Final Floor Replacement Technique

[markdoane]

Originally Posted by JohnG

The thread you are referring to is correctly located at http://www.airforums.com/forum...t=osb+flooring and the discussion is not at all about the use of Aluminum for a floor but is instead about OSB floooring which is a material of less quality that any grade of exterior plywood.

Excuse me. The thread cited was about OSB, but did discuss aluminum composite flooring starting at #9.

[JohnG]

Sorry Don,



I didn't mean my comments to step on your toes, and I did miss the aluminum, fiberglass or carbon/kevlar over a core of nomex honey comb material comment. I don't know what the name of the material he is referring to is, what kind of weight it would have, or the cost.

I know the floor I am trying to implement is going to cost bigger bucks than the marine plywood, and that part is going to be weighed into the equation before I finally decide what to do, but I don't think the cost are going to reach the mark of "Out of the question." I am just trying to work the kinks out of this idea to see if it is plausible.



There are a lot of materials that we can use today that are better than plywood, but usually the cost is what keeps most of us using lower grade materials.



I am working my TT from the front to the back so the floor I intend on replacing is last and probably won't even begin until 3 months or so. Believe me I have enough work to keep me busy all during that time. But once I do get to it I would like to have this idea either accepted or rejected so I know which route to take.



Careful planning if you know what I mean.

[JohnG]

I am thinking that the tublar support or stifners may not give support enough and may allow bending of the floor between supports. Would placing one more support across the piece right in the middle take care of this, or am I overkilling it?

[malconium]

There is a type of plastic composite panel that I came very close to using for my floor replacement. The main reason I didn't was that the factory did not have any of the specific product in stock and would not be doing another production run for a month. The factory is also in Iowa and I am in Oregon - hence the shipping costs for 7 - 4'x8' sheets would have added up. I was quoted about $90 per 3/4"x4'x8' sheet of Series 800 panels. They are black by the way. The product is billed as an alternative to marine plywood. Check out the following site for more information:

http://www.hettingatechnology.com/priema/codemo.html

There is another company that I discoverd that sells a lot of different types of composite panels including ones made with aluminum. The price list part of their website does not seem to be working at the moment but you can check out their products at:

http://www.nudo.com/

Malcolm

[JohnG]

I went to their website and requested samples through my company name. Perhaps you have found the perfect solution. That stuff reads like just what we want. The weight is very comparative to marine plywood. it says 73lbs for a sheet 4x8 at 5/8" thickness ao I roughly figure 3/4" sheet would weigh 87.6 lbs. I would however like to see their comparason to marine plywoods strengths since they advertise it as a replacement material. The one thing that concerns me is its strength under high heat. The site only shows testing to 160 degrees, but if it is maintaning all of its strength at that temperture then we will have no problem. I am now wondering if I will have to order multiple sheets to get a certain price.
This stuff is really good sounding. I wish you had tried it then we would have had a 1st hand report. I might just be the guinni-pig here.
I didn't see a price on their site. Did you ask them to send you any samples?

[JohnG]

Just an update, I am still waiting on the CoDeMo samples. Hope they get here soon so I can decide if this material is right for the job.

[roger n cindy]

we also are still researching DuraDeck , the aluminum flooring from Tracker Marine. Were just back from the streetrod nationals in louisville ky. where we broke one of our toys, the 47 chevy suburban. We have three shows in three weeks so repair to the burb is job #1 and the Airstream goes to the back burner, some times life seems unfair? guess we'll drive the woody while the burb is sick ! Anyhow there is a sight that shows just a bit about Dura Deck, if i were as smart as some of you i could post a link ! But i'm one of those who needs Child Supervision to work the computer ! if you do a search for Tracker Marine go to suntracker , there pontoon, then Dura Deck you can see what were looking at.
roger n cindy

[markdoane]

Here's the Duradeck: http://www.suntrackerboats.com/index....storyDuraDeck
John, The CoDeMo samples they send you are only about 2"x3", not much to evaluate as far as bendability.

[bredlo]

Originally Posted by markdoane

Here's the Duradeck: http://www.suntrackerboats.com/index....storyDuraDeck
John, The CoDeMo samples they send you are only about 2"x3", not much to evaluate as far as bendability.

Flexibility is a good point, but at the codemo.com site they list some of the numerous applications they've successfully used this stuff in, and it seems to include many places more demanding than Airstreams:
- saunas/steam rooms
- horse stall liners
- dance floors
- greenhouses
- outdoor furniture.

Pretty cool, and it won't absorb moisture or delaminate over time. If the price is reasonable, sign me up! Can't wait to hear more from JohnG and Malcom.

[markdoane]

Originally Posted by bredlo

Flexibility is a good point, but at the codemo.com site they list some of the numerous applications they've successfully used this stuff in, and it seems to include many places more demanding than Airstreams:
- saunas/steam rooms
- horse stall liners
- dance floors
- greenhouses
- outdoor furniture.

Pretty cool, and it won't absorb moisture or delaminate over time. If the price is reasonable, sign me up! Can't wait to hear more from JohnG and Malcom.

Not to put too fine a point on it, but those are 'suggested' applications, not actual successful applications. I looked at this stuff a while back. It would be great, but the modulus of elasticity indicated to me that I would need to add more support under the floor.

[bredlo]

Originally Posted by markdoane

Not to put too fine a point on it, but those are 'suggested' applications, not actual successful applications. I looked at this stuff a while back. It would be great, but the modulus of elasticity indicated to me that I would need to add more support under the floor.

