonably solid from what I have seen so far.

One result of the bad outriggers front of the wheels is that the shell seems to have sagged as you can sort of make out looking at the outrigger at the wheelwell. This has resulted in the edge of the trailer being on the order of an inch maybe sagging relative to the main frame rail. I am hoping I can jack up the perimeter to take this sag out and have a welder reinforce the outriggers. Anyone seen a similar problem due to bad outriggers and fixed it this way?

The outriggers toward the back (from the rear wheel on back) are rusted but all still there so should be able to reinforce. The rear floor is severely rotted and can be seen drooping in one picture.
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Old 04-02-2007, 07:10 PM   #30
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1978 31' Sovereign
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Rear Curbside Outriggers

My last post did not show the rear curbside outriggers. This is a view looking at then from the rear of the trailer. These are in much better shape than the outriggers forward of the wheels. Note the floor rot in the foreground of the rear floor section.
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Old 04-02-2007, 07:19 PM   #31
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That damage is not from rain water entering the bannana skin!

How was the pink insulation in those areas?

I'll take a guess it was all balled up and wet.
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Old 04-02-2007, 08:22 PM   #32
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You should be able to carefully jack up the body in places where it has sagged so that the outriggers can be restored underneath it. I would suggest that you avoid lifting it higher than necessary though because of extra stress that it might put on the inner skins and etc. I would think if you jacked it up to just to where it was supposed to be that you could redo the outrigger underneath it.

Malcolm
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Old 04-02-2007, 08:36 PM   #33
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This is my first thread and I had some problems getting onto new forums.
Need some input about repainting a 1978 argosy. After very light cleaning and covering any bare aluminum with zinc chromate. What primer would be best, also which would be the best Acrylic Enamel or Acrylic Lacquer and then with a clear coat. Or is there a better way? can some one start a paint thread.
Thanks
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Old 04-03-2007, 07:05 PM   #34
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Moncton , New Brunswick
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Bob,

Fromwhat I can recall the insulation did not seem allthat bad in the outrigger section. It seemed in quite good shape inside the main frame rails for sure. That is why I suspect leakage through the seam; there was absolutely no sealant. Definitely when I put it back together I will put some sealer (vulcum I presume).

Malcolm,

Thanks for the comments on jacking up the sagged body. The top angle iron type part of the outriggers seem to be all there so I will try to jack up carefully as you have suggested and get a welder to repair, as well as reinforce the frame where required. By the way, when looking for a welder what type of welding should I ask for MIG? TIG? or other?

Got quite a job ahead it looks.

Biil,

On the painting use the search function. I recall seeing a few good threads discussing the relative merits; apparently if you get a good paint job it is low maintenance, looks good and lasts a long time. I may go that route myself if I get that far.

John.
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Old 04-03-2007, 07:15 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toga
Bob,

Fromwhat I can recall the insulation did not seem allthat bad in the outrigger section. It seemed in quite good shape inside the main frame rails for sure. That is why I suspect leakage through the seam; there was absolutely no sealant. Definitely when I put it back together I will put some sealer (vulcum I presume).

If the insulation was good how did the metal rust a way?

I think you should not seal the skins, let the water run thru, if the metal is painted with por-15 it can get wet and will not rust.
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Old 04-03-2007, 08:14 PM   #36
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John,

Did you also find floor rot in the same general areas where the outriggers were badly rusted? I think that it is a good idea to seal the joint along the bottom edge of the body where it attaches to the banana wrap under the trim. This is not so much because of the frame but because the edge of the plywood subfloor can get wet from this joint. I agree that it is a good idea to allow water in the belly pan to get out some how but I don't think we need to encourage water getting in there to begin with more than necessary - especially relative to the subfloor. I added a good bead of Vulkem under the rub rail to seal things up before putting the rub rail back on.

Malcolm
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Old 04-04-2007, 07:23 PM   #37
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Bob,

I am not sure how the metal rusted away. I will look more closely when I do the other side. I hope to do the POR-15 or possibly fluid film (I have found this very effective on car bodies/ frames but am not sure on longevity), or both, when the day comes that the frame is fixed.

Malcolm,

I am certainly favouring the seal on the overlap of the trailer side skin and bannana skin. I can't see where the current configuration serves any useful purpose; it seems a detriment as it seems a certain entry point for water intrusion. From what I have seen of home building (very little I might add) it seems particualr attention is paid to flashing with proper over lap at roof edges, etc. to avoid water entry. In the case of the airstream I would have thought the bannana skin would be under the side skin.

On this matter and water/ condensation pooling in the belly pan in general, what about a semi permeable belly skin fabric perhaps with a skrim to give it strength and tear resistance, any thoughts - it would seem like it would help solve/ mitigate the problem.
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Old 04-04-2007, 07:35 PM   #38
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Oh wow....serious project..

Get out the beer...and welder..!!
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Old 04-04-2007, 07:48 PM   #39
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I believe sealing it will trap dirt, the dirt will hold moisture, then rust.

Also sealing the top isn't going to keep water out when you go down the road in the rain at 60mph. The water wil go up into it, with pressure.

Leave it all open to drain don't seal the bottom of the bannana skin to the belly pan either......hey that's my take on it!

But do seal the edge of the plywood floor with epoxy resin.

Re insulate with foil bubble and your good for another 30 years.
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Old 05-04-2007, 07:21 PM   #40
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1978 31' Sovereign
Moncton , New Brunswick
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Water and Wastewater Tank Removal

Most of belly pan is off. Any trick to removing water and wastewater tanks from below? I have the service manual and it looks easy - is this misleading? It says to disconnect the hoses before dropping the water tank and pan; do you disconnect hoses from the inside because it doesn't look like you can get at them from below with the pan on. Can you take the pan off and will the water tank still be supported so that you can disconnect the hoses and sensor connections? Same question for black and grey water tanks.
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