Body Separation

[Silvertwinkie]

Originally Posted by Inland RV Center, In

Gosh, last I knew, Ford and GM and still working on problems from the early 70's.

And coupled with that, they have some brand new ones for the last 10 years.

How dare Airstream create a product, that's less than perfect?

And so it is.

Andy

Don't misunderstand me, no one is perfect, but if I buy a Mercedes, I expect a certain level of quality and materials for the price paid above what I would have gotten if I had bought a Hyundai or a Chevy. I don't expect Mercedes to take out engine or frame supports critical to keeping the engine in the bay or chassis from over torquing. I don't expect Mercedes to know a sunroof or door leaks and has had chronic leaks on new vehicles for 4 years. I also don't expect Mercedes to sell me a car who's body, as early as 6 months off the production floor to start to show body/paint blemishes, and has know about it for at least 7 model years.

I ranked Airstream on par with Mercedes and maybe that was my fault, but it's hard not to when the base model new Bambi is about $35k and the average new Airstream costs upwards of $50k or even more, when the competition starts out at $15k for a similar sized trailer. The company itself touts itself as "The World's Finest Travel Trailers". Heck Andy, even you say on your website, "we don't make the product, we make the product better." Why can't Airstream start out that way? Lately I've heard them walking from certain warranty claims....can't verify it, but when more than one or two folks say that, you have to start to consider it a possibility....and that is warranty issues that should be covered, but are not.

Your're right Andy, shame on me for thinking that I bought a well engineered and "World's Finest Travel Trailer" and that my expectations that the factory who clearly has known about these issues not be held responsible for building a quality long lasting product...and you're right Andy, if my unit has this front end separation, I should further have zero concerns about paying about $2k to have a design flaw fixed.

Oh and Airstream compromise? Their compromise to my corrosion was to sand down all the spots and put clear nail polish all over my unit. I should expect my front end separation to be treated differently? Have the replaced the supports and plates to the units on the production line yet?

I've agreed with you on many, many occasions Andy, and this one I simply cannot accept or agree with you on.

[Inland RV Center, In]

But, the problem, or should I say the question, is if Mercedes cars are so great, why do they insist that their dealers have trained service departments.

Last I knew, is that those service departments did the PM stuff, BUT, they were also there to fix or correct the things that went "south."

Now, since Airstreams production is about one (1) percent of Mercedes, I can then expect that Airstream only does about a 99 percent of the product research that Mercedes does, which leaves room for the "oops."

But on the other hand, the Mercedes cars, do not have a water heater, a toilet, a black or gray tank, 50 gallons of fresh water, a bed or two, a refrigerator with a freezer compatment, a sink to do dishes, cabinets to store things, or a place to take a shower or a bath, a place to roast a chicken or a place to scramble the eggs, and it certainly does not have window drapes or blinds.

But on the other hand, Airstream trailers do not have windshield wipers.

Hmmmm.

Maybe Mercedes should check out what Airstream does.

Andy

[Silvertwinkie]

C'mon Andy, you're playing semantics now. Clearly Airstream has authorized service centers where the tech folks at the RV dealership are required to go to the factory for some level of training. Additionally, you're right Mercedes too is not perfect, but they don't take supports out that can compromise the vehicle. More over you are also right in saying the Mercedes does not have a bed, fridge, etc (except in Sprinter form). The Mercedes does have far more technical parts, like an engine, transmission, axles, computer controls, emission systems, etc, all that work (and are far more complicated that what Airstream does) and are honored under warranty-- few if any questions asked. Heck my dad had a 1982 300DT and well out of warranty, Mercedes picked up the price of the part and my pops paid 1/2 the labor and he was something like 10 years out of warranty and at least 70k miles out of the mileage part of the warranty. This is supporting the customer. Our Honda Accord had the trans fail on a V6. Again, just out of warranty, and just missed the recall numbers. Guess what, Honda covered the whole thing....again, great customer support, which makes happy lifelong customers.

What do we get with Airstream? Go put nail polish on your Airstream, or from what I read here, you want your front frame seperation fixed, $1900 please. Real customer oriented.

Though true Airstream most likely makes 1% of Mercedes total output, that is totally irrelevant due to it being economies of scale and, Airstream has the backing of the largest RV builder in the counrty, Thor, so though Airstream has but 1%, the overall company has significantly more that 1% of the RV market and has the resources to design, build and support a quality product. Everything else you've brought up are simple excuses. If I gave folks at work these types of excuses, I'd be out of a job and rightly so. I think my unit may have this and is why I am so frustrated at yet another issue with my Airstream.

Clearly your site saying we don't make the product, we make the product better realizes that the factory has shortcomings that you are able to make up and make a buck off, which is great, thank goodness for folks like you that can help the community. My point is the factory should be doing this well in advance and not giving these sorry excuses. Build a great product and follow up with outstanding support. Mistakes that are made are fixed with as little impact to the customer as possible. However this has not really happened and it's a numbers game, with only what appears to be a small window of any real customer support. To date, I've had few issues with Airstream, but recall I was under warranty and all the folks there I really like, I just don't care for what I am seeing and having to go through with such a new unit. It's ridiculous, and unacceptable, plain and simple.

I fully understand your relationship to Airstream and you can't come off in public sounding too upset with them, but give us all a little credit here too that we are all not just blindly drinking the Kool-Aid and accepting this and lying down saying it's just the way it is.....

