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Old 04-16-2023, 11:59 AM   #1
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1977 Argosy Minuet 6.0 Metre
2007 25' International CCD FB
2018 28' Flying Cloud
Vancouver , Washington
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Discoloration of Vinyl Flooring in 2018 Flying Cloud

We have a 2018 model 28 Flying Cloud. A few months ago, while in Sothern California for a few months, the flooring in front of the kitchen area, (stove/sink), began to turn blotchy with dark spots. It progressively got worse until it got to the point I felt I needed to see what was under the flooring…. See what the subfloor was like.
Let me share that I had tried cleaning the floor to no avail. I had checked for leaks but could find none. But I felt there had to be water above the subfloor and below the vinyl. There have been no rugs or floor covering used; no spills, no dirty shoes tracking something in that would have discolored the area.
So I took a razor knife and started cutting. To my amazement the subfloor was dry. However the subfloor does have areas that appear to have been wet at some point. Mainly around the screws that anchor the subfloor/plywood to the frame (see photos). From this I thought the wetness came from below the subfloor penetrating thru the points where the screw holes are. So I removed a couple of screws to inspect. To my amazement the screws we rusty on the top half but shinny on the bottom half. This made me think the water was penetrating the hole from above, not from below.
I should also share that the plumbing does hold pressure when the water pump is on. That is, the pump builds pressure and does not leak down such that the pump runs. I have also hooked the hose to city water and looked for leaks but found none. We live in the Pacific Northwest and had rain for weeks, but found no leaks.
Soooooo, help me figure this out. I will include photos. Let me know your questions.
Thanks
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Old 04-16-2023, 12:31 PM   #2
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IMO, and as you say, it has been wet at some point.
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Old 04-16-2023, 03:58 PM   #3
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Could the AC be dripping there?
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Old 04-16-2023, 06:14 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Ware View Post
Could the AC be dripping there?
John, I did check the A/C discharge and it is not the problem. Actually we have not ran the AC since July 2022.
thanks
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Old 04-16-2023, 08:18 PM   #5
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Ugh, sorry to see this.

Curious about what appears to be a pink or reddish stain on the plywood on pic 4. Was the unit winterized? I know you said the pump holds pressure, curious though if you have a p trap leak that leaked RV antifreeze over the winter. No expert but the black corrosion on the screw heads looks suspicious like some kind of oxide, unsure if plain water would cause a black stain like that. Or, did someone run antifreeze through the pump last fall and it spilled?
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Old 04-17-2023, 06:03 AM   #6
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Discoloration of Vinyl Flooring in 2018 Flying Cloud

Water could be entering through exterior vents, sometimes from around the gasket of the vent. Water can enter, travel and settle in low spots under the floating vinyl floor it can stay wet because the vinyl is non porous. The red, could be a type of mold ( guess ). I would be surprised if the subfloor is not wet now? It way be worthwhile for a pressure test. Looking at one photo it looks like there is a space between sheets of subfloor, so water lying may drain down from there.
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Old 04-17-2023, 10:34 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by starlite29 View Post
Ugh, sorry to see this.

Curious about what appears to be a pink or reddish stain on the plywood on pic 4. Was the unit winterized? I know you said the pump holds pressure, curious though if you have a p trap leak that leaked RV antifreeze over the winter. No expert but the black corrosion on the screw heads looks suspicious like some kind of oxide, unsure if plain water would cause a black stain like that. Or, did someone run antifreeze through the pump last fall and it spilled?

That is an interesting observation. I had not given the pink area any thought.
Living in Vancouver we seldom get below freezing, but I do winterize, first blowing out the lines (low pressure) and then pumping antifreeze (pink) thru the lines and pouring some in the sink, shower and bath sink. I have not spilled any. It could have leaked, but I would think it would still be leaking and the floor would be wet. It is not. I find this even more concerning. If it is an intermittent issue, it can be harder to locate and fix.
At this time, our plan is to use the AS without new flooring. So hopefully it will leak again and we can locate the source.
Thanks
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Old 04-17-2023, 11:02 AM   #8
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Interesting to hear your story. We have the same issue with discoloration but not as severe. Someone stated this is floating floor covering. My guess was maybe some type of adhesive chemical reaction with the flooring and plywood. Maybe a residue left behind from construction. I also checked for leaks inside and found none. Keep us posted I would be interested in hearing the cause.
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Old 04-17-2023, 11:18 AM   #9
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Same situation exactly!

