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05-29-2012, 09:40 PM
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#401
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2 Rivet Member
Tomball
, Texas
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 61
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Top,
I looks like you've got a new neighbor. I just picked up a 73 31' int. and am in the NW Houston burbs.
I came across this thread looking to figure out why the rear bath counters in mine had separated from the walls, and thinking that the angle iron/turnbuckle contraption on the back of the trailer from the frame to the body might be related. Your sag repairs have given me some direction for sure, but Im a bit nervous to dive that far in.
Do you know any members in the Houston area who I might be able to hook up with if and when I hit a snag?
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05-30-2012, 05:09 AM
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#402
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Always learning
1972 29' Ambassador
1962 19' Globetrotter
1951 21' Flying Cloud
Central
, Texas
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 2,881
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Rear end torture device
Quote:
Originally Posted by TxBxSx
Top,
I looks like you've got a new neighbor. I just picked up a 73 31' int. and am in the NW Houston burbs.
I came across this thread looking to figure out why the rear bath counters in mine had separated from the walls, and thinking that the angle iron/turnbuckle contraption on the back of the trailer from the frame to the body might be related. Your sag repairs have given me some direction for sure, but Im a bit nervous to dive that far in.
Do you know any members in the Houston area who I might be able to hook up with if and when I hit a snag?
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Hey Tx,
I saw the pics of that crazy contraption on your trailer. Looks painful, or painful to look at
There are a few Houstonites Houstoners-Houstonians here on the forums. A few have recently completed, or are in the process of doing shell off restorations. Here is a good thread for you to read.
http://www.airforums.com/forums/f305...gun-52872.html
Don't be afraid to dig in. You'll have plenty of help here on the forum.
__________________
Lance
Work is never done, so take time to play!
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05-30-2012, 10:18 AM
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#403
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2 Rivet Member
1973 27' Overlander
Talent
, Oregon
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Top
Happy Memorial day to everyone. I did my weekend BBQ yesterday, so I spent the day at the shop working on Abby.
I applied the Eastwood rust converter on Saturday so today was 48 hours later. I applied two coats of Eastwood rust encapsulator to the frame. The first coat was black and I brushed it on. I then used silver for the second coat. The second coat was sprayed on. Here are a few pics of the critical area of the front of an Airstream. The front hold down plate, crossmember and U channel.
Attachment 159570Attachment 159571
I cut the corroded flashing off. I taped the edge after I sliced my thumb and bled all over the place. So, like Frank writes about, my blood has been shed on this girl. The rest will all just fall into place.
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These photos are almost intimidating as you have done an incredible job cleaning up that area. Nice job !!
Richard and Della
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05-30-2012, 10:40 PM
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#404
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Always learning
1972 29' Ambassador
1962 19' Globetrotter
1951 21' Flying Cloud
Central
, Texas
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 2,881
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Fresh floor
Well, after I don't know how many years, Abby has a completely solid floor all the way around.
I still have to do some filling and fairing. I used 3/4" marine grade plywood coated with two coats of West epoxy for the three patch pieces. They are joined together with a cleat and fastened with screws into a bonding coat of epoxy. I installed the bolts through the U channel after a good dose of TremPro 626 to seal the holes.
__________________
Lance
Work is never done, so take time to play!
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05-31-2012, 04:45 AM
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#405
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Restorations done right
Commercial Member
1962 26' Overlander
1961 26' Overlander
Vintage Kin Owner
Currently Looking...
Baltimore
, Maryland
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 5,545
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Top
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You use 626? Seriously? I suddenly have a newer stronger found love of you Lance. You just stepped into AAA rating!
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06-06-2012, 06:57 PM
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#406
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Always learning
1972 29' Ambassador
1962 19' Globetrotter
1951 21' Flying Cloud
Central
, Texas
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 2,881
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Moving along in the right direction
Yes, Frank. I use the Trempro 626. The latest order I got has it in a gold tube that reads "Trempro/Vulkem". Good stuff. Thanks for the new love and AAA rating. I try to keep it on 13, like you.
