Floor rot repair with epoxy

[A W Warn]

I started adding on to a prior post if mine, about belly wrap, ( here> http://www.airforums.com/forums/f476...ml#post1342188) but decided to start a new thread and document the repair so others might gain knowledge from my problem.

I found moisture beneath my bed when I removed a portion of the bed during a water heater replacement. Today I removed more of the bed so I could remove the plastic covering, carpet, and carpet pad to dry out the wood and discover how much damage there is. I found the foam carpet pad was absorbing the water to the point of saturation and then wicking back onto the wood. When I lifted and removed the pad water literally ran out of it.

This first photo shows the worse part. There is a soft spot directly in front of the light and access door about the size of a pie plate. The rest of the dark colored floor is solid, just wet and stained. The wetness extends from the edge of the shower to the rear curb side then around the corner about 3'. I think I have water from coming from above as well as water coming in from the lid on the bumper storage at the belt line.

To the right side of the first photo is the edge of the bed frame then the wall that separates the bed from the shower. The carpet extends beneath that wall about 3-4" then there is bare wood beneath the shower. I could not get my eye into a position to see beneath the shower, but I was able to get a camera into the space and take two pictures. Both photos show there is very little wetness beneath the shower. I dodged a bullet here, since it would be very difficult to remove the shower.




I have started running a fan to circulate the air and a dehumidifier to get it dried out. I'll get the leaks under control then repair the floor.

[Inland RV Center, In]

Originally Posted by A W Warn

I started adding on to a prior post if mine, about belly wrap, ( here> http://www.airforums.com/forums/f476...ml#post1342188) but decided to start a new thread and document the repair so others might gain knowledge from my problem.

I found moisture beneath my bed when I removed a portion of the bed during a water heater replacement. Today I removed more of the bed so I could remove the plastic covering, carpet, and carpet pad to dry out the wood and discover how much damage there is. I found the foam carpet pad was absorbing the water to the point of saturation and then wicking back onto the wood. When I lifted and removed the pad water literally ran out of it.

This first photo shows the worse part. There is a soft spot directly in front of the light and access door about the size of a pie plate. The rest of the dark colored floor is solid, just wet and stained. The wetness extends from the edge of the shower to the rear curb side then around the corner about 3'. I think I have water from coming from above as well as water coming in from the lid on the bumper storage at the belt line.
Attachment 193537
To the right side of the first photo is the edge of the bed frame then the wall that separates the bed from the shower. The carpet extends beneath that wall about 3-4" then there is bare wood beneath the shower. I could not get my eye into a position to see beneath the shower, but I was able to get a camera into the space and take two pictures. Both photos show there is very little wetness beneath the shower. I dodged a bullet here, since it would be very difficult to remove the shower.

Attachment 193538

Attachment 193539
I have started running a fan to circulate the air and a dehumidifier to get it dried out. I'll get the leaks under control then repair the floor.

The decks of military ships such as battle ships and aircraft carriers are repaired with epoxy, until the wooden floor must be replaced.

I have a section of the Missouri that was repaired that way.

And

[ROBERT CROSS]

Originally Posted by A W Warn

I started adding on to a prior post if mine, about belly wrap, ( here> http://www.airforums.com/forums/f476...ml#post1342188) but decided to start a new thread and document the repair so others might gain knowledge from my problem.

I found moisture beneath my bed when I removed a portion of the bed during a water heater replacement. Today I removed more of the bed so I could remove the plastic covering, carpet, and carpet pad to dry out the wood and discover how much damage there is. I found the foam carpet pad was absorbing the water to the point of saturation and then wicking back onto the wood. When I lifted and removed the pad water literally ran out of it.

This first photo shows the worse part. There is a soft spot directly in front of the light and access door about the size of a pie plate. The rest of the dark colored floor is solid, just wet and stained. The wetness extends from the edge of the shower to the rear curb side then around the corner about 3'. I think I have water from coming from above as well as water coming in from the lid on the bumper storage at the belt line.
Attachment 193537
To the right side of the first photo is the edge of the bed frame then the wall that separates the bed from the shower. The carpet extends beneath that wall about 3-4" then there is bare wood beneath the shower. I could not get my eye into a position to see beneath the shower, but I was able to get a camera into the space and take two pictures. Both photos show there is very little wetness beneath the shower. I dodged a bullet here, since it would be very difficult to remove the shower.

Attachment 193538

Attachment 193539
I have started running a fan to circulate the air and a dehumidifier to get it dried out. I'll get the leaks under control then repair the floor.

AW,

I used a heat lamp to speed the process...


A handy addition for the AS tool kit....


Bob

[A W Warn]

Thanks for that advice. I have an infrared heat lamp I will use.

We have had 3-4" of rain over the weekend and showers early today, so the drying out is slow. Inside the trailer the humidity is down to 30% and the temperature is 86F with a dehumidifier and 2 fans running. The dehumidifier has been removing a steady drip for two days. Where I live, on a normal summer day the air has a relative humidity of 80 to 100%, so getting the wood dry will take a while.