I have seen other threads on this and the general consensus is either water or a reaction of the vinyl and adhesive. Ours is in the exact same place and looks the same. (2015 28’ Flying Cloud). My husband has torn things apart trying to see if water has travelled in from somewhere. No clues. It’s baffling but apparently not uncommon. Sure wish AS could help us with this — something is faulty somewhere.
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Old 04-17-2023, 05:51 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silvr_Bullet View Post
Water could be entering through exterior vents, sometimes from around the gasket of the vent. Water can enter, travel and settle in low spots under the floating vinyl floor it can stay wet because the vinyl is non porous. The red, could be a type of mold ( guess ). I would be surprised if the subfloor is not wet now? It way be worthwhile for a pressure test. Looking at one photo it looks like there is a space between sheets of subfloor, so water lying may drain down from there.

The seal/caulk around the vents on the roof appear good.
Having cut the vinyl and inspected under it, the floor is dry.... at least on top.
I do intend to get a pressure test. We have club members that perform them annually.

Red mold is an interesting thought. Researching red mold, I find some interesting facts...... "Red mold is a fungus, whereas pink mold is actually a water-borne bacterium commonly found in bathrooms." So I will properly clean the pink areas before we go out again.
Thanks for the ideas.
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Old 04-17-2023, 06:19 PM   #11
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DonDiego,
We’ve had the same experience with our 2020 23FB FC. I approached Airstream and the dealer, since our unit should still be under warranty. They seemed more focused on deflecting, claiming it was the fault of floor coverings, in spite of the fact that it REALLY looks like something coming from below. Hence, the thread I started was titled, “Throw out that Airstream mat - now!”
Since then, my wife noticed a small amount of water in front of the fridge after we had parked the trailer at our house and shut down the fridge. I removed the panel covering the pump, and noticed drip marks on the wheel well. Upon opening the lower fridge compartment door outside, I found that the defrost drain hose was positioned in the middle of the pan, not in the door frame so as to assure water draining to the outside. I also noticed that an electrical penetration was not fully sealed, which allowed the draining water to flow onto the top of the wheel well, and from there onto the subfloor and under the linoleum.
I have an appointment with the dealer in about two months, and if they can “recreate the scenario” I may be eligible for a warranty repair.
I would be very interested if you or others have the same situation: the improperly positioned drain and the penetration in the floor pan. It would account for the very intermittent, hard to diagnose cause for this damage.
BTW, after our last trip, with the hose properly positioned, there was a LOT of water on the pavement when the fridge defrosted.
Good luck!
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Old 04-18-2023, 04:54 PM   #12
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I am now experiencing this same stain and I have checked everywhere. Nothing is leaking, nothing has been spilled on the area, no rugs covered it. Same location, in front of microwave. I have checked all outside compartments - no leaks. Even the refrigerator compartment door outside - dusty no water stains. It seems to have stabilized and is no longer growing in size. The floor is not mushy - I think I will just put a rug over it until I can get someone to tear up the floor and thoroughly check it. Although I now suspect it is some kind of adhesive that is reacting some how.
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Old 04-18-2023, 07:19 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yellowcake View Post
I am now experiencing this same stain and I have checked everywhere. Nothing is leaking, nothing has been spilled on the area, no rugs covered it. Same location, in front of microwave. I have checked all outside compartments - no leaks. Even the refrigerator compartment door outside - dusty no water stains. It seems to have stabilized and is no longer growing in size. The floor is not mushy - I think I will just put a rug over it until I can get someone to tear up the floor and thoroughly check it. Although I now suspect it is some kind of adhesive that is reacting some how.
Yellowcake,
Have you checked for water infiltration when your fridge is defrosting? (Read over the post I made preceding yours.)
Depending on the amount of frost present from running the fridge, and the condensation that will occur as the fridge inside-shell warms (especially on a humid day), you can easily see 8 ounces or more of water. If defrost drain hose is not laying in the door frame, and the parking angle of your trailer directs the water towards the interior of that compartment, water can leak down from any opening in the pan under the fridge and from there, under your linoleum.
No “leak” is necessary for the water to infiltrate, so don’t be surprised you haven’t found one.
Other members (and my dealer) indicate that this is a floating floor. It is held in place by the cabinet bases without the use of adhesives.
Good luck.
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Old 04-18-2023, 08:16 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GetawA-S View Post
DonDiego,
We’ve had the same experience with our 2020 23FB FC. I approached Airstream and the dealer, since our unit should still be under warranty. They seemed more focused on deflecting, claiming it was the fault of floor coverings, in spite of the fact that it REALLY looks like something coming from below. Hence, the thread I started was titled, “Throw out that Airstream mat - now!”
Since then, my wife noticed a small amount of water in front of the fridge after we had parked the trailer at our house and shut down the fridge. I removed the panel covering the pump, and noticed drip marks on the wheel well. Upon opening the lower fridge compartment door outside, I found that the defrost drain hose was positioned in the middle of the pan, not in the door frame so as to assure water draining to the outside. I also noticed that an electrical penetration was not fully sealed, which allowed the draining water to flow onto the top of the wheel well, and from there onto the subfloor and under the linoleum.
I have an appointment with the dealer in about two months, and if they can “recreate the scenario” I may be eligible for a warranty repair.
I would be very interested if you or others have the same situation: the improperly positioned drain and the penetration in the floor pan. It would account for the very intermittent, hard to diagnose cause for this damage.
BTW, after our last trip, with the hose properly positioned, there was a LOT of water on the pavement when the fridge defrosted.
Good luck!