I have the front frame all cleaned, repaired, rust converter applied and painted. I hate the pink insulation. This is where it belongs.
Here are some pics of the frame.
I have been getting a lot of help from my oldest son. It really helps.
Today I got the insulation attached to the underside of the floor.
Now to get the belly pan all fastened on and get the rub rail trim installed then seal everything in the U channel except for the factory drain holes.
The Marmoleum arrived last Friday. The glue did not. Some sort of mix up there, but the store got it all squared away. I have been getting Marmoleum from Jim at Eco-Wise in Austin. Really cool place with lots of green building solutions.
__________________
Lance
Work is never done, so take time to play!
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06-06-2012, 07:51 PM
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#407
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2 Rivet Member
1975 31' Sovereign
Valparaiso
, Indiana
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 41
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What type of insulation did you use below the floor?
__________________
Boilermaker
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06-06-2012, 07:54 PM
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#408
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2 Rivet Member
Tomball
, Texas
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 61
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Looks awesome. I agree totally with you on the insulation. I had done some homework in "tiny home building" before going airstream, and they recommend strongly against the pink stuff. One main point is the amount of condensation that is produced from drastic temp differences in/out of the small space ends up collecting in the spongey pink insulation and rotting the house from the inside out.
What type of insulation are you using, and where are you getting most of your supplies? It seems there are a hand full of specialty items used to deal with sealing the aluminum, and I would imagine that's mail order. But is the majority of this stuff available at loses/home depot?
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06-06-2012, 08:01 PM
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#409
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Rivet Master
Currently Looking...
Florissant
, USA
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 5,083
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Way to go Scotty for the assist!
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06-06-2012, 08:16 PM
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#410
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Always learning
1972 29' Ambassador
1962 19' Globetrotter
1951 21' Flying Cloud
Central
, Texas
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 2,881
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boilermaker
What type of insulation did you use below the floor?
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See below
Quote:
Originally Posted by TxBxSx
Looks awesome. I agree totally with you on the insulation. I had done some homework in "tiny home building" before going airstream, and they recommend strongly against the pink stuff. One main point is the amount of condensation that is produced from drastic temp differences in/out of the small space ends up collecting in the spongey pink insulation and rotting the house from the inside out.
What type of insulation are you using, and where are you getting most of your supplies? It seems there are a hand full of specialty items used to deal with sealing the aluminum, and I would imagine that's mail order. But is the majority of this stuff available at loses/home depot?
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Thanks!
The insulation I am using is two layers of 1" Dow Super Tuff-R polyiso. I got the idea from Frank. Thanks Frank! Timeless also uses it. It is very labor intensive, but I think it is well worth it.
I recently bought some Ecobatt from Knauff. It is what Airstream started using in 2013 models. It soaks up as much water, if not more than, the pink stuff. I'll be taking it back to Eco-Wise.
I get the majority of my supplies from Heights Lumber and Supply, a local Ace hardware store and lumber yard. I get most of my propane items from Smith and Smith Propane and hardware. I get my plumbing supplies from Hamm and McCreight, a local plumbing supply place. I like to buy local when I can. I only go to Lowe's and Home Depot if I can't get it from a local hometown store. I also get a lot of things from Fastenal, VTS and Out of Doors Mart. I get all of my electrical stuff from Randy at Bestconverter.com.
Good luck with your restorations.
__________________
Lance
Work is never done, so take time to play!
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06-06-2012, 08:18 PM
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#411
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Always learning
1972 29' Ambassador
1962 19' Globetrotter
1951 21' Flying Cloud
Central
, Texas
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 2,881
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soldiermedic
Way to go Scotty for the assist!
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Thanks, Steve.
