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Old 10-10-2012, 02:13 PM   #1
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1975 31' Sovereign
Pierre , South Dakota
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Door jamb too wide after shell off.

After welding up new frame I copied as much of the old subframe as possible. Basically the rear 2 Ft. and the front curves were mush. I installed the new subfloor, leaving the front and rear long to scribe to fit. After a couple of scribe and cut I have a very good fit on both ends of the subfloor.
I have center lines on frame, front hold down plate and subfloor, and trailer shell front and rear, all line up within 1/16"
The problem I have is with the door, door jamb margins. The front off hinge side, the door just touches the jamb large margin 5/8". Hinge side of the door has 1/8" to 3/16" margin. Also the door is scrubbing the threshold.
Now in retrospect before the shell off I knew I had problems in this area as there was a wide margin at the front of the door and the threshold of the frame was cracked front and rear. My intentions were to fit everything up and then before final assembly weld up threshold.
In picture 1 you can see the center line of the hold plate.

In picture 2 notice the wide door margin to the front and the door scrubbing the threshold.

The 3rd and 4th picture show the threshold.
I have added other pictures to show the overall position of the shell and subfloor fit.
So I guest my question is how do I go about reducing the door jamb margin on the off hinge side?
Thanks,
Jack
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Old 10-10-2012, 02:53 PM   #2
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If you mean what I think you mean, in that the door frame is out too far at the floor, you have the exact same problem we had. The plywood floor needs to be notched to allow the door frame to slide in far enough so the threshold meets the plywood. When we installed our plywood floor, I missed the two notches for the door frame. I don't have exact measurements for you, but I think the notches were about 3/4" wide and 1/2" deep. The two holes in the threshold need to line up with the holes in tip of the outriggers under the door.
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Old 10-10-2012, 05:39 PM   #3
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Minno,
I missed that dado in the plywood for the door threshold. I will cut that out tomorrow and hopefully that will square up the door frame.
All the plywood around the door was gone long before I started this project. I keep laughing at myself, when I bought this project I told myself "One sheet of plywood in the rear, spruce up,clean up and we're camping".
But I have gotten a real good airstream education. As a matter of fact after I complete the plumbing I will apply for my PHD in AIRSTREAM REBUILD.
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Old 10-10-2012, 06:22 PM   #4
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Quote:
after I complete the plumbing I will apply for my PHD in AIRSTREAM REBUILD.
Bzzt. Your next step is to compete in the selection process for an unpaid Intern position for 200 hours of gopher & polishing duty in hopes to be selected for the seven year apprentice program that grants the eligibility to apply for upper-level programs.

I also skipped notching the floor for the door but the '73 27' floor was nearly one-inch off center as-found, and when that was corrected (negotiated) everything lined up within 1/4" or so and all dimensions on the two-hinge door-to-frame seem as workable as original. There may* be a mild flare or barely noticeable profile change of the shell at that point but it's locked into the outriggers for keeps... Only time will tell if I dood wrong
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Old 10-10-2012, 06:33 PM   #5
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I completed my 200 hours of unpaid internship the first week. I would like to submit my year and a half Cessna 195 AIRCRAFT POLISHING Duty. I understand that those credits will transfer
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Old 10-10-2012, 06:40 PM   #6
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In reviewing my credits for PHD I realize I will have to take Zip DEE Remove, Reinforce, and replace 401 before I can submit my application.
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Old 10-10-2012, 07:00 PM   #7
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We're sorry - that 200 hours is in semester credit hours which corresponds to 15 contact hours per semester credit hour. Please re-apply in another 2700 hours...

Quote:
One sheet of plywood in the rear, spruce up,clean up and we're camping..
Yup. First thing I bought for the trailer were some packs of engineered wood flooring for the bath area, bought from the 're-use store' - that are now sleeping in a landfill somewhere quite unused. I am afraid I am living proof the road to 'Streamin is paved with good intentions....
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Old 10-11-2012, 06:39 PM   #8
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I think that anyone who successfully completes a "shell off" restortation of an AS trailer deserves to have a PHD in "Airstream Rebuild".
I'll bet that there are more than twice as many "shell off" restorations that are started than are completed.
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Old 10-16-2012, 06:42 PM   #9
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Well after removing the shell and cutting out for the door sill plate, The door to door Jamb margin is still 3/4 inch at the bottom on the front side of the door. The rest of the door margin is approx, 1/8"/At the front of the door at the top it has a good margin then expands as it goes down to 3/4".
I'm out of ideas. Anyone have suggestions?
Thanks,
Jack
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Old 10-16-2012, 07:04 PM   #10
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Could this be an incidence of the hinge pin being worn and just coincidentally it's bound and rotated to amplify the lean?
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Old 10-16-2012, 07:11 PM   #11
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I'm having trouble envisioning exactly where your gap is... Is it possible the frame of the door got warped?