I read you post/thread. Sounds unreal.
I just check the frig discharge hose and it is anchored such that water could flow only to the outside of the trailer. I do want to turn the frig on and confirm that the water is coming out it and not elsewhere under the frig. Being a Model 28, we have a larger frig than you and it does not set on a wheel well. Thanks for the help and good luck on your issue. Our floors do look the same...... so keep me posted on the solution and I will do the same.
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Old 04-19-2023, 01:36 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GetawA-S View Post
Yellowcake,
Have you checked for water infiltration when your fridge is defrosting? (Read over the post I made preceding yours.)
Depending on the amount of frost present from running the fridge, and the condensation that will occur as the fridge inside-shell warms (especially on a humid day), you can easily see 8 ounces or more of water. If defrost drain hose is not laying in the door frame, and the parking angle of your trailer directs the water towards the interior of that compartment, water can leak down from any opening in the pan under the fridge and from there, under your linoleum.
No “leak” is necessary for the water to infiltrate, so don’t be surprised you haven’t found one.
Other members (and my dealer) indicate that this is a floating floor. It is held in place by the cabinet bases without the use of adhesives.
Good luck.
I checked the defrost drain hose and it is strapped in place to drain to the outside. I have removed and inspected every single panel from the inside and outside. No water leaks at the hot water tank, under the sink, at the water pump, under the shower pan, or refrigerator. All outside compartments are dry.

I am full time, and move frequently, so I am always checking for any unusual activity around, inside or under my airstream. I did have a small water puddle in front of the fridge after a travel day, which I immediately traced back to the drip pan inside the fridge. The drain hole was clogged, so I cleaned it and no further issues. I don't think this has anything to do with the stain. I also defrost my fridge on a regular basis, so nothing that would compound over time.

At the time I noticed the stains on the floor, I did a thorough check (noted above). I thought about what was "different" at this campground. Two things, the city water pressure was very high and I had used an elbow connection to attach the water filter directly to the city water intake on the side of the airstream (rather than at the campground spigot which is the norm for me - but it wouldn't fit this time). I checked the water flow to make sure it was correctly moving through the filter - it was. It has happened in the past, when city water pressure is super high, that it "force fills" my fresh tank. However, on this occasion, my fresh tank was already full. So was the "force fill" going somewhere else? I shut off city water and only used my fresh tank and water pump for the balance of this stay.

