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NorCal Bambi · 03-01-2006, 08:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by uwe

Dang, Don - did you actually almost loose the door? Any collateral damage?

Before we left on our trip to the South Beach Rally I had removed the bottom hinge. The door was dragging on the frame of the door when it was closed. So I reshaped the hinge to solve the problem. In fact the door shut beautifully. When I reinstalled the bottom hinge all new rivets were used. Because of this the door was held on by the bottom hinge until I was able to stop. The bottom hinge was twisted about 90 degrees. I didn't have much choice so I took the door and slowly twisted it back into position. I had a 16" crescent wrench with me. Using the wrench I was able to reshape the twisted hinge. I still don't believe that that worked, but it did. The dead bolt was still extended and in place. Here is what happened. The rivets to the top hinge that connected the hinge to the trailer wall gave way. This allowed the the top back of the door to slowly slip out of place. My guess is that the slip stream was sucking on the outside surface of the door. When a small bump in the road was hit, the back top of the door popped out and back enough to allow the dead bolt to be slid back away from it's striker. Once this happened the front of the door was caught by the wind and flung open. The wind then took the door flipped it open and twisted it down into the position in the photo shop recreation. The amazing thing is that no glass was broken and there is very little damage to the door its self. The most damage happened to the side of the trailer. Most of that damage is already repaired. We didn't realize at the time but we had lost the window screen in the process. The good luck in the story is that on Sunday on the way back we were able to find and retrieve the screen. So there can be good luck in bad luck! The door is sprung out about a 1/2" on the bottom right corner. I thought I'd include a picture of the repairs in a Wall Mart parking lot. I'm sure all of you have been in some familiar saturation at sometime.
Don

**Stefrobrts** · 03-01-2006, 11:29 AM

I HOPE we're never in a situation like that! Good luck you found your screen. This turned into quite a little adventure for you, being only a weekend trip!

NorCal Bambi · 03-03-2006, 12:28 PM

I'm in the process of removing the inner skin for the purpose of leak detection, electrical update, and insulation. I will be down loading several pictures with explanations on where I have found leaks in the outer skin. If something on the forum already exists like this I didn't find it. I thought this information may be helpful to others trying to stop or find leaks in their projects.
This picture shows signs of leaks on the inner skin after it was removed. Inspection of the inner skins is a good way to detect leaks.

NorCal Bambi · 03-03-2006, 12:32 PM

This leak in evident by the whitish flow streaks down the aluminum. The leak my have started on the outside anywhere along the outside of this seam and chose to enter the inside at this point.

NorCal Bambi · 03-03-2006, 12:36 PM

This leak is at the Bambi Metal lettering that is placed on the outside of the trailer. This one I was able to witness on our last trip. Water hits the front of the trailer runs along the curve of the front of the trailer and directly to the metal lettering. This was a substantial leak.

NorCal Bambi · 03-03-2006, 12:46 PM

There are C channel strips that are places around the vent window at the top of the trailer. These are mainly supports for the inner skin and window frame parts. They are riveted to the outer skin form the top outside. In my trailer several of the rivets were loose as seen from the top of the trailer. In my observation this was a weak part of the construction process. I would therefore suggest that you check this area. They could be sealed from the outside with a glop of Vulcaum around the rivet heads. I will be replacing all of there rivets on the top of the trailer. Also my guess is that during manufacture only one person was working on this process. I say this because it appears that there was no support on the inside as holes were drilled and the rivets were placed. The C channel was ofter bent in a way that would happen when the drill punched through the outer skin. The number 4 picture is wrong.

NorCal Bambi · 03-03-2006, 12:56 PM

leaks can be seen at the door reinforcement metal plates. I believe some of the leaks were coming through the rivets. Corrosion comment, The hinges are make of stainless steel, the backing plate is of sheet steel, the trailer skin is aluminum. and the rivets that attach all together are aluminum. Three or four different metals joined together where water is a potential leak problem. Sounds like a galvanic night mare to me. No wonder my door decided to go south. I am planning to make some changes here. Any suggestions?

NorCal Bambi · 03-03-2006, 12:59 PM

Some leaks were also found at clearance light areas.