Perfectly legit clarification - my bad. If it begins to get too far away from the stiffiness of plywood, it will definitely have to be reevaluated. It wouldn't suit me at all, if it felt too spongey underfoot.

[markdoane]

I think the only people that would consider CoDeMo are those doing a full floor replacement. If you have the shell off and the floor out, it wouldn't be difficult to add a few more crossmembers. I certainly don't want to discourage anyone, I would try it if I had more time and money.

[JohnG]

Don,

Get a sample of this stuff sent to you. It surprised me.

I received the CoDeMo samples today and this stuff looks great. That is what I am going to section the back with. This stuff is really strong for its weight.

Now I have to find out where I have to go to get this stiuff. People around here never heard of it. If I have to order it I may just order a bundle cause I always have use for marine plywood and this is even better.

Thanks for putting me onto this stuff Malconium

[markdoane]

Originally Posted by JohnG

Don,

Get a sample of this stuff sent to you. It surprised me.

I received the CoDeMo samples today and this stuff looks great. That is what I am going to section the back with. This stuff is really strong for its weight.

Now I have to find out where I have to go to get this stiuff. People around here never heard of it. If I have to order it I may just order a bundle cause I always have use for marine plywood and this is even better.

Thanks for putting me onto this stuff Malconium

John,
I did get a sample. Unfortunately it wasn't big enough to do any real bend testing, so my comments about adding more stiffeners was based entirely on their published modulus of elasticity numbers. It's hard for me to tell how stiff it is compared to plywood based on a sample only a few inches wide.
Anyway, I wish you great success! I applaud anyone who tries to find a better way to do something.
And a standing ovation if they are willing to share their ideas on the forums.

[JohnG]

Don,

Actually I didn't remember that you had told me about the size of the samples in an earlier post. You have some good points because the size of the samples they sent are too small to effectively do any such test on. I wonder how they woiuld respond if a person asked them for a 2' x 2' at 3/4" sample. I would pay them if they wanted and then I could do a more informative test on the material. I think I will try to get a sample in that size before I just jump in and buy a bunch of this stuff.
I have not yet pulled up the floor in my bathroom. In fact I could go ahead and use the trailer for a little while before I ever have to worry about his since my frame seperation is only like 1/8" right now. So I won't be getting to the floor replacement until my work on the trailer reaches that point. In fact that will be one of the last projects on the old girl. So it being a little while I do have time to look into all the possibly products to use back there, but I have to say that this CoDeMo stuff does look real promising right now.
Got a few questions;
How far apart are the supports in the bathroom floor?
Are there any opens of more than 2 feet where support is void?
Also when you bolt this or any material to the frame dosen't it gain a type of support from the material it is bolted to? Or if pressure is applied to it between the supports will it bend down like a spongey floor and pull the supports themselves toward the center by any fraction?

One more thought, I started this thread with the idea that an aluminum floor would be superior because it will not rot and offers great support. The drawback was the additional weight the aluminum floor would have.
This CoDeMo material looks ok since it is only a few pounds heaver than the marine plywood would be so it works ok in that side of the coin, but if it is too flexible between the supports then it will be of no use.
I suppose someone could stiffen it with the use of angle or tubing, but again it is more weight, added cost, added work, and you have to ask yourself if it is really worth it. Who knows when all is said and done it may just be better to replace with the original material, marine plywood. I am just looking for that perfect material that won't require any maintenance and has no worry I guess.

[markdoane]

John,
Sorry I can't help with the distance between crossmembers in a '75 31' Sovereign. My '59 Tradewind has 24" between, but I know some of the larger models with gray water tanks may have been longer. I don't even know if your model had a gray tank.
Another issue is the rigidity of the crossmembers in your model. Mine are solid, but I know the '75s had 'lightened' crossmembers. That might figure into your calculations.
I would call Codemco and see if they will send you a mill end ot trim piece for testing. I'm sure if you tell them what it's for they will give it to you, but you might need to pay the freight.

[JohnG]

I plan on calling them to talk on Monday. I don't know what material will work out best, but I think this might be worth looking into. I hope they will be able to send me something that will give me a better idea for sure, plus maybe they can tell me where the closest dealer is to find this stuff.

[IceKing02]

John G,

Malconium mentioned the aluminum-skinned, aluminum honey-combed sheets. If you want to contact Hexlite about these pieces you may find that a joint order is the only affordable way. They wouldn't ship fewer than seven carbon/nomex panels, but see if this has changed or is different for aluminum panels. Their stats are absolutely staggering--a Hexlite 230 0.50 inch panel that is .79lbs/sq. ft. A three inch wide by twenty inch long panel deflects a mere 0.15in when subjected to a 100lb. load. The Hexlite fiberglass/Nomex aramid panels are only 0.47lbs/sq ft and deflect only 0.04inches under the 100lb. load. Talk about STIFF. And these are not even the carbon fiber panels. Go for it! I'm all for replacing the floor once...even better to drop 57lbs. per panel every time you put one in.
As was said in the referenced thread, there is no water damage, burning potential or mold/mildew potential. My question was whether or not the aluminum panels had much of an R-value as I'm living in the frozen North...

[IceKing02]

One of the things that may be most importand to the consideration of alternate flooring materials is the effect on flooring flex. There HAS to be a certain amount figured into the original flooring and the flexion has to go somewhere...I wonder if Andy at Inland RV has tried or repaired alternate flooring materials like aluminum, fiberglass or carbon/kevlar?

[malconium]

John,

Did you ever get any more information about the Codemo panels?

Malcolm