I've have to get the leaks fixed and use a preservative treat the wood to kill any mold spores before starting to get the moisture in the wood subfloor down to 20% or less. The epoxy specifications say the wood needs to be at least that dry before using the epoxy. One wood treatment I have been reading about is boron.

Has anyone used boron to surface treat plywood? I am wandering if it might create a corrosion problem? (boric acid)

[TouringDan]

Alan

Sorry about your leak. I will watch this thread closely as I have a similar problem in my Excella 500, 1984.

Dan

[cwf]

Fixed our leak which was combo of window gaskets, aluminum seams and wind.

Final leak was top seam above curbside front curved window where it transitions to roof.

Used Git-Rot after proper seal then drying. All nice and tight.

[A W Warn]

I have several moisture issues to address:

1. Last winter while I was in Florida I was sleeping in bed when water dripped onto my face. I got up and looked outside expecting rain had leaked in, but the moon and stars were out. Condensation had collected around the windows to the point of dripping. The outside temperature got down into the low 40's while there was high relative humidity inside the trailer. Where I store my trailer right beside my house, I almost always have high humidity. I have ordered a dehumidifier that will be dedicated to the trailer and plugged in any time I have shore power. I plan to put it under the dinette table and install a drain through the floor at that point.
2. My trailer has had some of the curved panels at the rear curb corner replaced by a prior owner. I was able to see this prior to purchasing the trailer 3 years ago, since the seams are not perfect and some of the Olympic rivets show their center holes. I re-caulked all those seams after I purchased. I suspect these seams and rivets are leaking where the rear panels merge with the roof. I will scrape these joints and re-seal the joints and rivets.
3. A couple weeks ago I found some loose screws where the awning arms are attached. This is right where the water dumps off the roof at the rear. I will remove the screws, clean the area, the re-seal.
4. I suspect the fan curb above the bed may be letting water get in between the skins. A prior owner put about a 1/2" thick bed of caulk around it that is about 3 to 4" wide. I had to repair at the front fan that was the same and leaking when I got the trailer. I will remove all this mess around the rear fan and reseal.
5. This trailer is one that has the slinky storage between the frame at the rear. The lid for the storage box extends through the exterior skin into the interior of the wall. My trailer is definitely leaking water at this point at the curb rear corner. I will remove the rub rail at this point so that I can seal this intersection.

It is still to wet to work on it today. At least the sun is peaking out a little this morning.

[A W Warn]

This morning the breaker started tripping on the circuit where I have the trailer plugged in. I do not have enough electric power to run everything, using the 15 amp plug at the garage door. Looks like it's time to add a 30 amp RV circuit! If I do this I can run the AC and the dehumidifier at the same time, both removing moisture.

DW is not going to be happy when I tell her that this will cost a few hundred $ in addition to the trailer repair!

[A W Warn]

I ran a second drop chord on a separate circuit to run the dehumidifier, so now I can run the air conditioner along with the dehumidifier. The breakers are holding now. The wood tests below 20% moisture content, using a digital moisture tester.

After several days of rain last week and visitors who stayed for a long weekend until yesterday, I finally have had time today to start repairing the leaks. The major leak was at the junction of the walls and floor where the rear bumper storage. There was absolutely no caulking at this joint. Thinking I should keep this thread strictly about the repair of the rotted wood, I started a different thread to show how I repaired this leak. http://www.airforums.com/forums/f456...ml#post1347375

I will seal the other leaks tomorrow, weather permitting, then proceed with the wood rot repair.

[A W Warn]

During the last several days I removed the bed frame and the rest of the carpet.
I found 4 separate leaks:
1. The lid where the lid on the slinky storage extends through the wall was the main leak.
2. The beltline joins just below the rear window. There was a leak right where there was a rivet missing and an open screw hole which were barely hidden by the vinyl insert.
3. The seam was leaking where the awning arm attaches closest to the rear, right where the gutter ends. There was a pin size hole. Also the caulking looked good, but the bond was broken.
4. The screws that hold the awning arm bracket were loose, and the caulking had failed.

The lower rear corner of the water heater opening for the gas line had leaked in the past. Since I had just replaced the water heater, that was no longer leaking.

I started to prep the wood by drilling holes into the plywood floor. These will be used to inject the epoxy.




After drilling the holes I decided to remove the loose wood. The instructions from the epoxy manufacturer said this wood could be left in place, but I did not feel good leaving it.

[ventport]

Just my 2 cents worth, you are wasting your time and money. Tear out the rotted wood and do the repair right. Not that you asked for my 2 cents worth.