NorCal Bambi · 03-06-2006, 09:29 PM

Well, here is an update on my insulation and condensation dilemma. I threw out my earlier ideas and have decided on a "sandwich insulation" plan. The sandwich is made up of an inner and outer layer of Reflectix insulation with a inner layer of Dura-Cool cooler Pad. I have used the cooler pad for several reasons. It is made of a material that will not decay or cause odors. It is coated with a moisture absorbing foam coating. If you are interested their web site is www.dialmfg.com. My hope is that the outer layer will help to control the outside temperature. The inner layer will Help to isolate the inside temps. and the Dura-Cool which is mostly a dead air space Will help to create a buffer zone between the other two areas. Also it is my hope that the Dura-Cool will work as an area to control condensation by giving the moisture in the air a place to condense to and then allow it to evaporate back into the air space when conditions are right. I am considering on installing some instrumentation inside the wall to monitor the conditions. I hope you all see this as a fun adventure and not just crazy. I'll include some pictures so you can see what it looks like.

A-Merry-Can · 03-07-2006, 07:59 AM

hey don,

beautiful work so far. i noticed the same leaks in my end caps that you saw. when i pulled one back, i was suprised to find no sort of sealer. i guess they were relying on the water flowing downhill, rather than wicking in the seams... which, it turns out that's exactly what was happening in mine. the water would wick in, run down to the window, then pool up on the inner top window ledge, and run in the trailer. i've since sealed the inside edges of the caps with alcoa, and once the outter cap is cleaned up, will be sealing it as well. i'm planning on going over the top with mine, by pulling out the front window, resealing and replacing the drip caps... it better not leak after all this! ha!

interesting insulation method. i'll have to consider that as well. what do you think the entire trailer is going to cost you in insulation before you're done?

jp

Jim & Susan · 03-07-2006, 05:57 PM

Don, like you and JP, I found many of the same leaks. What is the "black stuff" sprayed all over, is that some kind of sealant used in that era trailer? What are you using to seal the leaks? I'm using Vulkem for most, but did use one tube of sikaflex. In fact, that was what I was doing after work today, scraping away old Vukem and cleaning things up for the new sealant. THAT, is a pain in butt!

About the Dura-cool, are you gonna use over the entire inside walls, or are you using strips in certain places? It's looking real good, If you don't mind saying, is the combination of the two layers of insulation very expensive?

Jim

ankornuta · 03-07-2006, 07:56 PM

The insulation is looking good! I was thinking of going a similar route with my trailer (if I can ever make some decisions and stick with them regarding holding tanks! ) once I start putting it all back together. I'll have to stay tuned and see how it all works out.

NorCal Bambi · 03-08-2006, 07:36 AM

Jim & Susan, the black stuff is a sprayed on type of tar that was used to seal the trailer. I have had to use a heat gun and a dull chisel to get the stuff off. It appears that they must have had some problems controlling the stuff. In the back of the trailer it was hard and well stuck to the trailer. In the front it was also hard but areas just broke off like breaking glass. It also looks like it was hard to control. I have been sealing joints with valcum and Alcoa. I know its overkill. I'm in the process of figuring out the cost of the insulation process. As soon as I come up with an estimate, I'll make a post with details. It looks like it is going to be expensive. I figure it's a major item in Airstreams. Another hope of mine is that if I do get new leaks in the future they will will run down the outside reflectix to the bottom channel and stay out of the inside of the trailer. Time will only answer that wish! Dura-cool will be used on all surfaces of the shell.
JP, I'm resealing inside and outside the windows. I don't plan on removing them. I hope this is not a mistake. One thing I've noticed is by the front top of the window there are 3 to 4 layers of aluminum that come together. This can't be very good for leak prevention. Let me know what you find once you have removed the windows and inspected the area.
ankornuta, I'm also hoping for some sound reduction with this method, Down the road I'll post if it works.
Don

ankornuta · 03-08-2006, 07:49 PM

I imagine the sound reduction will be pretty substantial.