[Inland RV Center, In]

Originally Posted by Silvertwinkie

I fully understand your relationship to Airstream and you can't come off in public sounding too upset with them, but give us all a little credit here too that we are all not just blindly drinking the Kool-Aid and accepting this and lying down saying it's just the way it is.....

I can and have been very upset with Airstream, a number of times, in my 42 plus years.

I really think the problem today, is probably less feedback from the dealerships.

We also, instead of having better in field service, not only with Airstream, but many products as well, have more of a , if you wish, sort of "that's good enough for me, so that should be good enough for everyone else," attitude with all to many of todays services.

I firmly disagree with that kind of attitude and always have. My web site, as you have pointed out, says what I live for. Unfortunately, maybe because I'm from the old school and therefore don't see eye to eye with all to many places of repair services.

I also feel strongly, that factory feedback today, in spite of computers, is not, generally speaking, what it used to be.

To me, complaining about problems with a product today, just doesn't seem to carry the weight that it used to carry.

Perhaps, if most of the owners would get together, and combine their issues, and have that submitted to, in this case, Airstream, maybe more affirmative results could be obtained, instead of one here and one there.

I don't feel that the annual 4th of July rally, would even be a fair place to start.

Perhaps a "very specific" late model Airstream complaint thread, where owners could list the exact problems, and refrain from writing a novel about it, would, I think, be a great start.

Certainly, there are hundreds of late model owners that are members of this Forums, that I feel could be a positive influence to Airstream management.

After a couple of dozen or so entries on that thread, they could very easily be forwarded to Airstream.

Again, at least in my opinion, specifics without a long drawn out story attached, would be an "attention getter."

To me, a positive means of communications back to the factory, would in short order, bring positive results.

For all of us, be it dealer or owner, to keep on kicking this situation back and forth, as has been done for a way to long of a period of time, should stop in it's tracks by having perhaps a simple form to fill out on this Forums, which would be gathered with others, and submitted as a group to Airstream management.

Perhaps that might be a slow beginning, but I venture to say, it would be far better than the jibber jabber, that obviously and very clearly, has accomplished absolutely zero to nothing.

Maybe the mods could pick one person to edit if necessary those forms, and submit them in an orderly fashion, and report back, on this Forums, the feedback from Airstream, to the rest of it's members.

I feel very confident, that positive results would be forth coming, in a short period of time.

Now the key question.

How many say "aye", and how many say "nay."

Please post back, one of those two words, without any other comments, at least in this thread.

I will bet, that many "ayes", will shortly follow.

If not, then so be it.

Andy

[Silvertwinkie]

Oh Andy......if it were just that simple......

[HiHoAgRV]

While I have the front of my 34' gutted doing a floor replacement I thought it might be a good time to add in the front support to prevent front end separation. The photo below shows how little structure there is in the area. Unless somebody has a better idea, I plan on putting a piece of sheet aluminum bent with a 90 deg flange that will bolt to the two existing bolts thru the floor then add a couple of rows of rivits thru the outer skin.

[HowieE]

Originally Posted by HiHoAgRV

While I have the front of my 34' gutted doing a floor replacement I thought it might be a good time to add in the front support to prevent front end separation. The photo below shows how little structure there is in the area. Unless somebody has a better idea, I plan on putting a piece of sheet aluminum bent with a 90 deg flange that will bolt to the two existing bolts thrugh the floor then add a couple of rows of rivets thru the outer skin.

Pull the banana strip off the front of the trailer. You can pop rivet directly through to the existing C channel and double or triple the numbers of rivets that are there. I don't see any broken rivets or elongated holes around the rivets so I would assume you have not yet suffered any separation. However you will get a better view if you remove the strip and see the heads of the rivets.

Also if you do add an angle you will be able to rivet to it and have the strip cover the new rivets.

Check my post 19, 20,and 46 on this tread to see what I am talking about

[HiHoAgRV]

Originally Posted by HowieE

...
Check my post 19, 20,and 46 on this tread to see what I am talking about

That's the photo I was looking for! #46 is what I am planning on doing. I don't yet have the issues that you did so I'm trying to avoid it! There isn't much strength in this thing the way it stands!

[newsgauger]

Hopefully, this rings in where I stopped reading the thread ‘Body Separation’ (page 3), if not I apologize.

First off, I’m new to the AIR forum and what brought me here is…I’m looking to gather as much information on airstream trailers to assist me through my selection process, which is currently ’87-’89 29’ Sovereign and/or Excella model with ‘Side-Bath’ and ‘Rear Twins’.

And, the reason I rang in here is the fact that I’m confused about a couple of points, as follows:

1) Is body separation, in this case, of HowieE’s 34’ Excella due to too rigid a tow vehicle? Or
2) Weakness in the frame, somewhere? Or
3) Both of the above?

2air you and Andy (Inland RV Center) mention ‘Springs’ and ‘Spring Bars’, which I presume reflects on the tow vehicle. While Artstream and others speak about plates and floor frames.

My concern is that I don’t want ‘Both'...to reflect on my decision - ’87-’89 29’ Sovereign/Excella with my tow vehicle (2010 Ford F150, SuperCrew, 4X4, 6.5’ box, 4.6L engine, 6-Speed auto-trans, with 3.55 Rear-end)!

Again, hopefully, someone on this forum can give me some insight into whether or not I’m looking at the correct combination. And, if I’m not give me some worldly advise (a.k.a. steer me in the right direction).

Thanks for your time,
Chris