Yes it is great to have help. He wants to learn some mechanical skills and earn some money to buy a car. I think after the summer is over, he'll be able to say his summer was well spent.
__________________
Lance
Work is never done, so take time to play!
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06-07-2012, 05:47 AM
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#412
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2 Rivet Member
1975 31' Sovereign
Valparaiso
, Indiana
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 41
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Thanks for the info on the insulation. Do you leave an airspace between the underside of the floor and the Tuff-R?
__________________
Boilermaker
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06-07-2012, 06:27 AM
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#413
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Always learning
1972 29' Ambassador
1962 19' Globetrotter
1951 21' Flying Cloud
Central
, Texas
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 2,881
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boilermaker
Thanks for the info on the insulation. Do you leave an airspace between the underside of the floor and the Tuff-R?
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I did not specifically attempt to have an airspace between the floor and the insulation, however there is a small 1/4"-3/8" gap just because of the outrigger and crossmember overhangs, e-bolts, sheet joining cleats etc. The polyiso is a far superior insulation than the fiberglass as installed from Airstream. We don't do a whole lot of cold weather camping down here, but we might need the high quality insulation on some trips up north in the future.
__________________
Lance
Work is never done, so take time to play!
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06-07-2012, 06:28 AM
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#414
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Patriotic
1973 23' Safari
North of Boston
, Massachusetts
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 4,546
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So, it looks like you epoxy both sides of the floor? no issue with the wood being able to "breath"?
I'm a little concerned with having the rigid foam tucked up tight against the bottom of the floor; if any water gets in there, its got no place to go. I was recently chatting with someone who had to re-do their re-done floor over again, because of a tank that was tucked up tight. something leaked from above, and water got down there, and... . I think I'm just going to skip the belly insulation altogether.
now, the walls...I'm still torn. (I was the call-in question on insulation on the VAP a couple of shows back. amazing coincidence that you were the call-in guest on that show!) It seemed like the consensus was "don't bother; just go with the pink, and make sure the holes are blocked so mice don't get in". Certainly would be easier. But I'm thinking, much like the issue of waterproofing the floor--you could say "just make sure the trailer doesn't leak". yeah, right. Certainly, we need to do the best we can, but we all know that at some point, water is going to find its way in. I think the same could be said for critters. At some point, something is going to wiggle loose, a gap will appear, and....
{sigh} decisions, decisions...
(irony: they stock the poly-iso in several sizes up here. Piles of it. its like tap water )
__________________
Air:291
Wbcci: 3752
'73 Safari 23'
'00 Dodge Ram 1500 4x4 QC
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06-07-2012, 06:39 AM
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#415
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Rivet Master
1981 31' Excella II
New Market
, Alabama
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 6,145
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I used a similar product called RMAX which is an aluminum backed foam. I used Liquid Nails to adhear it to the floor. I just used several blobs of it. This will leave a small gap between the foam and the floor and I hope this will let any trapped water out. I also did not tape the edges so water would have a place to leave. At some point, you have to stop agonizing over it and do something. I don't know if coating both sides of the wood is a good thing or not. I did find that you end up drilling holes in that newely sealed wood when you put the side wraps and belly trim back on. Now all that hard work sealing the wood is for not. It is hard to guarantee you will never get water in that wood no matter what you do.
Perry
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06-07-2012, 06:50 AM
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#416
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4 Rivet Member
1954 22' Flying Cloud
1954 25' Cruiser
2005 25' International CCD
Paradise
, Texas
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 407
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Abby's looking great Lance! I can't wait to see your Marmo.
__________________
Paul Mayeux
A&P Vintage Trailer Works, Inc.
AirForums #1565
WBCCI #7162
Heart of Texas Camping Unit
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06-07-2012, 07:36 AM
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#417
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2 Rivet Member
1973 27' Overlander
Talent
, Oregon
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Top
My Mom and Dad came down to visit for a few days, so I haven't been getting much done on Abby. Yesterday I removed all of the the old pink insulation from under Abby. I hate that stuff.