I also crawled under the airstream and found an area near the "Jack" location on the drivers side that would periodically drip drops of water. I saw no cracks in any of my holding tanks and all connections were dry. I realized the "jack" stand area is almost directly below the shower. This was when I started taking off panels to check below the shower and the fridge for potential water pooling inside that would slowly make its way outside by the jack). Nothing. After turning off city water - the water droplets stopped (not sure exactly when, but when I checked 3 days later, there were no more drops).

Is it possible that the "force fill" overflowed and pushed water up to the floor between my dining area and the microwave? Outside temperatures were very moderate, so I'm guessing condensation would not be an issue (not too hot or too cold).

I understand that the fresh tank has an overfill valve that spits any excess back outside (like when I manually fill the fresh tank and actually wait for it to spit water back at me). I did not see any water leaking from the fresh fill valve down the side of the airstream, nor any puddles below this area.

I have noticed that the area with the stains is the only section of the floor with micro holes in it (from dropped silverware for example). The holes are ball point pen sized to maybe a tear of 1/4". Is it possible that air has oxidized the chemicals used in adhering the vinyl to the subfloor and this would create the stain? Long shot - but just brainstorming......

Any thoughts or suggestions are welcome. I am currently in Baja, Mexico and won't be in the States for several more months - so won't be able to get her to a dealership for a while. Currently, the stains seems to be dissipating slightly (maybe wishful thinking). I have videos and photos with time, date and progress documented.
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Old 04-20-2023, 04:42 PM   #16
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Frig Drain

GetawA-S
I checked how the frig drain was working. I had inspected the discharge and saw it anchored in place. I thought it looked good and would drain down the side of the trailer. But when I poured some water into the catch tray inside the frig and then ran outside to observe, I was surprised. The water that came out poured onto the rubber gasket that goes around the door opening. From there it disappeared.

I disconnected the clamp and rerouted the hose and then reanchored the clamp. Doing so the hose extends about an inch further out. Then I poured another cup of water into the tray inside the frig. This time the water discharged and ran down the trailer side.
I am not sure this was the root of my problem, but not I am confident it will not be moving forward.
I attached a couple of photos....
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Old 04-23-2023, 10:51 AM   #17
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Mold!
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Old 04-23-2023, 01:34 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DonDiego View Post
We have a 2018 model 28 Flying Cloud. A few months ago, while in Sothern California for a few months, the flooring in front of the kitchen area, (stove/sink), began to turn blotchy with dark spots. It progressively got worse until it got to the point I felt I needed to see what was under the flooring…. See what the subfloor was like.
Let me share that I had tried cleaning the floor to no avail. I had checked for leaks but could find none. But I felt there had to be water above the subfloor and below the vinyl. There have been no rugs or floor covering used; no spills, no dirty shoes tracking something in that would have discolored the area.
So I took a razor knife and started cutting. To my amazement the subfloor was dry. However the subfloor does have areas that appear to have been wet at some point. Mainly around the screws that anchor the subfloor/plywood to the frame (see photos). From this I thought the wetness came from below the subfloor penetrating thru the points where the screw holes are. So I removed a couple of screws to inspect. To my amazement the screws we rusty on the top half but shinny on the bottom half. This made me think the water was penetrating the hole from above, not from below.
I should also share that the plumbing does hold pressure when the water pump is on. That is, the pump builds pressure and does not leak down such that the pump runs. I have also hooked the hose to city water and looked for leaks but found none. We live in the Pacific Northwest and had rain for weeks, but found no leaks.
Soooooo, help me figure this out. I will include photos. Let me know your questions.
Thanks
I have the very same problem,
I had a leak at the shore water connection. Had to gut out the complete trailer and replace the floor. 28 ft flying cloud
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Old 04-23-2023, 03:25 PM   #19
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2017 28' Flying Cloud
Bergen , New York
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I had the same issue with water leaking under my stove. I thought it was the water pump, as it seemed to only happen when using the water tank. So I ordered a replacement Water pump. When I installed the new pump I also replace d the O-rings on the inlet and out let sides of the pump. On our next trip I found that the leak continued. Upon further investigation I noticed that the plastic sediment filter thats before the water pump was leaking. The bottom cap need to be tightened. This has fixed our leak.

Make sure your sediment filter is not loose or cracked.
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