You know... it's interesting to hear about the leaks you're discovering. I think all of the water damage to my trailer was done via a broken window in the back which was apparently left unrepaired for some time (in the Pacific Northwest), a defrosting refrigerator that wasn't drained properly, and a place where someone ran off a curb and damaged the belly pan (water got up in it). Amazingly, I can't find any leaks around windows, seals, etc... the ironic thing is, here in Phoenix it hasn't rained for 140 days!

NorCal Bambi · 03-08-2006, 09:14 PM

I bought more supplies today, so I can estimate the cost of the insulation method "sandwich insulation" Total cost when I've finished will be around $450.00. That's a lot.
ankornuta, In Yreka we are somewhere around twice our average rainfall for this year. It's suppose to snow down to 1000' tonight.
If water got up inside, how does the frame look?
Don

uwe · 03-09-2006, 07:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NorCal Bambi

Jim & Susan, the black stuff is a sprayed on type of tar that was used to seal the trailer. I have had to use a heat gun and a dull chisel to get the stuff off. It appears that they must have had some problems controlling the stuff. In the back of the trailer it was hard and well stuck to the trailer. In the front it was also hard but areas just broke off like breaking glass. It also looks like it was hard to control. I have been sealing joints with valcum and Alcoa. I know its overkill.

JP, I'm resealing inside and outside the windows. I don't plan on removing them. I hope this is not a mistake. One thing I've noticed is by the front top of the window there are 3 to 4 layers of aluminum that come together. This can't be very good for leak prevention. Let me know what you find once you have removed the windows and inspected the area.
ankornuta, I'm also hoping for some sound reduction with this method, Down the road I'll post if it works.
Don

Don,

I used a product by Würth, called brushable seam sealer. It is formulated to adhere to and seal all types of metal. A commonly used product in automotive manufacturing.
I brushed a thin coat on all the interior seams, hoping that it will prevent freaky and hard to find leaks.
I also brushed a generous amount around all the interior window frames, where they meet the outer skin.
Additionally, I plan on using gutter seal or Par-bond to spot seal the windows from the outside oncemy skin is cleaned up after polishing.

NorCal Bambi · 03-09-2006, 07:55 AM

Just looked at Wurth's web site. Looks like they have many usable products, Thanks Don

NorCal Bambi · 03-11-2006, 08:10 AM

In working on the inside of the outer shell I found many leaks where seams in the shell were made up of several layers of Aluminum sheets. It appears that the type of spray on "Black" sealing material that was used on the 63 Bambi hardened and cracked over time. The normal movement in the shell during towing probably contributed to this. Three pictures are included here to show leak areas. If you are resealing your trailer, my suggestion is that you pay special attention to these areas.

cnssanders · 03-12-2006, 01:14 AM

Hi Don, what an experience with your door!

Good timing on repairing the lower hinge. Hate to see what could have been. Amazing that you were able to recover your screen. It musta had seperation anxiety!

I noticed on my bambi that the door seemed to be a pretty sloppy fit. There is a 3/4" gap on the hinge side between the door and the body. There is a 1/2" gap on the latch side. I didnt know if the door hinges were tweeked, or if they were that way from the factory. Im including a couple of pics I took this afternoon. What do you think?

NorCal Bambi · 03-12-2006, 10:43 AM

cnssanders, caveat: doors and hinges can drive you crazy. It can be one of the most challenging jobs in body work. Also I am not an expert, The motto on my retirement business card is "Dismantle expert-Restoration Apprentice". So with that in mind, here goes. Your Bambi is an Ohio Airstream and mine is a California Bambi. At a recent Rally I was able to inspect and compare my Bambi to an Ohio Bambi, There many differences. First of all on the subject at hand, my door is a suicide door. The chance of you having a door disaster as bad as mine is less likely. I'm sure the basic construction of how your door is fastened to the trailer is close to the same. Two many different metals used in the same place. Because of this I would strongly recommend that you replace all rivets on the door hinge. Now to your door alignment. The type of hinges we have on our Bambies have a lot to do with alignment. First I will reuse your pictures and make comments on the pictures about the things I see. The shine on your trailer is great, but It makes it a little difficult to see detail. I don't think you have shingles on your trailer.

If you relook at my posts 3 207 and 208 you will see how both parts of my hinge are on the outside of the skins. Also the steel plate inside the trailer that gives the door attachment strength to the body.