And the trailer is completely level right?
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Old 10-16-2012, 09:50 PM   #12
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I checked the hinge pins, grab front bottom of door and pull up very little movement, Also checked for hinge alignment, screws tight, no play in hinge for adjustment that I can see.
The front of the door at the bottom is 3/4" from the door jamb when closed, you can see inside the trailer at the bottom of the door 3/4" gap.
It is possible the door frame is racked, and I thought no problem just drill out door jamb and square it all up and install. Only problem is the door opening was cut to large to start off, the rivets are barely catching the side sheets of aluminum, any movement to square up the door and there will not be aluminum to rivet into, in aircraft terms there is NO edge distance in the aluminum/rivets.
Before shell off there was a large margin, but everything was rotten/rusted underneath so I assumed once a solid foundation was established the door would square up into the door jamb.
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Old 10-17-2012, 03:05 AM   #13
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I see most of you guys doing these shell offs are going for your PHD's. I wish I could but I don't see how I could every get it done. Maybe the next owner will tackle it.
If the floor falls out of mine I'll grab some friends and we will Fred Flintstone it down the road.
All joking aside you guys have earned my respect .
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Old 10-17-2012, 06:30 AM   #14
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Call it in or post it to the VAP's Facebook page. I think they are broadcasting tonite and its a good question for Colin.

theVAP - The Vintage Airstream Podcast | Facebook
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Old 10-17-2012, 07:01 AM   #15
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So, the door won't close all the way at the bottom, right? The door frame is in it's proper place and bolted to the outriggers through the plywood floor? If yes, then your door itself is wracked. The door can be re-curved.

There are some threads on the forums on how to do that. We have a few pictures on how we re-curved our door in our Little Girl thread http://www.airforums.com/forums/f185...b-50967-6.html in post 76. I made a plywood template (1/2" plywood) to match the curve of the door frame on both sides of the door (two templates), and used them as a guide to get the correct curve on both sides of the door. It's fairly easy to get the door to match the curve of the template on the non-hinge side because you can clamp the door to the template. Harder to do that on the hinge side though. From what I've read on the forums, it would be easier to re-curve your door if you take it off the trailer. I'll probably do that next year.

One thing to watch for. When you take the inner skins off to re-curve the door, look at the door frame and see if it's cracked anywhere. If yes, you should get the cracked repaired. Your door frame is probably cast aluminum, which would be difficult to weld back together. I read in one thread where someone fixed his cracked frame with an aluminum brazing type kit, which I bought to repair my door frame (that next year door project again). If I can find the link for that kit again, I'll post it here.

Chris
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Old 10-17-2012, 02:37 PM   #16
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One thing conspicuously absent is absolute opening measurements.

From my two trailers:

1972 = 28-1/2" exactly top to bottom; old style door, frame skinned over.

1973 = 28-9/16" top; 28-11/16" bottom; two hinge w/ external frame.

What says you?
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Old 10-17-2012, 04:25 PM   #17
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I have done a lot of auto body work and frame straightening in my day, restored 2 Airstreams and one Avion, and after reading what you have done I think I know what's wrong. When you re did the floor in the front, the radius on the corners was off just a little. It was a little large, so when the aluminum skin wrapped around it, since the distance around the right front corner was longer by only 1/2" or so the door jam gap got wider as the the side wall got used up by the bigger radius. This would not have happened if the door jam was still welded in all 4 corners but your was broken in the lower right corner. Thus allowing it to spread. The fix is to re do the front floor with a little less radius so the walls will come back toward the door to even out the gaps. The C channel will need to be un fastened from the floor so that the wall can move. Hope this all makes sense. Good luck, Brian
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Old 10-17-2012, 05:13 PM   #18
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I will check my door measurements.
I am at about the same conclusion about the front radius. This is the only place there was a deviation from the original. Also in trying to keep things as water tight as possible I scribed to the outside of the aluminum along the radius leaving just within the line.(measure twice cut once)
The real problem right now the winds are 40 gust to 70 for the next 48+ hours, so hopefully I have secured the shell, if not I'm sure upon landing on the prairie it will cure my door problem.
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Old 10-17-2012, 06:34 PM   #19
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The one visible, or multiple(?) welds (is it OEM or repairs?) on the cracked bottom frame threshold may have introduced some 'spread' to the equation too... the shadow line air gap on both sides shows either its being pulled apart or debris in the gap kept it from closing up when/if strain was released...
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Old 10-17-2012, 07:11 PM   #20
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Dang, what he just said... The weld in one of the photos is all wrong and that is where the twist is. The frame broke, was welded improperly and broke again.
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