Today I applied a coat of ESP 155 epoxy from Progressive Epoxy as a sealer/primer to the interior floor. I removed all of the old "weld screws" holding the floor to the frame and drilled new holes and counter bored with a forester bit for new zinc coated elevator bolts. I then brushed and rolled on the epoxy. It is very watery as it is a solvent thinned epoxy. It soaks in very well. When the epoxy was no longer tacky, I installed the new elevator bolts.
Attachment 159389Attachment 159392
I'll sand it down smooth with some 180 and coat it with West System 105/206 epoxy, then fair the gaps and valleys with West epoxy thickened with low density fairing filler to a peanut butter consistency. This is not the cheap or fast way to fair a sub-floor. It is slow and expensive. It is, in my opinion, the best way to prep the sub-floor for sheet flooring. There are many ways to prep a sub-floor for sheet goods. This is the method I use. This is the method that Paul Mayeux, from A&P Vintage Trailer Works turned me on to. He has been using this method for over seven years now and has not had any problems with the Marmoleum cracking, breaking or coming unglued.
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Sorry for this late question, but what was the sub-floor surface prep before you applied the epoxy sealer?? Sander? Our '73 has lots of "gunk" from the old linoleum and wondering the best prep device.
Thanks in advance,
Richard and Della
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06-07-2012, 03:54 PM
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#418
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Vintage Kin
Fort Worth
, Texas
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 8,014
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Good descriptions, Top, and nice fielding of questions. The depth is appreciated. A worthy thread now bookmarked for this Vintage Kin owner.
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06-07-2012, 04:56 PM
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#419
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Always learning
1972 29' Ambassador
1962 19' Globetrotter
1951 21' Flying Cloud
Central
, Texas
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 2,881
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Chuck-I don't believe it will be an issue. The whole rear half of the floor is all new MGP and it is completely coated with epoxy. I haven't noticed any issues in the year since it has been done.
I don't think that using the pink stuff is a good idea in a TT. It is a compromise of price, performance and installation cost. I tend to lean more towards performance. I do think it is possible to have a trailer that is free of leaks, within reason. It takes good sealant, periodic inspections, constant maintenance and leak tests with a SealTech 430r.
Perry-I looked at the R-Max, but the minimum order was 48 sheets at $20 per sheet. I thought that since it is made here in Texas, I could get a good deal. I guess not. I taped the outer edges with foil tape but not the interior edges. There is a way for water to drain if it were to make its way between the sheets of insulation and the bottom of the sub-floor. I sealed the exposed areas of the bottom with epoxy to make sure the wood will withstand some water exposure.
Paul-Thanks! I can't wait to show her off at the RMVAC rally. Maybe. I probably should sign up and send in some money.
Richard and Della-I sanded the sub-floor with a belt sander before coating it with epoxy. There wasn't any adhesive on the floor. If you have a bunch of gunk, I would try heating it up with a heat gun and scraping off what you can. You may also try some adhesive remover. If you try to sand it off, you may melt the adhesive with the sander and make a bigger mess than you started with.
REDNAX-Thanks very much. I appreciate your kind words. I like to share knowledge, like you.
__________________
Lance
Work is never done, so take time to play!
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06-07-2012, 06:53 PM
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#420
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Rivet Master
Currently Looking...
Florissant
, USA
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 5,083
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Top
I do think it is possible to have a trailer that is free of leaks, within reason. It takes good sealant, periodic inspections, constant maintenance and leak tests with a SealTech 430r.
Paul-Thanks! I can't wait to show her off at the RMVAC rally. Maybe. I probably should sign up and send in some money.
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Yes indeed. The 430r is an excellent leak detection system, and it has worked great for several years since inception.
So you finally decided to head to the RMVAC rally ehh? You talked about it, but hadn't committed yet. Hope y'all have a great time.
Steve
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