[A W Warn]

Where the soft loose wood was removed I had planned on filling it with the epoxy manufacturer's filler. Once I opened the filler material and saw what it was, I decided to I would use three layers of fiberglass matt sandwiched between layers of the epoxy filler. This material will be held in place until it cures by the metal slinky storage lid.
I pre-cut the fiberglass mat to fit.
Later, I laid it so that there are 3 plies of epoxy saturated glass matt and 3 plies of filler.

[A W Warn]

Originally Posted by ventport

Just my 2 cents worth, you are wasting your time and money. Tear out the rotted wood and do the repair right. Not that you asked for my 2 cents worth.

Just wondering, have you personally had a bad experience using epoxy in this type of repair?
Everything I have read has reported excellent results when installed correctly.

[A W Warn]

This is the material I used. The kit I purchased consisted of one pint each of the penetrating epoxy, one pint each of the 2 part filler, one pint of cleaner/solvent, gloves, a putty knife, and a wood paddle.





I did not use the cleaner/solvent after I read the MSDS sheet, since it required breathing equipment I do not own. The other materials only required ventilation. There was hardly any odor. I use the FantasticVent fans 1 blowing in on low and one out on high. I also left the AC running while I worked. It stayed between 75 and 78 degrees while I worked.

[A W Warn]

Before starting I checked the wood's moisture content to make sure it was less than 17%, as stated in the instructions. It measured from 11% to 15%, checked at several locations.
The instructions for the penetrating epoxy says to use equal measured parts of A and B, so I poured about an ounce in each cup. Then I poured both into the a small squeeze bottle, which was not part of the kit, and shook until mixed. The holes near the edges soaked up a lot of material, one or two tablespoons per hole. The holes an inch or two away took less, about a teaspoon each. I injected more than 26 ounces into the holes over a two hour period.






After filling the holes with as much penetrating epoxy as they would absorb I plugged the drilled holes with filler. Then I filled the opening where the wood was removed with the alternating layers of fiberglass/epoxy, and filler. Then I wet the patch with epoxy and smoothed it with a plastic putty knife. I will sand it tomorrow.
About 3 hours after this photo the patch is solid.

I'm not sure if or how I will finish this area. I may leave it as is or paint it a light color so I can see better inside the storage areas. I will have to use some shims or blocking to support the bed since the carpet has been removed.

I will continue to monitor the patch for as long as I own the trailer. If anyone has questions now or later I will be glad to share information.

[TouringDan]

AW

The wood damage does not look that bad. I would be inclined to try the epoxy repair. Especially since the damage is right next to the c channel. Replacing plywood there is not so easy. I am not sure I want to get into the belly pan. Might be opening up a new can of worms. You can always do this later if needed.

Dan

[A W Warn]

Originally Posted by TouringDan

AW

The wood damage does not look that bad. I would be inclined to try the epoxy repair. Especially since the damage is right next to the c channel. Replacing plywood there is not so easy. I am not sure I want to get into the belly pan. Might be opening up a new can of worms. You can always do this later if needed.

Dan

The damage was not as bad as I thought it would be when I first discovered it. I am really happy that I chose to go with the penetrating epoxy. I could have left most of the plywood and it would have been ok for several years. I am not positive the fiberglass patch will hold up in the long run, though it sure was a lot less work and expense than removing more.
We are going to tow several hundred miles next week. If the patch is going to crack, it should show up soon. If it does not hold up, I will remove the bed and replace the plywood back to the first stringer.
We'll see how it goes!

[LFC]

It will probably out last the rest of the floor.

[ventport]

Originally Posted by A W Warn

Just wondering, have you personally had a bad experience using epoxy in this type of repair?
Everything I have read has reported excellent results when installed correctly.

It has been my experience that when you have wood rot in the front or back you need to remove the lower interior walls to get at the C channel. You then find rusted through bolts that bolt the floor and C channel to the frame. I doubt that the epoxy will wick it's way, all the way, under the C channel and you will still not have a good connection of shell to frame. My personal opinion is that it is best to open up the floor, deal with the rusted frame, and replace the bolts that hold everything together. Without taking it apart you have no idea if the hold down plate is almost rusted through, and how rusted the frame is. Good luck, I hope your repair works for you. Brian

[mtbguy]

I have worked with lots of epoxies and fiberglass in restoring old boats. It looks like you did the correct procedure, cleaning it and letting it get dry then repairing. West System epoxy even illustrates the hole pattern type repair you did in their catalog. Obviously ripping the whole floor out might have been better but a lot more work. On my trailer the wood damage was fairly recent and I inspected the C channel/etc. when I replaced a water tank and the metal underneath was fine.

The damaged layer looked like it was only one layer you removed and the floor is pretty thick, I think you will be fine as long as you have correctly identified and corrected the leaks that caused the damage to begin with.

My shower pan area had similar damage and I did a very similar repair to yours using epoxy and a few layers of kevlar/fiberglass to reinforce it. It wasn't that large an area and not worth ripping it all up/out.

Since I had the epoxy with me and all carpet removed, I coated my entire floor with epoxy resin!